44 Magnum w/W231 and 180gr XTP

[BKSSNIPER]

I’m basically trying to replicate a +P 45ACP for my wheelguns. I’m old, live a quiet life and just like my wheelguns.

So I chronographed some loads today.
3" Model 629-6
51 Degrees
20ft to Chrono

9.5grs of W231 w/ 180gr XTP
Average of 10 Shots 996fps
ES 48 fps
SD 15fps

10grs of W231 w/ 180gr XTP
Average of 10 shots 1074 fps
ES 90fps
SD 27fps

10.5grs of W231 w/180gr XTP
Average of 10 shots 1079fps
ES 42fps
SD 14fps

I shot through the chronograph into a target at 15yards, with 3 different powder charges they all went into one large hole about 2-2 1/2".

Shot another 38 rounds at a 25 yards target. Recoil is not bad, you know you are touching off something. My 3" Ahrend's combat grips on it. No fireball, all cases ejected smoothly. All ammo loaded at the same time, same machine, new brass, Remington 2 1/2 primers. etc.

Someone please help me with the ES/SD.
The 10.0 / 10.5 loads are really close but in the 10.5gr load the spreads are narrower. Does that make it a better load? Does it mean that in this situation, the powder has reached its "useable" loading?

Max load is 12.0grs w W231. Do you think there would be any advantage to adding a 1/4-1/2 gr more powder.

Next will be to test expansion, but it will be a few days, cold weather coming.

 

[EMorr]

In my experience and from what I understand large ES & SD numbers can often be attributed to low case fill volume. If you are able to switch powders to something else like Bluedot or even better yet IMR-4227 you will get much better case fill. With these powders at the bottom end of their powder charges they should yield similar-ish velocities to what you are seeing and possible slightly better ES and SD's, (emphasis on the word slightly). I don't really think you have found a spot where the load has reached it's "usable loading" you 9.5 grain load also had a similar ES and SD as the 10.5 load, you are just seeing the inconsistencies of pistol loading in this case. As far as there being a benefit of increasing the load? Well I'm guessing here, but the bullets being designed for 44 mag would likely need more velocity for reliable expansion but that is just a guess, I have no first hand experience with that projectile.

That being said I have never seen a pistol cartridge give rifle like ES or SD numbers. What's more is that ES and SD numbers are almost meaning less with pistols, you would literally have to be one of the best pistol shooters in the world to notice the difference in bullet drop at 25 yards from a 100 FPS change in velocity. If the loads you worked up shoot and group well I'd stick with them and not worry about chasing the numbers.

 

[BKSSNIPER]

Thank you. One reason I went with 231 in this load is to avoid the flash of other powders. I have loaded this bullet with H110/296 and it is awesome but puts on a light show. Haha

 

[roostercogburn98]

All I use for 44 mag is 4227

 

[ShtrRdy]

W231 is pretty fast for the 44 Mag. But if you're happy with the velocity then have fun with it. I wouldn't worry about SD and ES if its accurate enough for what you want to do.

Since W231 is fast you can count on all the powder being burnt before the bullet leaves the barrel. This will also result in less felt recoil.

 

[Sieg]

My go to load in my Redhawk is 22.4g of 2400 with a 240g Speer hp. Never had a reason to change, exceptionally accurate in my gun equipped with Leupold 2x scope.

 

[308sako]

Works exceptional in my 8 3/8'so S&W as well

 

[n2ishun]

Agree with the 4227 above.
I've used a butt ton of powders in a .44 mag and if you want to do a soft and slow load see if you can find some Unique....it's the only thing I found that particular powder good for.

Alliant Powder - Unique

www.alliantpowder.com

 

[JsnSanko]

I don’t have my notes handy. But I have been using W231 (actually HP38) under 175 Kieth Cast at 1000-1050fpsand 200 GDHP at right at 1100fps. I am shooting a S&W 329PD. On the Kieth I split the data between Spl and Mag loads in a mag case from the Lyman manual and worked my way up. The GDHP came out of the Speer manual for short barrels. They are as pleasant to shoot (even out of a 29 oz) revolver. I will check the shop for notes tomorrow and say what load of HP38 I had in those two loads. Both are 44 mag cases.

My pistol is not fun with full house 240gr Mag loads at all. But I carry the 175 Kieth load for both 4 and 2 legged creatures while hunting.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Guess I should also note that my loads are shot in a 16 inch Handi Rifle as well. I could realistically use another powder I’m sure, but 4227 was what I had laying around from loading 50 Beowulf.

 

[BKSSNIPER]

Maybe one day the gold dots will be available again. I sure hope so. The 10.0gr is the starting load from Hodgdon for the 44Mag. Once I get to test the bullet I may go down some toward the 44 spl loads.

Also have some H110/296 for when I want to set the world on fire…
I keep a box of the starting load of H110/296 and this bullet around for people who want the “magnum” experience but I don’t want them to shoot a heavy recoiling load. Bright lights and a huge boom but recoil is pretty easy. Haha

 

[roostercogburn98]

Some of the options look like a good way to conserve powder honestly. The fact I’m using 23g of 4227 when I could be using probably 13g of another would give me several more rounds per pound. If I used it fir more than just a deer rifle, I’d seriously look into a lot of the options. I keep h110, lil gun, 296, autocomp, cfe, snd trailboss on hand. Good to know options are always available

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Agree with the 4227 above.
I've used a butt ton of powders in a .44 mag and if you want to do a soft and slow load see if you can find some Unique....it's the only thing I found that particular powder good for.

Alliant Powder - Unique

www.alliantpowder.com

Agree with the Unique. I have used IMR4227 in magnum handguns with good results. Primarily 41 magnum. However, my goto powder for heavy loads in the 44 magnum is WW296 (or H110 they are the same powder) For light to medium loads, I use Unique. The Unique is a quiet powder that hits the shooter light while in the 44 magnum can still generate a good wallop on the shootee side using a 250 grain cast Kieth bullet.

 

[n2ishun]

BTW, here's a load using 11 grains of unique. It's a serious powder saving type of powder.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

www.alliantpowder.com

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

BTW, here's a load using 11 grains of unique. It's a serious powder saving type of powder.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

www.alliantpowder.com

Used 10 grains of Unique behind the Kieth bullet. A really nice mid range load that is still pretty potent.

 

[myronman3]

8.5 grains unique behind a 260 grain LBT or a 250 grain kieth cast is my easy shooting 44 mag load.

have you tried using 44special cases? that would solve some of your case capacity problem and opens a whole different power level. my 44 special load is either my kieth 250 grain, or the 260 grain lbt at 7.5 grains unique. i have other loads for the special, but dont want to go too far off into the weeds here.

you can find a copy of lyman’s cast bullet manual, it is a friggen treasure trove of info for lower level loadings that might be hard to find elsewhere.

 

[bfoosh006]

Powder position in the case as mentioned.

If possible, try pointing the muzzle up, then slowly lower the gun on target then fire.. repeat.

pointing up settles the powder close to the primer more consistently.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

8.5 grains unique behind a 260 grain LBT or a 250 grain kieth cast is my easy shooting 44 mag load.

have you tried using 44special cases? that would solve some of your case capacity problem and opens a whole different power level. my 44 special load is either my kieth 250 grain, or the 260 grain lbt at 7.5 grains unique. i have other loads for the special, but dont want to go too far off into the weeds here.

you can find a copy of lyman’s cast bullet manual, it is a friggen treasure trove of info for lower level loadings that might be hard to find elsewhere.

Used 7.5 grains for a light load and it shoots great, hits as hard as a .357. Can’t say enough about the versatility of the .44.

 

[BKSSNIPER]

One of my plinking loads is 5.5grs. of W231 and a 240gr ACME SWC seated to the front edge of the bullet.
Goes 832 fps / ES 15 / SD 6

looks funny but is accurate as hell.

The Unique loads shoot good but I haven’t tried it with my progressive press so I have to give it another look.

 

[redbullitt]

Unique is great for this use. Ive had good luck with red dot as well with a cast and coated 240g bullet. Both Very quiet suppressed, edge to red dot.

Neither meter particularly well... so i can see where w231 would fit the bill very well if youre throwing powder!

If the 231 loads are accurate enough at your distances then dont worry about the velocity spread. I doubt i shoot well enough to be unhappy with what you have there Load em up and enjoy burning less powder and not needing mag primers.