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Rifle Scopes 3gun optic selection....?

R

rickey

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 17, 2011
137
1
35
La Porte, TX
Im looking for a new scope to use in three gun competitions. Ive never shot three gun before so its all new to me. most to all use 1-4 or 1-6 from leupold, vortex,
swarovski, ect.... However Im having a hard time settling for a 6 powered scope that I may have to shoot out to 600yards with.... It may just be me but I hate shooting at 100yards with a 10power or less scope.... so my question is what do you think about something like a zeiss 2-8x42 or 3-12x50 or bushnell 2.5-16x42 all are under 1400 dollar price range of the vortex.... I do plan on doing a side red dot eventually so the low power isn't a big issue. At least I dont thing it will be.... ;>
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

1-6 vortex would be a super choice.. You will use 1x more than anything. Make sure the illumination is good regardless of what you end up with

Can't stress how important it is to haveb1x...
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

thats kinda what i was thinking... definitely going to have illumination! Just wasnt sure how many long targets there really are. Also when I watch videos that always seams to be what slows everyone down... what do you think about an IOR 1.5-8x26...?
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

interested... price? and when are they suppose to come out? funny I was just on thir sight looking at their other scopes ;>
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I'd recommend you shoot irons or with a red dot for a couple of matches to see what you like. Look through some competitors scopes (with permission of course) and enjoy shooting in irons or limited division. This will help you get the fundamentals of your gun down and allow you to know what you want for 3-gun. I've been shooting 3-gun off and on for a few years now and thought I needed the best right off the bat. Glad I waited, as what I thought I wanted, would have drove me nuts. I've used nothing but a 16" carbine gas AR with an EOTech on it for 3 years.

I have a SS 1-6x on order and I'm building an 18" gun now. For major matches I shoot heavy, and use a 1-4 or 1-6. 6x is more than enough to get you to 500+yds in 3 gun. 1x is way more important, and reticule choice is even more critical. Quick target acquisition is EVERYTHING. Illumination is nice, but as long as you don't lose the reticule, you'll be fine. Also, I think FFP vs SFP in the low power 3gun style scopes is over rated. I'll list a few scopes to look at, that I've seen a lot of.

Meopta ZD 1-4x (great optic, under rated)
SS 1-4x
Vortex 1-6x (new addition, nice)
Swaro 1-6 Z6i (expensive)
Burris XTR 1-4x (see these a lot, not too expensive)
Leupold VX-6 multigun (good for 3-gun, newer scope)
Leupold VX-R Patrol (affordable)
Vortex Viper PST 1-4 (get the capped version)

I'm tired and know I'm leaving a couple good ones out, but don't get too wrapped up in it. Pick a reticule that works well for you and go. A low power close to 1x is important, but true 1x isn't that important to ME. Stay out of Tac Optics in major matches, all the pros are there, and the competition is nuts. The smaller divisions are a lot of fun. (I like Tac Heavy)
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

If you add a side red dot in addition to a scope it will put you in open class most of the time, something to think about.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Leupold VX-R Patrol with TMR reticle 3-9x
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Thanks 33 shooter I thought about doing that but figured the red dot would be a good portion of a scope and I do like magnification like I said... If I ran irons/ red dot how far are the targets do they still go out to 600 or do they stay in closer? Also the Swarovski is too much in mu opinion and so is the bender... If I planed to spend that much I'd be looking at other 1-10 scopes. I'd like to stay under 1000 but would probably go up to 1500. But it would have to be worth the differance. Thanks again for all the help!
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I'm saving up for the Vortex!

3-Gun is a different animal. You don't need high magnification to make successful hits. It's usually one hit on steel or two hits ANYWHERE on paper. You aren't splitting X's.

The farthest shot I've taken so far was at the Blue Ridge Mountain 3-Gun match. If I recall correctly, I think it was right around 500. Most matches are well inside 300 yards. BRM3G is an oddity, there were even pistol shots past 100 yards...

I run a NF 1-4 right now and feel like the Vortex 1-6 is a significant improvement for a 3-Gun scope. I'm not sure that jumping up to a 1-8 is a smart move just yet. I'll give it a while and check some out at matches. It's taken quite some time to produce one, there may be some issues post release, but maybe not. Part of the fun in the game is always tweaking your set up...
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 33shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd recommend you shoot irons or with a red dot for a couple of matches to see what you like. Look through some competitors scopes (with permission of course) and enjoy shooting in irons or limited division. This will help you get the fundamentals of your gun down and allow you to know what you want for 3-gun. I've been shooting 3-gun off and on for a few years now and thought I needed the best right off the bat. Glad I waited, as what I thought I wanted, would have drove me nuts. I've used nothing but a 16" carbine gas AR with an EOTech on it for 3 years.

I have a SS 1-6x on order and I'm building an 18" gun now. For major matches I shoot heavy, and use a 1-4 or 1-6. 6x is more than enough to get you to 500+yds in 3 gun. 1x is way more important, and reticule choice is even more critical. Quick target acquisition is EVERYTHING. Illumination is nice, but as long as you don't lose the reticule, you'll be fine. Also, I think FFP vs SFP in the low power 3gun style scopes is over rated. I'll list a few scopes to look at, that I've seen a lot of.

Meopta ZD 1-4x (great optic, under rated)
SS 1-4x
Vortex 1-6x (new addition, nice)
Swaro 1-6 Z6i (expensive)
Burris XTR 1-4x (see these a lot, not too expensive)
Leupold VX-6 multigun (good for 3-gun, newer scope)
Leupold VX-R Patrol (affordable)
Vortex Viper PST 1-4 (get the capped version)

I'm tired and know I'm leaving a couple good ones out, but don't get too wrapped up in it. Pick a reticule that works well for you and go. A low power close to 1x is important, but true 1x isn't that important to ME. Stay out of Tac Optics in major matches, all the pros are there, and the competition is nuts. The smaller divisions are a lot of fun. (I like Tac Heavy) </div></div>

Add the Kahles 1-6 to the list. Daniel Honrner just picked one up and will be running it next year I hear.

Kahles rifle scopes
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Look into the Weaver also. Hells Canyon Armory who is a vendor here has them for a Tad over 600.00. Heard good things about them and thinking i am going to get 1 for a Seekins build with the 3 sided rail i am doing. I have never used any of these types scopes and think at the price and what i have heard it will be a good 1 for me to start on. I also am thinking it may double and work good for close up coyote hunting in the woods.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I have seen both march and kahles but are they really worth the price differance....? I have no doubt on the higher 5-25 scopes but can u really see a big differance? The price jump is almost twice as much... I understand that they maybe a little bit clearer and plan on buying a premier 5-25 one day but I'm not sold on the lower magnification scopes over 1500 range. Am I missing something? Do they have better glass and even bigger field of view?
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I'm sure Horner runs what he's given. Perks for being the fastest man with a gun. He had a Leupold MK6 1-6x at the FB3G. That Kahles looks nice, but it's more expensive than a swaro.

Most "local" non prize table matches will have shots as far as 300-400 Maybe more on occasion. The major matches (Rocky Mountain, FB3G, TXMG, BRM3G etc) will have shots to 500-550. You'll spend most of your time shooting up close with fast transisitions.

Shooting irons does not change your stage design as you still have the same targets, but puts you in a separate class that's smaller. More importantly it will let you figure out the rules, and find what works and what you will like.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

For what it's worth, the Vortex 1-6x and Leupold MK6 1-6x are the nicest low powered variables I've seen for the money. The Vortex is a LOT of scope for the money!
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

USO's 1-8x with the red dot is really close to coming out. It will be worth a look for sure.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

That's kinda what I was thinking.... Just curious as to why so many pay allot more for the other brands... I like more power but not sure a 1-10 from USO march or any other are worth the extra 1000+ And I love more power! ; ) Can anyone conferm or deny that the few elite brands march, bender, kahles, Swarovski, ect have a better eye relief field of view or just better picture then say the vortex or leupold?
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Well, for 3 gun there is a point of diminished returns in my opinion. If I were to make a single recommendation, I'd recommend the Vortex 1-6x. Personally, I like the swaro but think its overpriced. That's the main reason I recommend staying in limited or irons for awhile. But, the Vortex is awesome!
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

33shooter does the iron class shoot the same targets and distances as the tack ops or open class?
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's kinda what I was thinking.... Just curious as to why so many pay allot more for the other brands... I like more power but not sure a 1-10 from USO march or any other are worth the extra 1000+ And I love more power! ; ) <span style="font-weight: bold">Can anyone conferm or deny that the few elite brands march, bender, kahles, Swarovski, ect have a better eye relief field of view or just better picture then say the vortex or leupold?</span> </div></div>

I had a guy coming in to buy the vortex.....he left with the swaro. Here's his take on it:

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?92908-Swarovski-Z6i
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I still shoot 3gun on occasion and the 1 to 6 type scopes and 1 to 8 are the ideal scopes with day light illumination. The Swarovski 1-6 Z6i is a hot ticket in 3gun. Whatever magnified optic you get you really need the 1x as you will use that the most.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Thanks Chris. But it seams like he has more money then I do.... Not many people go to buy a scope and then are able to change their mind and add another 1000.... I may just have to find one at a local dealer and see for myself.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Chris. But it seams like he has more money then I do.... Not many people go to buy a scope and then are able to change their mind and add another 1000.... I may just have to find one at a local dealer and see for myself.
</div></div>

No prob. I just wanted to throw the information out there.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Does anyone have experience with the <span style="text-decoration: underline">new</span> IOR-Valdada 1-10x26mm <span style="text-decoration: underline">DUAL</span> focal plane illuminated scope with their X1 reticle? It is so backordered that they pulled mention of it off their website.

Comments?

I am also curious what owners of the Leupold Mark 8 1.1-8x24mm with Horus H27D reticle (MSRP $5749.99 http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-8-riflescopes/mark-8-1-1-8x24mm-cqbss-m5b1-front-focal/ ) think of that scope.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

If money isn't a factor I'd definitely go with a Swarovski z6i or wait to see the new US Optics with the red dot. Both are gonna run you over 2 grand.

I bought the Vortex 1-6x for 3 gun and it's great for the price. Red dot is very bright and is quick to pick up but I will say the thing is pretty heavy and the eye relief is a bit long (You're gonna need a mount that places the scope forward a bit). I would definitely recommend it though if you're looking for a 3 gun optic that doesn't sacrifice much over the big boys for about half the price.

Swarovski z6i hands down the winner over the Vortex Razor though. I can't speak much for the eyebox of the 1-6x (I've looked through a z6 3-18x50mm which was VERY forgiving) but it's way lighter which is definitely a plus in 3 gun. But again it's almost double the price of the Vortex. Like they say, you get what you pay for.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

good question nukes. I to saw that scope and was curious. If I did end up spending that much on one of these scopes I would be looking really hard at that scope. pretty much same cost and you jet 4 extra power settings as well as the dual focal plane. Isn't the new uso suppose to be dual plane or did I read that on something else...?
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Here is just one of the reviews I found on the ior. I've seen better reviews but it gives you a little insight to the scope... The writer says that premier may have a low power optic which makes me happy. I have looked through their higher powered scopes and like them better the night force bender and vortex... Time will tell.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php...10x26sfp&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Few other reviews I read say its not a true 1x more of a 1.2-1.5.... And that its heavy. I liked that their were two different illuminations but that added allot more weight and cost went up...
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I've shot matches with a Leupold MK4 1.5-5x. True 1x is over rated in my opinion. At the same time, I think that a 1-10 would be too much. If you're shooting a Tac match it could be handy, I just don't think it's necessary. I have never seen a target that a 4x couldn't handle for 3-gun. Irons only guys clean targets just fine in 3-gun. Only guns I see with large scopes like that are open class, and they have offset red dots too.

That's the main reason I recommend making a few matches to see what you want because its easy to get carried away in optic selection.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

That's the main reason I recommend making a few matches to see what you want because its easy to get carried away in optic selection. [/quote said:
Yea that's an understatement.... It's mind blowing what some shoot with and are willing to spend! For 50 dollar red dot to 6000 dollar scope it's crazy!
Click to expand...
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I'm gonna disagree with your comment about a true 1x being overrated. I've owned a 1.5-6x and i sold it for specifically that reason. While your eye can still pick up 1.5x fairly quick, if you're using both eyes open, it takes your brain half a second to process the different image your other eye is seeing. Definitely slower than a true 1x. Not to say it's useless, just slower and in 3 gun its a game of speed.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

Meopta1-4 ZD is a damned good option.
True -1x
Fantastic glass
Daytime bright illumination
Holdover points good out to 5-600 yards

Fast up close, great glass / holdover points to get you out to 5-600
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaydoski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm gonna disagree with your comment about a true 1x being overrated. I've owned a 1.5-6x and i sold it for specifically that reason. While your eye can still pick up 1.5x fairly quick, if you're using both eyes open, it takes your brain half a second to process the different image your other eye is seeing. Definitely slower than a true 1x. Not to say it's useless, just slower and in 3 gun its a game of speed. </div></div>

I figured someone would.

I would say its reticule dependent. I could barely see the reticule of the FFP weaver 1-5x on 1x while the circle of the SFP MK4 1.5-5 popped up easy for me. I used a USO 1.5-6x that I couldn't find quickly to save my life. The quickest scope I've used was the Meopta ZD 1-4x, it's really a great scope.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?opti...ws&Itemid=4 ...</div></div>

Very useful. Thank you for linking it.

It is somewhat amusing to see that not only software manufacturers tout their "vaporware." Where are these US Optics and Premier "vaporware" scopes?

I'd like to see a comparison of available reticles, including the size of the dots. The reviewer's preferences are not my own. I prefer the "Christmas tree" and appreciate that the large horizontal stadia do not intrude into the central axis. Too, while the reviewer cannot imagine a use for a 1-10x scope, a 1-10x seems well-suited to precision AR platforms, esp. in 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. After all, the world and its opportunities and threats don't stop at 3-Gun distances.

 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I have a Z6i with a BRT reticle on my JP SCR-11 and a Leupold MK6 1-6 on a JP LRP-07 and I like both optics as they are daylight bright even here in the Texas sun. I haven't used the new Mk6 enough yet but it initially works pretty well for me. The eyebox is forgiving and the scope is compact. I use 1x more than 6x in multi gun so I agree to stay away from the 1.5 as it isn't as fast on the close up targets. The FOV on both of the scopes are great but most of my long shots are on 4x to keep my FOV larger so I can see more targets downrange. I believe in "buy once, cry once" so get the most scope you can afford and enjoy your purchase.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I have been using my Eotech at our matches. Our range is small and we only have a few shots that exceed 25 yards. I have a Trijicon 1-4x24 in the safe for a real 3 gun match!! I am going to try my Aimpoint PRO at the next nite match. I think the smaller reticle set on low will aid in aquiring targets faster. IDPA cardboard silhouette can be hard to see at night!
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

looked through a USO 1.8-10 today and I can definitely say that I want a true 1 power. Just inside the store I could tell it would be more confusing. Nice and clear scope but it was heavy! I just havent been impressed with any USO scope ive looked at... just my opinion. Meopta looks interesting but I would lean toward the vortex and have the extra power if needed... going to look at the bender and swarovski just to see what all the hype is about.
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

I looked at the swaro 1-6 illuminated today and really like the glass as well as the features! between vortex glass and swaro they really are very close! I believe the swaro let in a little bit more light but cant be sure since they werent side by side they were at two separate stores.... but the conditions were the same overcast and raining... I really loved the illumination switch on the swaro the daylight off and night setting is awesome! I didnt use the scope on a gun but could really see the benefit of the illumination switch when going from 1 power to 6. When you have it on the daylight setting and scale up to 6 power the red dot is blurry and pretty big. By having this switch you could flip the illumination as you change power. I really liked this feature and believe this is where vortex could improve.... This is my opinion just by looking at them in the store. If I had them to actually play with for a few days my opinion might change if i found a good setting for the full range of power during the bright of day. I also preferred the reticule in the swaro over the vortex. My biggest dislike about the vortex is that there was a fisheye effect when on 1 power. this made the objects seam further away then they really are. Also the rest of the scope had a deformed look to it. Much like you would see with a fisheye lens....? However if i adjusted the power just slightly above 1 all of this went away.......... then the lens quality was just as good as the swaro. Is this common or not??? Ive read so many great things about this scope and vortex as a whole im not sure if this might have been a defective scope.... As of right now I do like the swaro better but dont think It worth the extra grand if the vortex didnt have the fishbowl effect on 1 power......

I would love for any vortex owners to chime in and let me know if what i saw is common or not.

Thanks again
 
Re: 3gun optic selection....?

sorry I forgot to mention the optics dealer who sells swaro also said he tested the vortex but decided not to carry them because they didnt hold their zero.....? he also said that the one he had fogged up on him during the third range test... he admitted that maybe he got a bad scope but it was enough to discourage him from selling their product. I understand they have a lifetime warranty but how often does this happen..? I would think not that often due to how many people rave about vortex but does this have more to do with vortexs price point?
 
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