338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

[madd0c]

Ok, I have searched (with the google search for Snipershide forums posted frequently here) and gone through about 50 threads, I also read the 338-50cal thread in the Depot in this forum.

I see TONS of people posting their pet loads, but I have not seen a good description of min/max loads listed as well as sources for the information.

I have many reloading manuals, the newest being the Sierra 5th edition manual, the Lee 2nd edition, and the Speer reloading manual #14. i also have the latest alliant reloading softcover that they give away with the powder purchase.

NONE of these has reloading data for the 338 Lapua Magnum and Reloder 25.

I have emailed Alliant, and called for 3 consecutive days and gotten only voicemail.

I have looked at the TWO loads listed on the reloadersnest database.

I have called Sierra Technical Support and talked to a tech who told me that they "have not tested this powder with their 250 and 300 SMKs in .338" but that in their discussions with alliant, that a max load of Reloder 22 is a medium load for Reloder 25 in the 338LM. He said to watch for pressure signs - not the most useful information I have gotten from Sierra.

I have done my research.

So, I hope no one gets offended that I ask this question. Does anyone have a source for tested Reloder 25 charges for this cartridge?

I have seen people say that 86gr is a good load for 300gr Lapua Scenar bullets, and i have seen people giving ranges of 86-91gr for 250gr Lapua Scenar bullets.

With the cost of the lapua brass and projectiles, I REALLY want to maximize my ladder testing so I am not wasting loadings on charges that are far to weak or that could be way over maximum safe loads. In my reading on here I have seen one ladder listing charges from 85 to 91gr for the 300gr SMK.

Once again, I have done the reading and the searches, just want to try to get some tested load data which is sorely missing from the alliant literature on this powder.

Thanks in advance,
madd0c

 

[sinister]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Those shooting Reloader 25 are shooting the loads they've tested.

Reloading manuals are general guidelines. Most of the big reloading components houses deliberately post loads low to reduce liability. Almost all will warn to use their data with caution as loads may be used in everything from vintage to new factory to custom guns.

The Lyman Reloading guides have been (in my limited reloading experience of 25 years) the most realistic with moderate starting pressures and VERY reliable upper load limits.

 

[madd0c]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Sinister, I don't have a Lyman (new or old).
So does the new lyman list any loads in 338 with Rel 25?

Thanks,
madd0c

 

[Creature]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Did you just copy my thread from a week or two ago? LOL I swear I had this same thread up. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1724129#Post1724129

I called Seirra within the past two weeks and the told me:RL-25 start is 81.5grs and max is 87grs. I used a 84grs of RL25 w/300gr SMK's a couple days ago and it didn't show any signs of pressure but it didn't shoot that well either.

 

[sinister]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Lyman 49th on page 266 for .338 LM.

250 Jacketed Soft Point
RX 25 start 86.0, max 93.0 (2937 fps)

275 Jacketed A-Frame
RX 25 start 83.0 max 88.0 (2751 fps)

300 Jacketed HPBT
RX25 start 81.5, max 87.0 (2681 fps)

These are lighter and slower than my personal loads.

 

[psinclair]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

My work up load data shows I used a max charge of 95.0 grains of RL25 with the 250 scenar. For the 300 grain scenar max was 91.0. My notes say on a 10 shot string the extreme spread was only 10 fps.(300gr) Velocity was 2705. I tried Retumbo next and settled on it as it gave me 100+ fps more than the RL25 did with the same pressure as well as being very uniform also. My barrel is a 28" Bartlein 1-9.75" 5R.

THESE ARE MAX LOADS.....WORK UP CAREFULLY!!

 

[btm_54]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

I have tried to find an accurate repeatable load with RL25 and 250 SMK's and 2250gr Hornady's with no joy.
I moved on to other powders.

 

[snewhouse]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

I use 89gn of rl-25 with 300 SMK Works just fine I shot a 194 of 200 @ 1000 yards with my ar 30 a couple weeks ago using it

 

[wildcard]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

I use RL-25 and 300 SMKs for my 338. It ONLY shoots well at 87 grains.. not 86.5 and not 87.5. Started to show pressure signs at 89 grains.

Go with Retumbo if you haven't already bought RL-25.

 

[madd0c]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Guys,
the last 5 posts are exactly what i was looking for. Especially the Lyman info from Sinister.

Unfortunately, due to the recommendations I received, I bought Rel-25 in bulk (alot of bulk), so I will give Retumbo a shot, but I need to find a decent Rel25 load for my gun to at least use up the stock on hand of rel25.

Thanks for the information, now I have a starting point.

madd0c

 

[snewhouse]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

If you are looking to dump the rl-25 you bought i would be interested

 

[psinclair]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madd0c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,
the last 5 posts are exactly what i was looking for. Especially the Lyman info from Sinister.

Unfortunately, due to the recommendations I received, I bought Rel-25 in bulk (alot of bulk), so I will give Retumbo a shot, but I need to find a decent Rel25 load for my gun to at least use up the stock on hand of rel25.

Thanks for the information, now I have a starting point.

madd0c </div></div>

Trust me your "stock" will go fast the way an LM chews through powder.....grin!

Good Luck!!

 

[j-huskey]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

My two GAP built 338's liked RL-25 in new cases, 89 grains for the 300 SMK (2750) and 91.5 for the 250 scenar (2900).
Once fired cases in a NEW lot of RL-25 was not so happy joy. 89 grains in this deal started some pressure signs that ARE NOT present with the other lot. Now we are looking at 2700 FPS, which is not acceptable.
Not to mention, the previous accuracy is not there either. Since I still have a hundred loaded rounds of the old lot, I can definitely see the difference shooting them back to back.

I will be trying Retumbo next, and like madd0c, I will be looking at the rest of the case of RL25 with a jaundiced eye. But it shoots well in the 300WM/240's.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhuskey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My two GAP built 338's liked RL-25 in new cases, 89 grains for the 300 SMK (2750) and 91.5 for the 250 scenar (2900).
Once fired cases in a NEW lot of RL-25 was not so happy joy. 89 grains in this deal started some pressure signs that ARE NOT present with the other lot. Now we are looking at 2700 FPS, which is not acceptable.
Not to mention, the previous accuracy is not there either. Since I still have a hundred loaded rounds of the old lot, I can definitely see the difference shooting them back to back.

I will be trying Retumbo next, and like madd0c, I will be looking at the rest of the case of RL25 with a jaundiced eye. But it shoots well in the 300WM/240's. </div></div>

J. Huskey-how the hell are you? I agree 100% all my 338LM's were barreled by GAP. I just installed a new GAP chambered BArtlein 1/9.5" on my AIAW in 338LM. For what ever reason RL25 TODAY- IS NOT the RL-25 that I stocked up on years ago.I posted a target on the Range report forum with older loads,since Sept.2008-I haven't been shooting 300SMK's since I got my AIAW with a 1/11" twist tube- when I switched to a faster twist barrel, I used them as a test last week.Then,with a fresh canister of RL25 loaded the identical load.

I have ALWAYS gotten less than .5 moa from 300-1000+yds with 87gr. RL25 with 300SMK. I had considered that a nice easy load-no pressure signs at all. Theses new runs suck. Compared to the older ammo-things weren't going well.Groups opened up dramatically.I did not see pressure signs though.

I had better luck with 100gr. of US 869 with Winchester Large Magnum primers.

For me has only happened with VARGET!

Fortunately, I have another 5 pounds from 2008. I hope this doesn't become a habit with RL25. At least there is other data that says otherwise and I ALWAYS trust what J HUSKEY has to say!! I guess I won't consider my load development finished-not quite yet...And still hope I can trust RL25.

 

[snewhouse]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

with my ar 30 (1-10 twist) I average 2779 fps with 89gn RL-25 and 300gn SMK in used Brass (2 to 4 firings) .

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

I fired 60 rounds yesterday-all new brass,with my older RL-25 and all was well.

 

[madd0c]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Got a note back from Alliant in response to my email. This is what they said exactly:

We have no data of our own for this cartridge so I will attach some
loads from outside sources. Thanks for your note and have a nice day.

Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company


He attached the following information:
180 gr Nosler Accubond
RL 19 powder start 90 grs @ 3253 fps max 97 grs @ 3418 fps

210 gr Swift Scirocco
RL 19 powder start 83 grs @ 2995 fps max 90 grs @ 3167 fps

250 gr Hornady SP
RL 25 powder start 86 grs @ 2775 fps max 93 grs @ 2937 fps

275 gr Swift A-Frame
RL 25 powder start 81.5 grs @ 2586 fps max 88 grs @ 2751 fps

300 gr Sierra HPBT
RL 25 powder start 81.5 grs @ 2549 fps max 87 grs @ 2681 fps


Same as that posted by sinister.

Thanks for the information guys. Even though the 338 LM seems to be a common caliber talked about here, I guess the powder and bullet manufacturers aren't seeing enough volume in 338LM to test this cartridge for their manuals. Maybe in the next revisions.

madd0c

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

This has been an issue since 2005 when I came here. RL25 was not in the Sierra manual. For a while they had stated use the weight of RL22's MAX load as a starting point for RL25 as you stated in your original post.

I routinely shoot 87-89 grains behind a 300SMK. ALL powders are temp sensitive to some degree. What will work at 25 degrees won't at 90 degrees.

What they stated isn't the do all and end all load of RL25. Depending on your chamber.The volume of your FIRED and sized brass is going to be greater than new brass. You seating depth,freebore and type of barrel all play a role.

Most people that shoot and load the 338LM have had experience loading other calibers and of course load development is no different with the 338LM. Some like RL25 others avoid it at all cost.The fact that it isn't listed in a loading manual doesn't mean a whole lot. 338LM is now listed C.I.P. and SAAMI-and the specs are different. But now that you have hard data from the powder maker-I take it you feel better using the powder?

When you asked for sources-"tested results"-I think statements from experienced shooter and reloaders that have documented their results with chronographs,actual performance and even ran the numbers in QuickLoad are just as valid as Reliant's response. There are always times that new powders hit the market after the manuals go to press.

Regardless of what stick you use-the 338LM delivers its best accuracy at very high pressure and velocity. Good Luck.

 

[esromvre]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

ok here is my jest on this...

I shot and learned some things over the last two weeks.

1 RL 25 at 87g with the 300g SMK MOLY can deliver 1/2 Moa at 600 yards on a clean barrel. I didn't have any pressure at all.

Talked to Sierra and they noted to me that the load data was what thay came up with in there chamber and barrel.

Mine will have no problem going hotter but I have no reason to kick a dead horse. 1/2 MOA in SD winds is just fine for me.

Do the work up just like all other loads and as was said earlier by Lt. Arclight.

Each rifle is different if you don't know that you are going to have a reloading surprise some day... THINK and stay SAFE

 

[308isgreat]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Interesting................

In my gun Reloader 25 at 94.0 grains, 250 gr Matchkings gives consistent .5 MOA. ES done during multiple chrono sessions was less than 30 fps with velocity at 2920 fps.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Just remember a max load today-might be 10% above max with another lot of powder.

 

[el gordo2]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Tag for some decent reference.

 

[TrapperT]

Re: 338 Lapua and Rel-25 loads

Thought I would chime in.

I tried RL25, Retumbo and eventually H1000 in the GAP built .338 using 300SMK's. I found that the RL25 did pretty good, but it also seemed to be inconsistent. In other words, a few shots would seem good then the next few would be out. I also had vertical at 1000 yards. I tried H1000 per Tom Sarver's recommendation. I immediately found my ES and SD shrink to near single digits. The vertical I saw at 1000 yards went away. I have shot his load out to 1 mile and I have found it to be really amazing.

I think Lt. Arclight summed it up pretty good; The RL25 today is not the same as it was years ago.

If I remember correctly, I use 91.5 gr H1000, Fed 215M and Boron Nitride Coated 300 SMK's in Lapua brass and push them at almost an even 2800fps. I load them all so the bullets are about .015" from the lands.

Tony