5.56 tavor vs 300blk sbr

[redbullitt]

Curious on what you guys think of this one for terminal ballistics on 2 legged goblins. 16 inch 5.56 speed or 300blk Barnes blacktip goodness?

Lets assume you have both rifles, and you know how to work them both equally well. You're also right handed for the Tavor's sake. Which one stands out and why for a house weapon and an away from home or a general "uh oh I need a rifle weapon?"

Tavor: 16 inches of 5.56 throwing a 62g gold dot about 2900fps, surefire mini suppressor. Compm4 dot, aftermarket trigger. OAL is about 31 inches, notably heavier than ar, but well balanced.

AR SBR: 8 inches of 300blk throwing a Barnes 110 at just over 2kfps, surefire shorty supressor. Compm5 dot, LaRue trigger, law folder. OAL is 29.75 inches

I tend to lean to the tavor, but dang if im not getting cold feet leaving the AR in the safe.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

[308pirate]

Bullpup = no NFA

AR pistol + brace = no NFA

SBR = NFA

Don't invite the Man into your life

 

[sea2summit]

.300 BO is a great idea that isn’t IMHO. I tried to get it to defend the chicken coop and everything I shot ran away, only some recovered. Went back to .223 and the chickens thanked me.

 

[stemikel]

.308 pirate said it best. Don't mess with the man. Go with the 5.56 Tavor. I have one and absolutely love it.

 

[Odysseus1911]

300 blackout, but there are two major caveats:

1. You have to have a quality barrel. Based on all the thousands of first hand reports, most factory 300 blk barrels are a 3-4 moa blunderbuss. So people think it's an inherently inaccurate round. If you can't get good shot placement, animals will run off after being shot. @padom can weigh in on this. I think he tried two factory barrels that shot like absolute crap before finding a .5 moa shooter in the Rainier Ultramatch. I had a Craddock/Bartlein spun up for my pistol.

2. You have to use the right bullets. Lots of factory 300 blk ammo uses bullets that expand at .308 muzzle velocities but act like an FMJ below 2000 fps.

With projectiles that expand down to 1500-1600 fps, (Speer TNT, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady SST) all the 300 blk hog hunters and deer hunters find it to be far more effective against 150-300 lb. critters than 5.56. I would imagine that carries over into two legged critters as well.

 

[fdkay]

I am a big fan of the .300 BLK if you are running SBR's.
In your case, a 16" barrel 5.56, does not suffer the same difficulties that a shorty 5.56 does.
The black tipped barnes bullet kicks serious ass.
No reason not to build a pistol, though I would likely go for 10.5".
If, on the other hand, you already own the tavor, then I don't see the need for the blk.
If you don't already own the tavor and want a bullpup, take a serious look at the Kel-tec RFB.

 

[2muchcowbell]

Or. OR. Get a .300 BLK Tavor. Have the best of both worlds. And you could go for a pistol brace instead of getting the ATF involved with an SBR. SB Tactical makes some really nice braces.

If you already have both and have trouble deciding which you prefer, I'd recommend running through target transition, failure to stop, and mag change drills then compare the times between the two rifles. Let that be your deciding factor.
In my experience, the BLK is a fraction of a second slower for follow-up shots. Another point is that the Tavor might be a bit more maneuverable than an AR, maybe? I've never run a Tavor through drills before. But good luck with your decision!

 

[1911addict42]

You can go with the Tavor 7 (it's a .308) if you're looking for that extra power and accuracy... I've been considering it.

 

[BurnOut]

You can go with the Tavor 7 (it's a .308) if you're looking for that extra power and accuracy... I've been considering it.

Having a (conceptually) similar rifle (to the Tavor 7), I would say that .308 Win is waaaaaaaaayy too much round for two-leggers at even the most generous of legally defensible shooting distances.

Like, if something happens to where the OP (or any of us) finds himself in a situation where he has to shoot a two-legger, it's going to be damned difficult to claim self defense or anything similar if you drill someone out at 100+ yards. I mean, you do you, but if someone is more than about 25 yards from me, I'm going to seriously question whether or not I really need to drop the hammer on 'em. I truly hope to never find out, though.

If the goal of this exercise is really house/home defense, then my vote is for a PCC loaded with some good hollow points. However, if the goal is a goof around gun for popping 'yotes or whatever that wander up near the house then it's difficult to argue against the 300 BLK (with appropriate projectiles) to make the shot without carrying too far after passing through the critter.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Get the best of both worlds!
Try one of the SIG MCX Virtuous Pistols with the folding arm brace and get the .300 barrel and the .556 barrel for it.

Then if you want full rifle length barrels later on, just get the rifle length barrels for either or both.

 

[sea2summit]

Having a (conceptually) similar rifle (to the Tavor 7), I would say that .308 Win is waaaaaaaaayy too much round for two-leggers at even the most generous of legally defensible shooting distances.

Like, if something happens to where the OP (or any of us) finds himself in a situation where he has to shoot a two-legger, it's going to be damned difficult to claim self defense or anything similar if you drill someone out at 100+ yards. I mean, you do you, but if someone is more than about 25 yards from me, I'm going to seriously question whether or not I really need to drop the hammer on 'em. I truly hope to never find out, though.

If the goal of this exercise is really house/home defense, then my vote is for a PCC loaded with some good hollow points. However, if the goal is a goof around gun for popping 'yotes or whatever that wander up near the house then it's difficult to argue against the 300 BLK (with appropriate projectiles) to make the shot without carrying too far after passing through the critter.

What the fk does “way to much round” mean? That’s libtardation if I ever heard it. What about 12 gauge buckshot? What about slugs? Is a 12 ga slug too much? Because both rounds have a lot more horsepower than a .308.

So if bad dude is shooting at me with a .22 LR at 150 yards I can’t shoot back with a .308? Because 223 is going to start struggling out that far to administer the room temperature challenge award quickly and he is the rating me with deadly force. What about the BLM guys that are shooting up buildings with 223, I can’t shoot back with .308?

Don’t be libtarded.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Lets assume you have both rifles, and you know how to work them both equally well. You're also right handed for the Tavor's sake. Which one stands out and why for a house weapon and an away from home or a general "uh oh I need a rifle weapon?"

That's the part that seals the deal for me - that, and the velocity delta, since hydrostatic shock is a real thing. If you aren't clearing right corners left-handed, you are a target for longer than you should be. Don't get me wrong, I want everyone not on my team doing everything wrong all the time, so...maybe disregard this whole damned thing. I say get a super short barrel and a super slow projectile and clear your corners with no pie-ing at all.


That is all.

 

[houndog]

So you know while the Tavor cannot really be shot ambidextrously it can be set up for lefties. And as a southpaw it is kind of nice not to get gas in my face. As you note, the Tavor really does need an aftermarket trigger. I shoot the Tavor pretty well offhand, so that might be my choice. Also, in a pinch I could shoot it out to 300+ yards, although as BurnOut noted, it's tough to justify shooting a two legged target at those distances. Ultimately, it probably comes down to which rifle you feel more comfortable shooting. Can you do mag changes and clear jams equally quickly with each rifle? Do you want/need to shoot ambidextrously? Those should probably be the deciding factors.

 

[BurnOut]

What the fk does “way to much round” mean? That’s libtardation if I ever heard it. What about 12 gauge buckshot? What about slugs? Is a 12 ga slug too much? Because both rounds have a lot more horsepower than a .308.

So if bad dude is shooting at me with a .22 LR at 150 yards I can’t shoot back with a .308? Because 223 is going to start struggling out that far to administer the room temperature challenge award quickly and he is the rating me with deadly force. What about the BLM guys that are shooting up buildings with 223, I can’t shoot back with .308?

Don’t be libtarded.

So this is the way you want to go with this, huh? Okay.

I won't be libtarded if you won't be Davey Douchebag trying to run a carbine course with a 50 BMG. Is it possible that a bad dude is going to shoot at you from 150 yards (with anything)? Sure. Is it probable? Not for most of us. How 'bout you, Tommy Tactical? How likely are you to get in a gun battle?

For most of us, over-penetration in a home defense scenario is a concern... or do you just blast Ricky Robber with a a .308, then tell your wife's corpse (created when you perforated Ricky from 10 yards) "Well, I didn't wanna be libtarded, so I let 'em have it. Better than 9mm, amirite??"

 

[1911addict42]

So this is the way you want to go with this, huh? Okay.

I won't be libtarded if you won't be Davey Douchebag trying to run a carbine course with a 50 BMG. Is it possible that a bad dude is going to shoot at you from 150 yards (with anything)? Sure. Is it probable? Not for most of us. How 'bout you, Tommy Tactical? How likely are you to get in a gun battle?

For most of us, over-penetration in a home defense scenario is a concern... or do you just blast Ricky Robber with a a .308, then tell your wife's corpse (created when you perforated Ricky from 10 yards) "Well, I didn't wanna be libtarded, so I let 'em have it. Better than 9mm, amirite??"

I’m new to all this, but I learned pretty quickly that some guys just like to piss on everyone else’s ideas, while contributing nothing of their own. There’s really nothing to do other than ignore.

 

[sea2summit]

So this is the way you want to go with this, huh? Okay.

I won't be libtarded if you won't be Davey Douchebag trying to run a carbine course with a 50 BMG. Is it possible that a bad dude is going to shoot at you from 150 yards (with anything)? Sure. Is it probable? Not for most of us. How 'bout you, Tommy Tactical? How likely are you to get in a gun battle?

For most of us, over-penetration in a home defense scenario is a concern... or do you just blast Ricky Robber with a a .308, then tell your wife's corpse (created when you perforated Ricky from 10 yards) "Well, I didn't wanna be libtarded, so I let 'em have it. Better than 9mm, amirite??"

As I read it he’s talking about legal defensibility of a .308 vs some less mean caliber mentioned several times. A single reference to pass through?

 

[BurnOut]

As I read it he’s talking about legal defensibility of a .308 vs some less mean caliber mentioned several times. A single reference to pass through?

Close. ish.

I'm talking about using .308 Win in a self-defense scenario. In a "I feared for my life and/or the lives of my loved ones" type of situation where you use a firearm against someone, it'd be difficult to make the "I thought he was gonna kill me" case for anyone more than, say, 25 or so yards away from you. Even 50 yards. At 50 yards (much less the 5-10 yard shots that would be more likely in most homes), .223, 300 BLK, and especially .308 Win all have a real chance of going clean through the bad guy and hitting someone else... like a family member or a neighbor. That's why I suggested a PCC with some hollow points if the purpose of the exercise is really self/home defense.

Odds of a bad guy wearing armor are pretty damned slim, so even out to 50 yards (which would be an EXTREME self defense range), a PCC will have plenty of ability to poke a hole in someone to discourage their behavior, while reducing the hazard to someone on the other side of a wall comprised by no more than a couple pieces of 3/4" sheetrock (as most interior walls are). Why do you think even SWAT teams, FBI HRT, etc... have used MP5s for so long? Because it's the right tool for the job.

 

[1911addict42]

Close. ish.

I'm talking about using .308 Win in a self-defense scenario. In a "I feared for my life and/or the lives of my loved ones" type of situation where you use a firearm against someone, it'd be difficult to make the "I thought he was gonna kill me" case for anyone more than, say, 25 or so yards away from you. Even 50 yards. At 50 yards (much less the 5-10 yard shots that would be more likely in most homes), .223, 300 BLK, and especially .308 Win all have a real chance of going clean through the bad guy and hitting someone else... like a family member or a neighbor. That's why I suggested a PCC with some hollow points if the purpose of the exercise is really self/home defense.

Odds of a bad guy wearing armor are pretty damned slim, so even out to 50 yards (which would be an EXTREME self defense range), a PCC will have plenty of ability to poke a hole in someone to discourage their behavior, while reducing the hazard to someone on the other side of a wall comprised by no more than a couple pieces of 3/4" sheetrock (as most interior walls are). Why do you think even SWAT teams, FBI HRT, etc... have used MP5s for so long? Because it's the right tool for the job.

I went with a .300 blackout with open tips for home defense. Maybe not best choice but hopefully limits some of the risks you’ve delineated.

 

[aslrookie]

The barrel quality for 300blk is definitely the key factor. I had a Ballistic Advantage and Sig MCX gen 1 300blk barrels and both were not very accurate. My Sig barrel was absolute crap at 200 yards with 147gr FMJ ammo.

I have a Seekins 8.3” barrel and it’s lights out accurate. I can hit small circle plates consistently at 200 yards with 200gr subsonic ammo and a red dot. At 50 yards it groups nice and tight for easy zeroing. My other 300blk barrels were not nearly as good.

Also have to think about spare parts. The future is uncertain, but regardless you’ll be a lot better off with an AR than a Tavor. SBR...who cares...you really think the govt doesn’t know what you’ve bought from a dealer? Serial numbers are tracked from manufacturers to wholesalers to dealers to customers. All they need is a chain of people to ask that will eventually lead to who currently has it.

 

[Odysseus1911]

At 50 yards (much less the 5-10 yard shots that would be more likely in most homes), .223, 300 BLK, and especially .308 Win all have a real chance of going clean through the bad guy and hitting someone else...

a PCC will have plenty of ability to poke a hole in someone to discourage their behavior, while reducing the hazard to someone on the other side of a wall comprised by no more than a couple pieces of 3/4" sheetrock (as most interior walls are).

I actually gave this same train of thought a lot of reaearch before choosing 300 blk. On the 300blktalk forum and forums focused on hunting, guys using Speer TNT 125 and Hornady SST 125 were having bullets pass through the torso on deer and hogs leaving a large exit wound roughly 75% of the time and 25% of the time the pancaked bullet would be lodged just under the hide on the opposite side of the animal from entry. Ballistic gel tests on these bullets at 2000 fps show an average 18" penetration which confirms the hunting observations. So, I extrapolated this to mean that these projectiles traveling at 2000 fps would pass through a bad guy with lots of expansion and a loss of the majority of its energy. The remaining energy would not likely be enough to push the now flattened projectile through two layers of sheetrock. That was my estimation, anyway. Would love to see real world data on this if anybody knows of any.

 

[BurnOut]

I actually gave this same train of thought a lot of reaearch before choosing 300 blk. On the 300blktalk forum and forums focused on hunting, guys using Speer TNT 125 and Hornady SST 125 were having bullets pass through the torso on deer and hogs leaving a large exit wound roughly 75% of the time and 25% of the time the pancaked bullet would be lodged just under the hide on the opposite side of the animal from entry. Ballistic gel tests on these bullets at 2000 fps show an average 18" penetration which confirms the hunting observations. So, I extrapolated this to mean that these projectiles traveling at 2000 fps would pass through a bad guy with lots of expansion and a loss of the majority of its energy. The remaining energy would not likely be enough to push the now flattened projectile through two layers of sheetrock. That was my estimation, anyway. Would love to see real world data on this if anybody knows of any.

I don't know, off the top of my head, of any data sources, but doing a little math (and making a couple of assumptions) leads to the following conclusions:

• A 125 gr projectile with an impact velocity of 2000 FPS has 1110 ft/lb of energy
  • ASSuming that it sheds, say, 3/4 of its energy in the bad guy, it still has ~278 ft/lb leaving the bad guy
• A quick look at Hornady's 9mm rounds shows that specs on the Hornady BLACK 124 gr XTP retains (on average) 290 ft/lb at 50 yards
  • I'd be willing to bet that even at 50 yards, that round would penetrate two pieces of sheetrock

All of the above being said, the SD of the expanded 300 BLK/125 gr projectile would be DRASTICALLY different than a virgin 124 gr XTP, so that's a factor. Another factor is the above ASSumption that the 300 BLK/125 gr projectile would shed 3/4 of its energy in the bad guy. Maybe it's more, maybe it's less. Maybe it depends on whether or not it hit bone on its way through... or which bone(s) it hit. Yet another factor is that nothing says that the expanded projectile will travel in a straight line; maybe it sheds a "petal" on its way through the meat, which in turn causes it to track differently. Speaking of that, nothing says that the expanded projectile will experience 100% weight retention. Yet another factor still is that there is absolutely more to terminal ballistics than kinetic energy.

I'm certainly no terminal ballistics expert, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I don't think that any of the above ASSumptions are too far beyond the realm of reality, at least for the purpose of general discussion. The long and short of it is that it is up to each of us to make his own assessment regarding the self/home defense scenarios that are realistic/"likely", and to determine how much risk we're willing to take in our response to those scenarios. I do however think that it's fair to make some ASSumptions regarding self/home defense scenarios that are realistic/"likely" for those of us in the US:

• There's a reason for the quotation marks around the word "likely"; honestly, home invasions are pretty damned uncommon in the US. Using FBI data for 2018, there were a total of 282,061 burglaries in 2018. Of those, 15.9% (44,847.7; call it 45k to make the math easier) were burglaries of residences (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/robbery). This, in a country of 127.59M households (again, 2018 numbers). 45,000/127,590,000 = pretty damned unlikely, in the grand scheme of things. All of that said, I can't say with any certainty what percentage of those residential burglaries were actual home invasions vs. simple burglaries, so I assumed that 100% of them were, just to make a point.
• An overwhelming majority of the folks who are into firearms (and therefore are likely to be making an assessment of this type) live in either suburban, exurban, or rural settings. As a result, it's less likely that we (as a collective) have walls shared with neighbors (which represent an additional risk regarding this kind of assessment).
• US laws regarding armed self defense are such that it'd be pretty difficult to justify (in court) shooting someone more than a few yards from you/your loved ones. I used 25-50 yards in my examples in earlier posts, but I'd be willing to bet that it'd be a tough row to hoe in front of a judge/jury to claim, with a straight face, that you felt imminent danger even out that far. Realistically, even 15 yards is likely to be pushing it in this regard. For me, this sets... call it the "rules of engagement", since I'm not willing to go to jail (or even trial) for shooting someone who doesn't pose a threat to me or mine.
• It behooves all of us to keep in mind the possible vs the probable. Is it possible that a gang of 50+ people assault my home? Sure, why not? Is it likely? Not in the least. With that understanding, does it make much sense to conceive of a home defense plan that would allow my family and me to survive such an assault? Again, not in the least. That said, if it turns someone's crank to endeavor to find and plan to handle every possible home defense scenario, I'm not going to stand in their way. I hope they have a hell of a budget.
• There is unlikely to EVER be enough of a data set to make any definitive conclusions in regard to terminal ballistics on human targets; there are just too many variables that change from one situation to the next, and conducting actual scientific research on the subject (where variables are changed only one at a time and results are demonstrably repeatable) obviously isn't feasible.

With all of THAT said, I feel like I just wrote a novel, and realize that I have (inadvertently) threadjacked the OP, for which I apologize.

 

[strikeeagle1]

A surviving bad person has never complained about what it was they were shot with. (never finish a sentence in a preposition, unless from Minnesota of course).

 

[AngryKoala]

Curious on what you guys think of this one for terminal ballistics on 2 legged goblins. 16 inch 5.56 speed or 300blk Barnes blacktip goodness?

Lets assume you have both rifles, and you know how to work them both equally well. You're also right handed for the Tavor's sake. Which one stands out and why for a house weapon and an away from home or a general "uh oh I need a rifle weapon?"

Tavor: 16 inches of 5.56 throwing a 62g gold dot about 2900fps, surefire mini suppressor. Compm4 dot, aftermarket trigger. OAL is about 31 inches, notably heavier than ar, but well balanced.

AR SBR: 8 inches of 300blk throwing a Barnes 110 at just over 2kfps, surefire shorty supressor. Compm5 dot, LaRue trigger, law folder. OAL is 29.75 inches

I tend to lean to the tavor, but dang if im not getting cold feet leaving the AR in the safe.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Get that 50 beowulf pistol......just because.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Whichever one allows you most easily shoot someone in the nose at anticipated distances.

 

[tex68w]

I vote 300BLK but I have been running the caliber since 2011 and it has more than proven itself to me. I had the first Gen Tavor many years back when it first hit the scene and I never really gelled with it but they definitely have their benefits as well.

 

[redbullitt]

Thanks for all the feedback and discussion !

I do also like the idea of the pistol carbine, ie a vector, mp5, or scorpion. Subsonic hst works well and suppresses well. Oal on all of those with an octane suppressor is smaller than either of my rifles for sure... but I'm not sure I want to give up rifle thwack energy.

Lucky for me, home is very rural and very brick heavy in construction, so unlikely to have neighbor penetration issues with 5.56 or 300blk or handgun going through sheetrock. Possible, but far less likely than most I'm sure.

I am hopefully going to go do some shooting this weekend and run a timer for some drills comparing the 2 options. I have both rifles at my disposal, though I am more comfortable with running the AR pattern since I just got the tavor last summer. That may well be all I need to consider right there... and I think some head to head time will be telling me I'm a bit too green with the tavor.

The weirdness/impossibility of trying to shoot the tavor lefty on the fly is a valid concern since I do try to use weak side passably for all my shooting. Ive had enough injuries to understand why we have 2 hands. The x95 simply feels much thicker in every respect compared to the AR, so I'm not sure I handle it quite as well, likely user error of course there... but still very notable right now. It just doesn't seem to swing like the svelte little AR.

I may be crazy, but I swear the short 8 inch blackout is louder with supers through the little can(not the case with the 10.5 inch barrel) than the tavor with its short can. Any thoughts here, or is it just in my head?

I guess really my biggest concern is simply if the shorty blackout is up to the challenge with regard to terminal ballistics. Everything I have read suggests yes, but I have never shot a deer or pig with it... 16inch 5.56 gold dot has worked plenty well, so simply cold feet leaving the familiar I suppose.

The whole reason I ever did a short AR is for the maneuverability, and 300blk to work well with the short barrel. The damned bullpup, on paper, just seems to shoot that whole endeavor right in the foot in my mind lol.

Hell, how about an 8 or 10 inch sbr tavor in 300blk, big open Manticore handguard over the can? Fess up... who has one of those lol?

Any other hunting examples of 5.56 bonded bullet effects vs 300blk black tips out there?

 

[BikePilot]

I definitely wouldn’t want to be shot with either and would think both are up to the task. Another option if terminal ballistics at short range is a priority could be a Tavor 7 loaded with TAP 110.

 

[tex68w]

I've dropped many 200+ lb pigs with my 9" 300BLK, usually with black tip 110's. It is more than up to the task.

These are a standard on our property, no issue for the 300BLK.

 

[Fig]

Yea, well for those of us who already own a mess of suppressors and NFA items being on the Man's list another couple of times is nothing.

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^really nice pig....though it does needs a bath before dressing.

 

[Fig]

That’s Fig, not Pig!

 

[10X Rifles]

A PCC in .45 acp. 230 gr Hydrashocks . Will Kill goblins and hogs out to 50 yds. No over penetration.

 

[1911addict42]

I've dropped many 200+ lb pigs with my 9" 300BLK, usually with black tip 110's. It is more than up to the task.

These are a standard on our property, no issue for the 300BLK.

View attachment 7402652

That is a disgusting animal

 

[chuck3006]

I've dropped many 200+ lb pigs with my 9" 300BLK, usually with black tip 110's. It is more than up to the task.

These are a standard on our property, no issue for the 300BLK.

View attachment 7402652

I am new to this forum and have a 9" BCM 300BO upper. When you say "black tips" exactly what ammo are you referring to?

 

[tex68w]

I am new to this forum and have a 9" BCM 300BO upper. When you say "black tips" exactly what ammo are you referring to?

Barnes VOR-TX 300BLK 110 Grain TAC-TX Polymer Tipped

 

[chuck3006]

Barnes VOR-TX 300BLK 110 Grain TAC-TX Polymer Tipped

Thanks. I was hoping that was what you were going to answer. An acquaintance on another forum had mentioned that there had been some 300BO use in the sandbox using Barnes supersonics and the results were impressive. There are two Barnes offerings so I called Barnes and inquired as to the difference between the 110 and 120 gr loads. I was told that the 110 gr was designed for short barrels and loaded with faster burning powders and that the 120 gr was loaded with 16" barrels in mind. Before things got stupid I managed to acquire about 20 boxes of the 110 gr Barnes and that is my house load.

Have you done any pig hunting with subsonic loads? A friend back in KY has and if memory serves correctly he likes the L-Tech.

 

[HammerForged]

Curious on what you guys think of this one for terminal ballistics on 2 legged goblins. 16 inch 5.56 speed or 300blk Barnes blacktip goodness?

Lets assume you have both rifles, and you know how to work them both equally well. You're also right handed for the Tavor's sake. Which one stands out and why for a house weapon and an away from home or a general "uh oh I need a rifle weapon?"

Tavor: 16 inches of 5.56 throwing a 62g gold dot about 2900fps, surefire mini suppressor. Compm4 dot, aftermarket trigger. OAL is about 31 inches, notably heavier than ar, but well balanced.

AR SBR: 8 inches of 300blk throwing a Barnes 110 at just over 2kfps, surefire shorty supressor. Compm5 dot, LaRue trigger, law folder. OAL is 29.75 inches

I tend to lean to the tavor, but dang if i'm not getting cold feet leaving the AR in the safe.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

I do have both and I would choose the Tavor every day of the week. If I could only keep one home defense rifle that I currently have, I would keep the Tavor. It's a great platform. I have some great AR's, including a sub 5 lb 14.5 inch that I built and LOVE, but the length, shootability, balance, and legality (not a SBR) of the Tavor just outweigh my AR's.

 

[tex68w]

Thanks. I was hoping that was what you were going to answer. An acquaintance on another forum had mentioned that there had been some 300BO use in the sandbox using Barnes supersonics and the results were impressive. There are two Barnes offerings so I called Barnes and inquired as to the difference between the 110 and 120 gr loads. I was told that the 110 gr was designed for short barrels and loaded with faster burning powders and that the 120 gr was loaded with 16" barrels in mind. Before things got stupid I managed to acquire about 20 boxes of the 110 gr Barnes and that is my house load.

Have you done any pig hunting with subsonic loads? A friend back in KY has and if memory serves correctly he likes the L-Tech.

Yes, the ballistics aren't as good with the subs and the pigs still scatter after the first impact anyway so trying to be quiet isn't buying you anything other than cool points. I haven't been in a shoot house in years, but that was normally when I ran the subs, simply for the reducing the environmental impact in a closed space. I pull out the subs for buddies who have never shot suppressed, they always get a kick out of how quiet it is, range toy ammo IMHO.

The best subs I've used in regards to effectiveness on an animal are those from Lehigh Defense, the Controlled Chaos and Controlled Fracturing rounds but they are PRICEY.

 

[79steeler]

Hey Big Ben get back to Pittsburgh you have a game coming up!! Hahahaha!

I've dropped many 200+ lb pigs with my 9" 300BLK, usually with black tip 110's. It is more than up to the task.

These are a standard on our property, no issue for the 300BLK.

View attachment 7402652

 

[sparky702]

I have an 8.5 inch 300 blackout , with the barnes 110 grain ttsx I get a velocity of 2150 fps where I live the terrain and vegetation limit the distance from point blank to around 75 yds occasionally maybe 100 yds I have shot deer from 10 yds out to 100 and it will drop them in their tracks if you put the bullet where it's suppose to go . To be fair I have had the same results with hornady 110 grain v-max and nosler varmageddon 110 grain I have also killed deer with 220 grain out law state subs and hornady 190 grain subs . I can see no reason why it wouldn't work for home defense and to be fair I have killed deer with a 5.56 16 inch carbine with 64 grain Winchester power points and 70 grain barnes . I know 2 legged varmints are different than deer But for the original post I can find fault in neither , pick which one you can handle best train your ass off with your selection and call it good .