40 S@W COAL

[GoatLD259]

Good Morning Hide,

Before I start reloading 40 S@W, I need to find a proper COAL. When I had a friend of mine find a COAL for my rifle, he put a touch of blue loctite on the bullet, inserted bullet inside the case long so the bullet will touch the lands, then inserted the whole cartridge inside chamber and closed the bolt slowly. Then waited about a half hour for it to dry.

Through my research, I plan to start .015" off the lands for my rifle load in 6.5 CM.

Will this same method work for for finding a COAL for a pistol? How far off the lands should I be for my pistol?

If it helps, my pistol is a Tanfoglio Limited Custom Xtreme.

Thank you

Goat

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

No. Read your reloading manual which will tell you what COAL to use for which caliber.

 

[GoatLD259]

The reloading manual I have says max OAL is 1.135. So anything under that will be safe and fire good groupings? It thought I developed a load based on what my pistol likes.

Sorry for the questions, I am just getting into reloading and am learning.

Goat

 

[culater]

The reloading manual I have says max OAL is 1.135. So anything under that will be safe and fire good groupings? It thought I developed a load based on what my pistol likes.

Sorry for the questions, I am just getting into reloading and am learning.

Goat

Do more reading on the 40. It’s a high pressure round. If the bullet sits to deep in the case your asking for trouble. Don’t ask how I know. I would load only 155-165 gr bullets. It keep the pressure down. Also if you get any range brass you need to bulge bust them with a lee die. It will get rid of the Glock bulge that you will run into all the time. If you do buy new brass buy starline brass. Very good brass an thicker at the head of the case.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I don't worry about distance to lands for a pistol cartridge. For my competition pistols I load to 1.2" and for factory pistols I load to what the reloading spec says. (1.135" in your example)

 

[GoatLD259]

I don't worry about distance to lands for a pistol cartridge. For my competition pistols I load to 1.2" and for factory pistols I load to what the reloading spec says. (1.135" in your example)

Thank you for the response. The reloads will be for my competition pistols. Just to clarify, you're speaking in terms of 40 S&W correct?

Also, do I need to get a bulge bust set up to reload these?

Goat

 

[GoatLD259]

And I am reading that bulge busting is only needed if fired out of a Glock?

Lee Precision, Inc.. APP Bulge Buster Kit

The Lee APP Bulge Buster Kit restores free function of rimless cases that have low base bulges. Low base bulges usually occur from chambers that do not fully support the cartridge or cases resized in carbide dies from manufacturers other than Lee. These cases show a noticeable stop ring near the...

leeprecision.com

This link says "from chambers that do not fully support the cartridge or cases resized in carbide dies from manufacturers other than Lee." What does it mean the cartridge is not fully supported by the chamber?

Thank you

Goat

 

[culater]

Also, do I need to get a bulge bust set up to reload these?

Goat

Yes if your getting range brass. If getting new brass then No

L

 

[ShtrRdy]

Thank you for the response. The reloads will be for my competition pistols. Just to clarify, you're speaking in terms of 40 S&W correct?

Also, do I need to get a bulge bust set up to reload these?

Goat

Yes. What is your competition pistol? A 2011 type?

You'll want to check to see that it can handle the 1.2" cartridge. Take the barrel out and drop the cartridge into the chamber the base of the case should be about even with the breach end of the barrel.

You may not have to do anything with the bulge. Take a few of the worst bulged cases you can find, run them through the resizing die, and then try to drop them into the chamber of the removed barrel. They should drop in without any resistance.

 

[culater]

The Glock bulge

If you don’t take of that then you get the Glock Smile which is no fun

 

[GoatLD259]

Yes if your getting range brass. If getting new brass then No

View attachment 7794030L

Thank you for the photo, that helps. I will check when I get a chance. Will a case that needs to be run through a bulge buster still fit in a case gauge? Such as this one,

100-Hole 40 S&W Extra Large & Long Hundo Chamber Checker Cartridge Case Gauge by Shockbottle

100-Hole 40 S&W Extra Large & Long Hundo Chamber Checker Cartridge Case Gauge by Shockbottle

benstoegerproshop.com

 

[GoatLD259]

Yes. What is your competition pistol? A 2011 type?

You'll want to check to see that it can handle the 1.2" cartridge. Take the barrel out and drop the cartridge into the chamber the base of the case should be about even with the breach end of the barrel.

You may not have to do anything with the bulge. Take a few of the worst bulged cases you can find, run them through the resizing die, and then try to drop them into the chamber of the removed barrel. They should drop in without any resistance.

The firearm I am reloading for is a Tanfoglio Limited Custom Xtreme.

 

[918v]

Good Morning Hide,

Before I start reloading 40 S@W, I need to find a proper COAL. When I had a friend of mine find a COAL for my rifle, he put a touch of blue loctite on the bullet, inserted bullet inside the case long so the bullet will touch the lands, then inserted the whole cartridge inside chamber and closed the bolt slowly. Then waited about a half hour for it to dry.

Through my research, I plan to start .015" off the lands for my rifle load in 6.5 CM.

Will this same method work for for finding a COAL for a pistol? How far off the lands should I be for my pistol?

If it helps, my pistol is a Tanfoglio Limited Custom Xtreme.

Thank you

Goat

No. Thats not how you find the coal for your pistol. Use the coal recommended by the bullet manufacturer. Make sure that coal works in your chamber without sticking.

 

[MiniB]

And I am reading that bulge busting is only needed if fired out of a Glock?

Lee Precision, Inc.. APP Bulge Buster Kit

The Lee APP Bulge Buster Kit restores free function of rimless cases that have low base bulges. Low base bulges usually occur from chambers that do not fully support the cartridge or cases resized in carbide dies from manufacturers other than Lee. These cases show a noticeable stop ring near the...

leeprecision.com

This link says "from chambers that do not fully support the cartridge or cases resized in carbide dies from manufacturers other than Lee." What does it mean the cartridge is not fully supported by the chamber?

Thank you

Goat

Some older model Glock barrels were made with a weird chamber that didn't support the entire circumference of the web of the case (I only know this of 40 and not 9 or 45). This resulted in a bulge at the base of the case that sort of looks like a smile or beer belly on one side (culater just posted a good pic above). Regular sizing dies don't quite size down far enough to reform the bulge properly, so the bulge buster kits were made to help. I like the Redding kit because it comes with a cool shell holder and you screw a big soda bottle. You could be a pimp and get one of the new automated roll sizers to deal with the bulge if you are rolling in money.
As a USPSA competitor, I either roll size (a friend has one), or use my Redding push through bulge buster for consistency and security (just to be sure that every case is the same, and to reduce the possibility of a jam). Roll size or push-through before you "size, flare, prime etc.".
A bulged case won't fit into the case gauge; rollsized or push-through brass rarely has a problem fitting into the gauge; in fact it often fits with some wiggle room. That shock bottle gauge is awesome and very recommended.
One place to start with COAL is your magazine. I think Tanfo's etc. are limited by their mag length. Any reloading manual will have the recommended COAL, but you always want to check that the COAL will not bind in your mag as well.

 

[GoatLD259]

Some older model Glock barrels were made with a weird chamber that didn't support the entire circumference of the web of the case (I only know this of 40 and not 9 or 45). This resulted in a bulge at the base of the case that sort of looks like a smile or beer belly on one side (culater just posted a good pic above). Regular sizing dies don't quite size down far enough to reform the bulge properly, so the bulge buster kits were made to help. I like the Redding kit because it comes with a cool shell holder and you screw a big soda bottle. You could be a pimp and get one of the new automated roll sizers to deal with the bulge if you are rolling in money.
As a USPSA competitor, I either roll size (a friend has one), or use my Redding push through bulge buster for consistency and security (just to be sure that every case is the same, and to reduce the possibility of a jam). Roll size or push-through before you "size, flare, prime etc.".
A bulged case won't fit into the case gauge; rollsized or push-through brass rarely has a problem fitting into the gauge; in fact it often fits with some wiggle room. That shock bottle gauge is awesome and very recommended.
One place to start with COAL is your magazine. I think Tanfo's etc. are limited by their mag length. Any reloading manual will have the recommended COAL, but you always want to check that the COAL will not bind in your mag as well.

What do you mean by "push-through brass?"

Goat

 

[MiniB]

Redding G-RX Carbide Base Sizing Die Kit 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 10mm Auto

The Redding G-Rx Carbide Base Sizing Die meets the need of the reloader needing to reload brass shot through some of the most popular autoloaders today....

www.midwayusa.com

Sorry, I could have linked this in my first reply. This works like the Lee bulge buster, I find that it is a bit more refined and less prone to smashing fingers. Both of these (Lee and Redding) work by pushing the entire empty case through the die, thereby restoring the proper "cylinder" diameter and squishing the bulge back into proper shape. A regular sizing die doesn't resize the diameter all the way to the base of the case because of the shellholder (it's in the way). These push-through dies literally shove the entire case through the die, so you get the entire case "pre" sized (it's not going to be the same "resized" diameter as a normal sizing die, so you still have to use a regular sizing die afterwards).

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/85556 if you are loaded with money to burn

 

[GoatLD259]

Redding G-RX Carbide Base Sizing Die Kit 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 10mm Auto

The Redding G-Rx Carbide Base Sizing Die meets the need of the reloader needing to reload brass shot through some of the most popular autoloaders today....

www.midwayusa.com

Sorry, I could have linked this in my first reply. This works like the Lee bulge buster, I find that it is a bit more refined and less prone to smashing fingers. Both of these (Lee and Redding) work by pushing the entire empty case through the die, thereby restoring the proper "cylinder" diameter and squishing the bulge back into proper shape. A regular sizing die doesn't resize the diameter all the way to the base of the case because of the shellholder (it's in the way). These push-through dies literally shove the entire case through the die, so you get the entire case "pre" sized (it's not going to be the same "resized" diameter as a normal sizing die, so you still have to use a regular sizing die afterwards).

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/85556 if you are loaded with money to burn

Will those dies work in a RCBS single stage press? Also, is there anything on the market like that that will also de-prime as I am bulge busting with that set you posted?

I have these on order: Will this set work for re-sizing after I bulge bust them with the Redding Gr-x

Buy .40 S&W Reloading Essentials and More | RCBS

Shopping for the .40 S&W Reloading Essentials - Learn more about the latest Shop by Cartridge and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

 

[MiniB]

Yes, the push though dies will work on a single stage (they're really only designed for a single stage press). Unfortunately, I haven't found a dual purpose unit; not sure how you'd get the depriming pin to work when you are pushing the entire case through the die itself. I usually deprime first, wash/tumble second, and then squash through the push-through (or drive to my buddy's house and drool on his rollsizer). After that, the brass is ready for "reloading".

Those RCBS dies will work fine for the "reloading" part. Just like with rifle calibers, there is a hilarious rabbit hole for pistol dies; brands, features etc. You have to start somewhere, and the dies you have on order will be fine. I don't think that kit comes with a shell holder, so make sure you get the correct one as well. If you are debating, Lee makes an "undersize" or U-die in 40 that resizes a tad bit smaller than a regular resizing die (ie. the one in the RCBS kit). Some folks will swear by these U-dies. Again, it's a rabbit hole of features and opinions.

If you are doing everything on a RCBS single stage, I'd recommend you look at the Hornady Lock and Load retrofit system. On my Rock Chucker, you unscrew the main "die holding coupler" thing, and replace it with the Hornady die lock ring; you then dial in each of your dies with the other part of the Lock and Load ring. I'm not explaining it very well, but if you look up how the Hornady lock and load system works, it will make sense. Makes for much faster and convenient changing of dies, and your upper limb will thank you.

 

[GoatLD259]

I looked into that Lee U-die. I read in the description that it undersizes the brass .002-.003." Does this mean it is closing the mouth more for a tighter seat when seating the bullet? Or does it mean it is not closing the mouth as much making seating the bullet easier?

Thank you

Goat

 

[918v]

No it means it sizes the base of the case more than a standard die

 

[SWprotected]

The firearm I am reloading for is a Tanfoglio Limited Custom Xtreme.

For that pistol I would stick to SAAMI spec length. 2011s are typically throated to accept longer OAL.

 

[GoatLD259]

For that pistol I would stick to SAAMI spec length. 2011s are typically throated to accept longer OAL.

So just stick with the 1.135?

Goat

 

[SWprotected]

So just stick with the 1.135?

Goat

I would make a dummy round to ensure it doesnt stick. Depending on bullet profile it may need to be shorter. Check out Brian Enos Forum. There is all kinds of info for 40 loads there.

 

[GoatLD259]

As soon as I got home I put a couple once fired brass into my barrel. Correct me if I’m wrong, but based on a previous post picture, this brass is supported all the way, and the casing fit just fine. I don’t think I’ll be needing a bulge buster. Correct me if I am wrong please.

Goat

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

As soon as I got home I put a couple once fired brass into my barrel. Correct me if I’m wrong, but based on a previous post picture, this brass is supported all the way, and the casing fit just fine. I don’t think I’ll be needing a bulge buster. Correct me if I am wrong please.

Goat

It was only recommended that you use a bulge buster if you’re collecting and using range brass for your reloads.

If the brass you’re using was once fired from your pistol, you should be fine as the chamber is fully supporting the case.

 

[GoatLD259]

It was only recommended that you use a bulge buster if you’re collecting and using range brass for your reloads.

If the brass you’re using was once fired from your pistol, you should be fine as the chamber is fully supporting the case.

Thank you. I did not put that into consideration.

Goat

 

[MiniB]

The bulge buster isn't for your brass per se; its for the random brass that you pick up ("once" fired) from everyone else's guns. If you are competing (USPSA etc.), you'll generally pick up brass off the stage at the end of the match, or buy from an online source; this range brass is what you "bulge bust" to give yourself piece of mind because you can't control everyone's chamber. If you are shooting competitions, you're going to accumulate/hoard 1000's of cases. In fact, 1000 cases are rookie numbers...
918V explained the U-die; it will resize smaller than a regular die. For example: if a regular sizing die sizes the case to 0.400 OD, the U-die will resize down to 0.398 or so, all the way down to where it stops (just above the web). It does make the mouth of the case smaller, but you will flare the mouth for the bullet anyways, so you won't notice the difference in seating pressure. Some folks like the fact that the U dies create a "wasp waist" cartridge that makes bullet setback harder. Like SWprotected advised, brianenos.com is a good source/rabbit hole. Some folks feel that a wasp waist cartridge is desirable, others don't like it for the risk of reduced brass life.
I'd load maybe 10 dummies. You want to load a bunch into your magazine to get them "stacked" to ensure that the COAL isn't binding in the mag (only loading 1 won't get you that info because it's usually the 4-5th round down the stack that gets "bound" lengthwise and hinders feeding of the rounds above resulting in a jam). Just as SWprotected said, every bullet profile is different and therefore the COAL might need fine tuning based on bullet profile (hollow point vs. flat point vs. "round shoulder" vs. round nose).

 

[GoatLD259]

Thank you all for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated.

I have done some more research and plan on doing a plunk test to find a COAL for my firearm. About how far off from the lands should I be?

Example, lets say a round fails a plunk test at 1.134, but passes at 1.132. Should I make my COAL 1.131 just to be safe? be .003" off the lands.

Thank you

Goat

 

[918v]

Pistol bullets aren’t that consistent.

 

[GoatLD259]

Pistol bullets aren’t that consistent.

What is the +/- when I am doing a reload?

Say I am aiming for 1.131," what is the +/- I will be for pistol bullets?

Goat

 

[918v]

Prolly .005-.007“

Also consider that all these pistols are based on 9mm geometry and just because the mag can accept long coals does not mean its going to feed them reliably. Loading close to the lands does not produce accuracy. Anyone claiming that doesn‘t know shit.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

The bulge buster is a waste of time for 40SW.

 

[Choid]

U dies are garbage, they just compound the issue. If you have bulge, you need to rollsize. Anything else ain't gonna cut it.

 

[427Cobra]

I only use range brass, I bulge bust every single 40 case, and I use a U die in my 650, my Infinity pistol runs perfectly and is stupid accurate