Rifle Scopes 5.56 AR Zeroing - Aimpoint vs LPVO

[Viper1973]

Guys,

Not sure if this is the right spot for this since it is an optics question but also an operational question...

Long story but I finally decided to upgrade the optics on my DDM4 from an Aimpoint CompM4s w/ magnifier to a Nightforce Atacr 1-8x24 f1.
The rifle is currently zero'd at 50y for the Aimpoint.

After getting the new optics mounted one thing I didn't consider was if I should stick with the 50y zero or if I really should be using something different with the Atacr. What do you guys think? This is my first encounter using anything other than a red dot on an AR.

I realize I'm probably overthinking but I'd prefer to do it right rather than what I 'think' is right.

Thoughts?

 

[Mike4837]

Guys,

Not sure if this is the right spot for this since it is an optics question but also an operational question...

Long story but I finally decided to upgrade the optics on my DDM4 from an Aimpoint CompM4s w/ magnifier to a Nightforce Atacr 1-8x24 f1.
The rifle is currently zero'd at 50y for the Aimpoint.

After getting the new optics mounted one thing I didn't consider was if I should stick with the 50y zero or if I really should be using something different with the Atacr. What do you guys think? This is my first encounter using anything other than a red dot on an AR.

I realize I'm probably overthinking but I'd prefer to do it right rather than what I 'think' is right.

Thoughts?

Do you have easy access to 100 yards?

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

What are you going to use the rifle for? As mentioned 100 yds is pretty much the standard unless it's only for home defense, then maybe (or not) less.

 

[Viper1973]

Do you have easy access to 100 yards?

Yeah.... I have easy access to anything up to 100 yards.

A Marine buddy of mine is how I ended up with the original 50y zero with the Aimpoint. His rationale was that since you're pretty much within the 2moa 'dot' from 20 to like 300y you wouldn't have to try and figure drop or holdovers, etc.

But I wasn't sure the same rationale would apply to a LPVO.

The atacr doesn't have a BDC reticle but I do have a mil grid for wind, etc. Wasn't sure how the previous 'zero' method would play with that at longer distances.

I basically went with the LVPO because I liked the idea of having the extra magnification (8x vs 3x) and not having to have mess with the flip-to-side and the crud that lands on the magnifier lens from the ejection port.

 

[Viper1973]

What are you going to use the rifle for? As mentioned 100 yds is pretty much the standard unless it's only for home defense, then maybe (or not) less.

I consider the DDM4 my purpose-built fighting gun for when SHTF. Basically the same purpose the military intended for it.
That's not to say I don't enjoy shooting groups with it...

I realize that 100y is pretty much the standard for most rifles. However, from everything i've read I didn't think that necessarily applied to ARs due to the ballistics of the round or that was the justification my buddy used to talk me into the 50.

 

[SepticDeath]

If your not going to be dialing elevation I would stick with the 50 yard zero. If you are 100 yard.

 

[Viper1973]

If your not going to be dialing elevation I would stick with the 50 yard zero. If you are 100 yard.

The Atacr has covered turrets and doesn't have a zero stop so dialing doesn't seem to be something they intended.

 

[021411]

All my AR’s get a 50/200 zero even with 1-6x glass. If it’s a dedicated precision build where I’m dialing then I do 100.

 

[Sled]

If it's purely your defense SHTF gun, as my DDM4 is, stick with the 50 yd. zero. That gets the ability to just shoot anyone out to 300 yards without holdver. Past 300 yds. you should probably be using a different rifle anyway. And in actuality, if you are shooting at someone over 300 yds away, you are going to have a hard time explaining that when rule of law returns. People tend to forget that in their scenarios....

 

[gconnoyer]

36y, 50y, or 100y. Pick your poison on how your rifle will be most utilized. I would zero at 50 or 100, depending on how you feel about using holdovers.
Like stated above, 200+ is PRETTY hard to justify as a self defense shot.

Here's a video that lays it out pretty simply and draws out the impacts on target with each different zero.

 

[Mike4837]

My only caveat to all of this is, if you're going to pick a 50 or wherever zero because it is poa/poi at x distance, then shoot it at that distance to confirm. Otherwise, you just have a 50 yard zero. I personally choose a 100 yard zero because it's a more refined zero at the farthest likely distance I'll have to shoot. I've zero'd at 50 yards before and then been significantly off my zero when I go back to 100. I use the ATACR on my 5.56 gun as well and zero to 100. Holds for anything farther.

I also zero my RMR on my pistol at 25 and then fine tune at 100 so maybe I'm just weird.

 

[lawofsavage]

If it's purely your defense SHTF gun, as my DDM4 is, stick with the 50 yd. zero. That gets the ability to just shoot anyone out to 300 yards without holdver. Past 300 yds. you should probably be using a different rifle anyway. And in actuality, if you are shooting at someone over 300 yds away, you are going to have a hard time explaining that when rule of law returns. People tend to forget that in their scenarios....

Hell, if someone is shooting at me and I feel confident I won't harm anyone but the person putting me in danger, I'm sure as shit shooting back at them. I get it, that it is not very probable at all that someone is going to be shooting at you from long distances but crazy shit happens and to act like it doesn't is stupid.

 

[wade2big]

Zero at 50 yards. It is point and shoot on man size targets to just over 300 yds.
400 yards lollipop the head with the crosshairs and it will hit center torso. Thats what these guns are intended. I bang steel with mine when i take it out. I dont shoot at tiny targets for groups. I have other rifles for that. I want to hit torso targets out to 400 yards. I can do it with my ak open sights and easier with my ar with a red dot and easier yet with the scope. High or low it doesnt matter. A hit is a hit. There will be more bullets behind the first no matter what.

 

[Sled]

Hell, if someone is shooting at me and I feel confident I won't harm anyone but the person putting me in danger, I'm sure as shit shooting back at them. I get it, that it is not very probable at all that someone is going to be shooting at you from long distances but crazy shit happens and to act like it doesn't is stupid.

Which is why I said "hard to explain" and not "impossible to explain"

 

[Singleshot]

Home defense go 100.
Shtf on the streets go 50/200.

100 you only need to holdover. 3” or so within 100 yards. But it drops significantly past 300. 20-30 inches, so if you aim at the head you still hit torso.

For 50/200, you need to holdover within 50, and then holdunder from 50-100, and then switch back to hold over beyond that. Sure, it’s 2-3” over or under. But a precise shot may be just what you need at close range.

At the end of the day, personal preference I guess. Personally I go 100. Easier to remember. If they are too far, aim above their head. If they are close, I am capable of popping his eyes out for taking my family hostage

 

[021411]

I’m fine with a 50 zero for CQB distance. Aim dead center on the face if I forget to aim higher and it’ll still smack him in the mouth or chin. Doubt they’ll complain.

 

[Singleshot]

Ya I guess. within 50 yards it’s about the same drop.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

For my work SPR, we mandate a 50 yd zero. That keeps it very simple for 99.999% of the shots a LEO is likely to encounter. What I do is this: I zero my T2 and my ATACR at 50. This allows me to be poa/poi within 2” out to about 300 yds. Much farther than LEO are ever likely to shoot. BUT, I keep my LPV set at 5X instead of 1X.
My reasoning is this: if I have to jump out and make a quick, snap shot, my T2 is already on and zeroed perfect. If I have to get to cover, deploy my bi-pod, etc. I am much better served with my scope already dialed up. I can adjust up/down from 5X in a flash, so I find that’s a solid compromise.
This is just what I have come up with based on a couple of years of training with the LPV’s. I find it quick, and useful in the role I am likely to engage.
No reason to have an Aimpoint/RMR zeroed at 50 and a scope zeroed at 50 on 1X. Sort of defeats the purpose of one of them.

 

[Mike4837]

For my work SPR, we mandate a 50 yd zero. That keeps it very simple for 99.999% of the shots a LEO is likely to encounter. What I do is this: I zero my T2 and my ATACR at 50. This allows me to be poa/poi within 2” out to about 300 yds. Much farther than LEO are ever likely to shoot. BUT, I keep my LPV set at 5X instead of 1X.
My reasoning is this: if I have to jump out and make a quick, snap shot, my T2 is already on and zeroed perfect. If I have to get to cover, deploy my bi-pod, etc. I am much better served with my scope already dialed up. I can adjust up/down from 5X in a flash, so I find that’s a solid compromise.
This is just what I have come up with based on a couple of years of training with the LPV’s. I find it quick, and useful in the role I am likely to engage.
No reason to have an Aimpoint/RMR zeroed at 50 and a scope zeroed at 50 on 1X. Sort of defeats the purpose of one of them.

@VegasHKShooter I'm curious what you're reasoning for a T2 and the 1-8 ATACR are since you run the 1-8 at 5x. Maybe a better way of asking that is, why not a T2 with a 4-16x42 ATACR or the like since you're using the 1-8 for the magnification more than the 1x. You've piqued my curiosity.

 

[Mblackmon4]

Like everyone else said it depends on what your purpose is, personally I live on a ranch on the border, about 2 hours ago i shot a coyote running at 25 yds but I have pigs out to 300. I run a xtr 1-5 and have it zeroed at 1.5” high at 100. Anything less than 200 I just put the reticle on and pull the trigger, at 300 I hold a touch high (top of back or top of my 8” gong) and still get good consistent hits and trust that it’s either me or the ammo I’m using if I miss. (I blame ammo sometimes because I have a shitload of steel case I’m still trying to use up from the Obama days)

 

[hypno02]

50/200 for me. I can see a 100yd zero with a ATaCR but the ballistics and sight height of an AR15 make the 50/200 much more feasible in my opinion.

Whatever you go with just make sure you train and get to intimately know your rifle/trajectories.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

@VegasHKShooter I'm curious what you're reasoning for a T2 and the 1-8 ATACR are since you run the 1-8 at 5x. Maybe a better way of asking that is, why not a T2 with a 4-16x42 ATACR or the like since you're using the 1-8 for the magnification more than the 1x. You've piqued my curiosity.

Because it’s my work gun and that’s what I’m allowed to run. ? On my personal guns I do run both 4-16’s, and 5-25’s.
I’m using a KAC LPR with an 18” barrel. My glass is my ATACR 1-8. Best I can run within the LPVO class.

 

[shadow93]

Zero at 50, confirm at 100.

 

[Viper1973]

Thanks guys... Looks like I'm going to keep the 50y zero.

Like I said this is my first dealings with a LPVO and I think I'm going to really like it. I love my Aimpoint and magnifier but hate the crudded up magnifier optics due to the flip to side. This gets rid of that issue and I get to keep the red dot simplicity. Plus with this I'm going to use a Spuhr QD so I can swap in something else pretty much on-demand without having to bolt on and line up multiple pieces.

 

[R700P308]

I use a 50yd zero on anything other than a "precision rifle." It's the best all-around zero within most likely engagement distances.

 

[koshkin]

You'll be using your ATACR on low power in the same way you use your Aimpoint now. Maintain the zero you are used.

ILya

 

[longshot2000]

All my AR’s get a 50/200 zero even with 1-6x glass. If it’s a dedicated precision build where I’m dialing then I do 100.

Good advice.

 

[Shoots 700's]

All my rifles with glass have 100 yards zero. My red dots are all 50 years except for my scorpions which have 25 yard zero’s