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5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

S

saojao

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 14, 2009
161
0
40
Virginia
Hello everyone,
I don't ever post here, but I thought I would share some details of a project that may be of some interest to the forum members here. I have been working with a few people for months to make this a reality, and finally we are almost finished! Our rifle system will shoot a 1,690 grain projectile(GS Custom Bullets) at 3,350 fps and the projectile will remain supersonic out to 5,000 + meters. Accuracy is .5 MOA to 3,000 yards. I really need to say thanks to everyone at GS Custom Bullets, especially Anthony for putting up with my constant phone calls and questions! As soon as I get the okay from Anthony and Gerrard I will post pics of the bullet. I know I'am being vague about cartridge design, caliber, etc..... This is the most powerful shoulder fired rifle in the
world! GS Custom bullets is also making a 1,015 grain bullet as well.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello everyone,
I don't ever post here, but I thought I would share some details of a project that may be of some interest to the forum members here. I have been working with a few people for months to make this a reality, and finally we are almost finished! Our rifle system will shoot a 1,690 grain projectile(GS Custom Bullets) at 3,350 fps and the projectile will remain supersonic out to 5,000 + meters. Accuracy is <span style="color: #FF0000">.5 MOA to 3,000 </span>yards. I really need to say thanks to everyone at GS Custom Bullets, especially Anthony for putting up with my constant phone calls and questions! As soon as I get the okay from Anthony and Gerrard I will post pics of the bullet. I know I'am being vague about cartridge design, caliber, etc..... This is the most powerful shoulder fired rifle in the
world! GS Custom bullets is also making a 1,015 grain bullet as well. </div></div>


Uh oh, please tell us more!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

what is the projectile made of
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CA48</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the projectile made of </div></div>

brass blessed by chuck norris
laugh.gif
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Projectile is copper. Anthony will be along shortly to give details!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

JD of SSK Industries has a 14.5mm (.585") weapon that throws a 1173 gr bullet and has sub MOA accuracy. He produces the custom cartridge based on the 50 BMG and builds complete weapons. My point here though is that he obtained a Destructive Device exemption (Sweet!).
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Sounds great. But do you have to sell a kidney for each shot? And do you have to rebarrel every 100 shots? It is definitely too rich for my blood. Would love to see the picture however. Damn, I wonder how many grains it takes to load up one of those projos? It's got to be more than 300 grains of powder for sure. And I thought the 50 BMG eats up a can of powder.LOL
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Barrel life is in the thousands, due to projectile design. I have never actually sat down to figure cost per round...$13-15 maybe less...as far as the charge...it's well over 300 grains.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JD of SSK Industries has a 14.5mm (.585") weapon that throws a 1173 gr bullet and has sub MOA accuracy. He produces the custom cartridge based on the 50 BMG and builds complete weapons. My point here though is that he obtained a Destructive Device exemption (Sweet!). </div></div>

I have had several long conversations with Mr. Jones...I can't say enough about him...great guy!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Yes, very knowledgable and very to the point. He is working on a special project for me right now. I should get it near Christmas time.

I am very interested in what you are working on. Please feed us more details as soon as you can!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Holy smokes this sounds extremely interesting!!!! Def sounds 20mm ish...
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Little Joe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CA48</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is the projectile made of </div></div>

brass blessed by chuck norris
laugh.gif
</div></div> LOL lost some beer on that!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Hey Agent "J", lol, thanks for the heads-up. Say Yes to Chuck Norris, and NO to brass...but then again, if it was Chuck's bullet, it would only be good for one shot, as the bullet would go around the earth (with zero loss of altitude) and strike the rifle, destroying itself...unless chuck willed it not to.

So, to the rifle, that's Jon's department. I can tell you it's called the 14.5 OPS, and it sounds like fun to shoot! It's not for the average shooter, or budget, that's for sure, but it's primary purpose is AMR/AMPR and HTI, as well as ultra-long range requirements, i.e. large village area coverage. It is purpose built, but no other rifle can provide the power, coverage, range or ability this rifle can. We are in the process of lightening it up for portability, as well as recoil reduction to the Military's 60 lb/ft limit. It's a process that takes time for sure.

As to the bullets...I can tell you the 1690 grain bullet possesses a B.C. of 2.118 and is all copper. And the 1015 grain bullet is a "Battle Field Dominator" concept bullet of the same basic principles as CT originated with the 408, but with 4 times more energy and 3 times more range.

Hope that helps.

-Anthony
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

How much does the rifle weight?

Wrongfully assuming that the propellant will contribute nothing to recoil, if the rifle weighs 60 pounds, it will be moving towards the shooter at approximately 13.5 fps when that bullet makes its exit. I'm thinking that's gonna leave a mark.

Recoil management system?
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Neglecting the effects of the propellant and assuming no recoil management, rifle weight needs to be 169 pounds to meet 60 ft-lb recoil energy requirement.

Can't wait to see this thing.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I thought smoking crack was illegal...

My question, <span style="font-style: italic">why would you ? </span>

especially when you consider :

Radio + Predator Drone = More Effective

Radio + Artillery = More Effective

Radio + Helicopter Gunship = More Effective

Radio + Fast Mover = More Effective

I can not think of one practical application to want to send a single round that far... because someone thought it up and says you can, doesn't make it practical.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

So when you rock up at the range and quietly set up the rig with little fuss, then proceed to pulling the trigger and blowing everyones eardrums clean out of their earmuffs whilst the muzzle blast knocks down every 100m target on the range - You can sit back with a smug smirk on your face, lapping up all the shocked and bewildered stares of all the other blokes scratching their heads around you who`ve suddenly taken stopped to take notice, and find solace in the thought... "yep, who the man now"
laugh.gif
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as far as the charge...it's well over 300 grains. </div></div>

Geez, sounds like quite a spear chucker or siege weapon
wink.gif
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought smoking crack was illegal...

My question, <span style="font-style: italic">why would you ? </span>

especially when you consider :

Radio + Predator Drone = More Effective

Radio + Artillery = More Effective

Your right! However.... Consider a Seal team out to take out a missle site... The can setup from as far away as need be, and disable a guidance system with a round or two. They can be in and out undetected... Total cost to the government? Less than $12... The target will have no idea what or who has struck... An artillery strike is not as low profile and the cost to the military is s "little higher." as to "why?" Well it's alot of fun!
smile.gif
On a serious note Crane has been looking for an AMR for sometime...

Radio + Helicopter Gunship = More Effective

Radio + Fast Mover = More Effective

I can not think of one practical application to want to send a single round that far... because someone thought it up and says you can, doesn't make it practical.

</div></div>
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Interesting from a technical perspective but close to useless from a practical one. What scope are you putting on this concept ?
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consider a Seal team out to take out a missle site... The can setup from as far away as need be, and disable a guidance system with a round or two. They can be in and out undetected... Total cost to the government? Less than $12...</div></div>

I'm afraid that you have neglected to include what it costs to deliver a SEAL team to an operational site. Lessee, start with the costs of submarines, SDVs, or airplanes...
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when you rock up at the range and quietly set up the rig with little fuss, then proceed to pulling the trigger and blowing everyones eardrums clean out of their earmuffs whilst the muzzle blast knocks down every 100m target on the range - You can sit back with a smug smirk on your face, lapping up all the shocked and bewildered stares of all the other blokes scratching their heads around you who`ve suddenly taken stopped to take notice, and find solace in the thought... "yep, who the man now"
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Groper I knew you would be along shortly!
smile.gif
anyways as far as muzzle blast the suppresor system we are working on should take care of alot of that... It's not as cumbersome as you may think! 45-50 lbs is not too bad! There have been some big names behind this and, we didn't build it to take "solace in being the man". There is a need for a AMR, so we designed something to meet that need, within the Navy's criteria...I would love to get it in the hands of the guys that could really use it.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The scope on the finished product will be from U.S. Optics. Muzzle energy is 38-40,000 ft lbs. at the muzzle.,,
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

It is very loosley based on the NTW...It is a bolt action rifle with recoil reduction built into the stock design. The suppresor will be a critical component of this rifle...we are hoping for huge gains in recoil reduction! The caliber is 14.5mm (14.5mm O.P.S.) hold ing out on rifle pics until we are finished. Will have pics of the 4 inch long bullet as soon as Anthony gets to it.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Wanna see some pics of the rifle and the bullet! Also if possible a video of a range day, like it is available from cheytac with their m200.
Sound like a one of a kind rifle, and I can´t wait to get more details and pics!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Bullets pics shortly... As soon as we get the final touches, suppresor etc. anyone who is in the Virginia area is more than welcome to come burn some powder with us lol! I just wish it was summer so we could get a BBQ in as well haha!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very loosley based on the NTW...It is a bolt action rifle with recoil reduction built into the stock design. The suppresor will be a critical component of this rifle...we are hoping for huge gains in recoil reduction! <span style="font-weight: bold">The caliber is 14.5mm (14.5mm O.P.S.) </span>hold ing out on rifle pics until we are finished. Will have pics of the <span style="font-weight: bold">4 inch long bullet</span> as soon as Anthony gets to it. </div></div>

Thanks a lot! the bullet will be something to behold...

Are you using gain twist with this monster?
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

No gain twist here! Not needed.... and I won't start that debate up again lol.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

This thread was certainly good for a laugh.

Why don't we just dismantle all the old guns off retired ships and let the guys carry them around??
wink.gif
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Kee-ryst! I'm w/LL on this one... It's a great answer. But what was the question, again...?
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Forgot to mention...It's important for people to understand we built the whole rifle around GS Customs projectile...we desinged the case around the projectile Gerrard designed. It really allowed the GS team to come up with the highest bc possible while still being stable!
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread was certainly good for a laugh.

Why don't we just dismantle all the old guns off retired ships and let the guys carry them around??
wink.gif
</div></div>

well I'll let the guys at Crane know that. They must be out of their minds for searching for an AMR rifle for the past 10 years! 45 lbs. broken down into 2 weight packages is hardly comparable to artillery piece! Ymmv though...
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Practical or not I appreciate reading on people pushing the limits. Why do it? I say because if everyone just shot 308's, life would be really boring. Way to go guys. I look forward to seeing your developments.

Have you actually shot .5 MOA at 3000 yards with this or is that a goal? 5 shot or 3 shot? I would love to see those groups if you have pictures
grin.gif
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

saojao, are you coupling this "rifle" with some advanced ballistic computer + laser downrange wind meter? Even the most powerful and accurate system will be at the mercy of the wind at extreme ranges.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I always thought if you took the hooker 375 bullet and expanded it up to 20mm and changed the rifling to stableize it. You would have a 4000 yard plus gun.This is what I was hoping Later was doing with his "diplomat" build.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

You are 100% correct! We have some pretty neat plans in place for that....little more complex than just a computer... I'll get into that later on..
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Thanks saojao, I was expecting a system like this would come with its own "environmental sensors" suite
smile.gif


What % of first yound hits are you expecting from this system on torso sized targets at 2000-2500-3000 m, under favourable conditions? What about 1.0 x 1.0 m targets at these distances and beyond?

Is it suited more for antipersonnel use (with the lighter bullet), or ordnance killer?
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I applaud those who push the limits. Thanks to those folks that don't know where the box is. If you don't care where the box is it's much easier to think outside it.
Congratulations and success with your project.
Semper Fi
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought smoking crack was illegal...

Your right! However.... Consider a Seal team out to take out a missle site... The can setup from as far away as need be, and disable a guidance system with a round or two. They can be in and out undetected... Total cost to the government? Less than $12... The target will have no idea what or who has struck... An artillery strike is not as low profile and the cost to the military is s "little higher." as to "why?" Well it's alot of fun!
smile.gif
On a serious note Crane has been looking for an AMR for sometime...


</div></div></div></div>

Ya, good luck with that...

1. Infiltrating them into a place like say, Iran, undetected so they can get to a FFP.

2. Find a place that gives them 5000 yards of un-obstructive sight

3. Engaging undetected with your cannon.

4. Getting them back out

Seems pretty risky for a team of men when you have unmanned vehicles available.

More like that fantasy ultimate mission that will never happen, what if ? I remember guns in the USMC who wouldn't get a tattoo too because they felt when the time came for the ultimate mission pick, the guys with the tattoos would be out.

If you could, over the last 25 years, name the situation where they used a team of people to go in over air power ?

Most high ranking individuals who order this stuff come from technical backgrounds, Carriers, Subs, Air... they get to make the choice who does what and rarely do they default to "SEAL" teams for over the horizon missions like that.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you could, over the last 25 years, name the situation where they used a team of people to go in over air power ?</div></div>

Frank,

With all due respect, I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that this HAS happened more than a few times in the past 25 and the powers that be decided not to inform you and I.

We KNOW that the Mossod knows that there is a time and a place for a scalpel, what makes you think that our SF haven't been used in this manner. If the whole mission is black, I doubt we'd hear about the shot.

More power to you guys coloring outside the lines.

.02

John
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The risk of capture and becoming a media circus far outweighs the benefits of a a single ELR shot...

I seem to recall when it wasn't close up, like person to person even the Israelis used a Jet on Iraq. As well as other places.

The world is not growing, it in fact is getting smaller, so distances are shrinking and not growing.

If the concept improves the accuracy of systems inside 2000 yards, go for it, but as been discussed, the size necessary and the weight is a very limiting factor. I for one dont' want to have to try and infiltrate a Nation State with the purpose of delivering a single round if I have to carry around a 35+ lbs system not including my personal support items. I think the CIA can pay a fringe group to bomb it and let them take the blame.

All due respect back, -- I like to think in a practical fashion, not some fantasy of the ultimate mission to take out a missile secretly with no one being the wiser.
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I for one dont' want to have to try and infiltrate a Nation State with the purpose of delivering a single round if I have to carry around a 35+ lbs system not including my personal support items. I think the CIA can pay a fringe group to bomb it and let them take the blame. </div></div>

You raise a good point here. (although I think the weight would be more even broke in two if you count ammo)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like to think in a practical fashion, not some fantasy of the ultimate mission to take out a missile secretly with no one being the wiser. </div></div>

I've learned this about you and respect your view. I do however think that practical applicable technology trickles out of boondoggles like lunar landings and 3 mile sniper rifles
wink.gif
, so as long as somebody else is paying the bill, I say go at it...

John
 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

There might be a need for weapons that can address targets in more conventional scenarios (A-stan), where traditional supporting arms (air/arty) are either not available, or have to be cleared through higher authorities that make timing unresponsive.

5000 meters is a long ways, but operationally, 2000-3000 meter engagements might be useful in a direct-fire weapon (as apposed to mortars). I'm not talking about "covert ops" but rather, regular fighting units employing a weapon from prepared fighting positions, outposts, rooftops, or other relatively overt locations.

Right now our troops are fighting with their hands tied, due to restrictions on supporting arms.

This might not be the answer, or come to full fruition. But, development and experimentation of weapons is pretty much the history of civilization. It would be a shame to stop now......grin

 
Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

How do you estimate the hold on a moving target at that distance on troops ?

You better hope they are in a group... where do you train to practice moving targets at 2500m+ ?

Infantry units have mortars organic, and I would suspect are more effective. Not sure what Marine BN you were in, we had Weapons section with Heavy Guns, 81s, 60s, etc.
 
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