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338 lapua improved?

TEAMSENDIT

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Sep 22, 2008
    2,947
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    whidbey island
    I am looking for any info you may have on the 338 lapua improved. apparently my google fu sucks because i can't find shit on the chambering. so any info you may have will be more than helpful.

    thanks scott
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">What you will find is that there are literally Dozens of variations of the 338 LM IMP.
    Shoulder angles of 35* 37* 37 1/2*, and 40 degree.
    Total body taper from .010 to .016"
    Shoulder moved forward 30 to 50 Thou
    Shoulder left in original position
    and shoulder moved back for longer neck to give better throat life, supposedly.
    Some throat the barrel so the loaded round will fit in a magazine some throat them long to get more slow burn powder in the case for more velocity.
    And then there are variations of lead angle.
    Best thing to do is decide what you want to do and then call PTG order a chamber reamer and a sizing reamer and buil</span>d it your way.
    Dave</span>
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    I have a 338 Allen Express which has a 30 degree shoulder that has been pushed forward. I'm not sure how much. The case also has minimum body taper. What's really important is how it performs. Mine has a 26" barrel and with 100 grains of Retumbo, I can get 2950 fps with the 300 SMK and that is by no means a hot load. Mine is throated long and has the Seekins mag system. My COAL is 3.850". I have two 338 Lapuas, and the step up in performance with the 338 AX is significant. Kirby Allen built mine, and I would highly recommend him. He builds as fine of a firearm as anyone.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    I'm pretty sure Kirby's 338AX has a 35degree shoulder. A 35 Degree shoulder is what Kirby improves everything to.

    2950 with a 26in tube and only 100gr of Retumbo behind a 300SMK is OUTSTANDING. I know guys that struggle to get that with 2-3grains more powder and 28in tubes.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Dave Kiff at PTG is a great source for information. Give him a call and I'm sure he can answer just about all of your questions.

    Kirby Allen builds a fantastic rifle but is pretty much only accessible thru email but does reply to them very quickly.

    What questions did you have about a 338 Lapua improved?
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    I had one of Kirby's 338 AX's....My velocities ran 2975 with a 300smk using 103gr Retumbo in a 32" barrel. This was my max load in the shorter 3.70" oal.

    2950 is really fast in a 26" barrel.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Travis, I know your a big fan of Broughton 5C barrles. Does your 338AX have a 1-9.3 5C by chance????

    Getting ready to have a 338-378 rechambered to 338 Lapua Improved and we are using a 1-9.3 5C was hoping for some information from you if yours is a Broughton.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    It had a Lilja on it. I had Kirby build me a 7mm AM originally and the barrel went bad, so he made it into a 338 AX. I wanted to see what other builders work looked like, and Kirby is a friend, so I figured he would build it. In the meantime, I built our first Edge's, so I really didn't need the 338 AX anymore, as they were almost the same speed.

    The Broughton's generally are faster than other barrels from what I have experienced. Rock and Bartlein are pretty close, but the Broughton's just seem to run a little faster.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    That's what I understand as well. This will be a really good test because I already have a 338Lapua improved with a Lilja 1-10 and now I'm having this other 338 Lapua improved built using the same reamer but it's getting a 1-9.3 Broughton 5C The one with a Lilja is finished at 29inches and this new build with a 5C is probably going to finish at 28.

    In case your wondering. The Lilja barreled one is built on a BAT HRPIC single shot with a #14. Weighs about 18lbs scoped out. The new one with a 5C is getting a #5 built on a Accumark platform and should be around 10.5-11lbs.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    well what is the most widely used version of the improved. i will be building a single shot that will hopefully be around 10lbs without optics or bipod.does anybody make reasonable price dies for the 338 improved.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Sorry. Right you are on the 35 degree shoulder for the 338 AX. I just shoot the thing!

    I was quite pleased with the velocity achieved with the 26" barrel on my 338 AX. Like I mentioned, it is not an overly hot load. I think the longer throat and longer OAL largely accounts for the extra velocity. Could be just a fast barrel too. I don't know, but I'll take it! I also shoot at 6000 feet which could give me some extra speed too.

    Concerning barrel length, I don't think you get as much gain in velocity by going so long as a lot of people think. I use most of my rifles for hunting too, so I hate long barrels. I think they are too cumbersome. I am having Kirby build a lighter weight 338 Allen Express with just a 25" barrel. It will be interesting to see what kind of velocities can be achieved with it. I'm betting that it doesn't give much up.

    If you decide to go the 338 Allen Express route, Kirby can build you a FL sizer die. You can use a regular 338 Lapua seater die. I can't remember what I paid for the sizing die, but it wasn't unreasonable.

    Kirby also has formed and headstamped brass available for the 338 Allen Express made by Jamison.

    I would think you could get in the 10 lb range pretty easily. The Seekins mag system is really nice for the 338 Lapua Improved round as it allows overall lengths of 3.95". That way you can go with a repeater and not handicap yourself by having to jam your bullet way into the powder column so that you can fit the cartridge in the mag.

    I'm hoping for around 10 lbs bare rifle which includes Kirby's new Raptor receiver, a Lilja 25" #5 contour fluted barrel, Seekins DM, and a McMillan A1-3 stock. The rifle should be completed any day now, so I'll let you know.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    i might have a reamer sitting around if you need one.
    PTG 338 Lapua Rogue 37 dg .364 nk
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Kirby does build a nice rifle. I to believe that the short OAL was limiting performance. Hornady makes his FL sizing dies for him...at least thats what mine was. I to use my rifles for hunting, but a 30" barrel doesn't bother me to much for my style of hunting. You should get that weight pretty easily with your new build. My 7WSM parts weigh 8.2lbs with a T2, Fluted varmint contour 26" barrel, Seekins DBM, R Bros Rogue action and rail.


    Scott,

    Before I built our Edges, I looked at the 338 Imp. There were so many different versions that die manufacturers wanted a reamer print, then a premium to build the dies. Hornady wasn't doing their custom die program at that point.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    I have a 338AX and it shoots the 300SMK at 2950FPS with 101 grains of Ramshot Magnum with a 26 inch tube. Not a hot load in a any weather. It has Kirby's PK brake on it and a USO scope which brings it in at about 18 pounds with ammo, bipod, and the Manners T4 stock. I haven't tried the Retumbo Powder or the new 300 grain Berger Hybrids yet to see if we can get a little more velocity.

    Kirby does build a hell of a rifle!! If you really want it to scoot..use the new 338 Allen Magnum based off the 408 Cheytac Case. 300 SMK at 3300FPS out of a 30 inch tube. I shot one this weekend and it ROCKS!!!
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Diggler I knew it!!!! You are crazy.

    The only thing to be worried about is the price of the reamer and dies. I have heard it dan be a pain to get them and when you do they will be an arm and a leg money wise.

    Cool round though. Seems like it would be a efficient round pushing those Bergers you got.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Until they fix the "nose slump" issue with the Berger 300's I doubt they will hold up to the FPS of just about any of the 338 Lapua improved's. The Berger 300's, so far, seem to have a FPS cealing of about 2850ish. When pushed faster they go from .5 inch groups @100yds to 5+inch groups @100yds.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tazman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 338AX and it shoots the 300SMK at 2950FPS with 101 grains of Ramshot Magnum with a 26 inch tube. Not a hot load in a any weather. It has Kirby's PK brake on it and a USO scope which brings it in at about 18 pounds with ammo, bipod, and the Manners T4 stock. I haven't tried the Retumbo Powder or the new 300 grain Berger Hybrids yet to see if we can get a little more velocity.

    Kirby does build a hell of a rifle!! If you really want it to scoot..use the new 338 Allen Magnum based off the 408 Cheytac Case. 300 SMK at 3300FPS out of a 30 inch tube. I shot one this weekend and it ROCKS!!! </div></div>

    Do you use a cheytac action then I take it?
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Any action built big enough for the 408 case will work. I don't know who all builds one but I know BAT, Lawton and Stiller make actions to fit the 408 case.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Yeah I am about to do the group buy, and I have a 29.5" barrel right now thats finished in a .338 lapua, wonder how hard it would be to say cut it back 1/2" and re-ream it into a 338 magnum allen. Cause that sounds like fun
    smile.gif
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: propulsionclimbing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has a 26" barrel and with 100 grains of Retumbo, I can get 2950 fps with the 300 SMK and that is by no means a hot load.</div></div>

    <span style="font-style: italic">Please dont take this wrong</span>, but have you ever checked your chrono against other chronos? Or tested your load/rifle with other chrono?

    Just made me wonder, 300gr/3000fps/26" doesent happen without pressure.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Travis, I know your a big fan of Broughton 5C barrles. Does your 338AX have a 1-9.3 5C by chance????

    Getting ready to have a 338-378 rechambered to 338 Lapua Improved and we are using a 1-9.3 5C was hoping for some information from you if yours is a Broughton. </div></div>

    My 338 AI that Nate Dagley built has 30" Broughton 5c 9.3 twist. I kept my velocity around 2850fps to prolong brass life. I use 95 grains of Retumbo. Any velocity over 2900 fps will leave extractor mark on the brass, at least with my rifle.
    Picture177-2.jpg
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    What kind of accuracy were you getting with your hotter loads? That's a little surprising you were getting pressure signs that early. Ever try any US869? It tends to not pressure out as early. It's veryyyyyyy slowwwwwwww burning
    smile.gif
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    DF I'm curious what O.A.L you're loading those out to? Are they kinda short, maybe loaded to mag length around 3.600 or something???
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    I decided to go with Kirby's 338AX for several reasons.
    1. Made in Montana! The greatest place on earth.
    2. Can buy the dies directly from him without having to go through the hassele of a resizing reamer and custom die.
    3. You can either buy his jamison barss, or he will firefrom Lapua brass for you. I didn't wnat to waste any barrel life, and the reasonable fee he charges was worth the saving of 100 rounds down the tube.

    I went with a Stiller single shot action, Manners T2, and a 30" Lilja Barrel (made in Montana!) ;-D.

    propulsionclimbing... You said yours should be done very soon. Bet your excited! Do you mind me asking how long you have been waiting? I know he is a VERY busy smith, and wait times are usually pretty high. I am a very impaitient person and not sure if I will have any fingernails or hair left by the time I get mine, :)
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DF I'm curious what O.A.L you're loading those out to? Are they kinda short, maybe loaded to mag length around 3.600 or something??? </div></div>

    Actually it's a single shot. The bullet seated 3.797 on average. This is .006 off the land. At 2925 fps, I can see a slight, barely visible extractor mark. I think the Lapua brass can handle it but I want to prolong the brass life a bit. Nate, the rifle builder, told me that with H1000, he was able to push the 300 SMK to 2950 fps.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of accuracy were you getting with your hotter loads? That's a little surprising you were getting pressure signs that early. Ever try any US869? It tends to not pressure out as early. It's veryyyyyyy slowwwwwwww burning
    smile.gif
    </div></div>

    3 shot at 110 yards
    Picture174-1.jpg


    5 shot with 250 SMK at 110 yards
    Picture174-3.jpg



    500 yards 3 shot
    Target001.jpg


    525 yards 3 shot
    Target021.jpg

    Target023.jpg


    My 1000 yards score last May with this rifle
    MemorialDayshoot016.jpg

    MemorialDayshoot017.jpg
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    DF, that's to bad it doesn't shoot better. Man I really feel for you with groups that bad...
    smile.gif


    Mine is a single shot too but it's throated a little longer. With a 300SMK I am almost out to 3.9 before I touch the lands. It's truely amazing how well these things shoot. Now if I could just figure out how to get it from 18lbs down to about 10lbs but not give up anything else. lol
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Mine is a 35 degree shoulder. 27 inch Broughton 9.3 twist. 300gr pills will run at 2920fps with Retumbo.

    Regardless of the extra performance, I like the convenience of the straight 338LM.

    Diggler, if you ever get down this way, let me know. I'd be more than happy to meet up and sling lead. You can try the 338LM Imp and compare it to the 338LM.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you use a cheytac action then I take it?</div></div>

    Vince at Vin-tech builds his own actions now-they are called "Jaugernaughts"- Spelling? It accepts the 408 round and kirby built everthing else. This is the first one I think and they will soon be produced. Vince is bulding me a action now for a new project. I may have Kirby build me a 338 like this to. I would think 3400+FPS may be possible with the right 300 grain projectile.

    I just shot my 338AX over my new Ohler Chrono and it showed 2938FPS at 45 degrees F outside tempature. This is out of the 26 inch tube.
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Brand, next time you come up here we need to go to Sac or meet at Colinga and drill some 1000 yard 338 targets. I have your big boy Biathalon Sling just about ready. Should ship tomorrow
     
    Re: 338 lapua improved?

    Sounds like a plan. We will see if I can't make an ass of myself.
     
    Well this post is 10 years old anything new out there guys anymore new loads