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50bmg ball to hollow point conversion

rifleman1981

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Jan 8, 2010
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nw oklahoma
Before all the bullshit gets started flying I wanna clarify a few things. I am a long range shooter, this is not a long range precision project. I’ve got access to a ton of 50bmg 650 grain ball ammo and we shoot a lot of pigs, and are infested with them. We guide hunts and I recently acquired a mcmillian tac-50 rifle, and was thinking about chucking a bunch of these surplus bullets up in my lathe and turning them into hollow points to use while guiding to amplify the effect of the bullet. I’m sure somebody else has done it, but I couldn’t find any info on the subject anywhere. It may be a complete waste of time due to the design of the ball ammo, or because it’s just too time consuming to justify but as many surplus bullets as I’ve got access to I wanted to explore it as an option if it’s viable. Reasonable articulate input is appreciated, as well as any firsthand experience. Usually I wouldn’t even mess with the process but good 50 cal bullets are stupid expensive.
 
I am im for the info. My first thought is the reloading data since you are going to be removing quite a bit of material weight. If you can get it to work....the result should be "explosive"
 
Explosive is exactly what I’m looking for, I figured it would remove maybe 20 grains which shouldn’t be much of a change in velocity when playing with that much weight.
 
I think I'd use the lathe to make a tool to do the work using a cordless drill. Make a cartridge holder that indexes off the case shoulder maybe, then a meplat trimmer and drill bit combo cutting tool (sorta like a counter sink bit) that will only cut so deep. Seems to me like with such a tool the actual "hollowpointing" wouldn't take much time or effort, especially when compared to setting up a lathe for every round.
 
Interesting project. My only input would be to think about:

1. The distances required so the impact velocity gets low enough so they don't still just pencil through, and

2. Can you remove enough jacket from the inside of the nose to peel back while still containing the lead core upon firing.

I honestly wonder if a piggy even needs the hollowpoint treatment, and I don't own a 50BMG, but this is a cool idea.
 
Um... The core on most of these M33 ball is steel.
This is true. In fact, if it is the real deal M33, it's not MOST, rather it's ALL. I don't think the bullet will expand no matter what flesh it hits, hollow point or not, but I am not positive. Those things are only leaving the barrel at something like 2950 fps.
 
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I never said they were under performing, they just poke a hole. Standby for pictures of the pig problem.
 
We kill them by the 30’s and 40’s, load them with a front end loader and haul them off with a wheat truck. We have killed over 700 in the last few years.
 

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M33 is 660 grain, steel cored. Op stated 650 grain, is that a typo or is it not m33 ball and somewhere manufacturer

Either way expansion with M33 is extremely unlikely
 
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If you’re guiding just get 750 AMAX and pass on the cost to customers and save the 660s for something else. Too much time hassle and uncertainty
 
I’m having a hard time buying that something putting out ocer 12,000 lbs of energy at the muzzle isn’t dropping a pig like a rock. Pass through hole or exploding… that’s an insane amount of shock to a body.
 
I've shot Pigs with .50 big in S Oklahoma, and yes it works, and it's not so much "needle" through as the amount of displaced tissue is huge. One smaller boar was hit high, quartering shot, it ripped the spine and half of the lungs out mainly by just splitting tissue

This was 660gn ball ammo too
 
You should open it yo the public and charge admission!!
If you actually have a problem, you should have contract exterminators bidding for a job. Otherwise you have a hobby, or a windfall income opportunity.
 
Helicopters, AR15s and trained killers are in order
 
If you actually have a problem, you should have contract exterminators bidding for a job. Otherwise you have a hobby, or a windfall income opportunity.
We have 3 sets of pens that we trap out of and drop remotely by phone, and we have a guy who flies it periodically with a helicopter.
 
If anyone is serious about going feel free to pm me. We really do exactly what I stated, $600 per gun per night with no limit. We usually provide the rifles, suppressors, thermal and ammo. We have a lot of guys wanna bring their own guns but the pigs we have are all nocturnal and unless your running thermal or good night vision, that’s a waste of time.
 
$600 per gun? Do you pay cash and do you reimburse for ammo if I shoot a bunch of them?
 
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If anyone is serious about going feel free to pm me. We really do exactly what I stated, $600 per gun per night with no limit. We usually provide the rifles, suppressors, thermal and ammo. We have a lot of guys wanna bring their own guns but the pigs we have are all nocturnal and unless your running thermal or good night vision, that’s a waste of time.
Hell, that's a day trip for me. I might have to hit you up and go sometime.

Mike
 
Help! Our farm is over run by mice. I’ve got mice in my barn. Come help me control my problem. Just $20 each. No limit. No trophy fee. 2 day minimum hunt. $179 per night lodging. 4 hunter minimum to book.

That’s not a problem. It’s a business venture…
 
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There is no need to hollow point them for hogs… the hydrostatic shock will kill them perfectly dead.

That said, as an exercise, it is an interesting one. I would suggest a collet and a couple of operations… first, a cutting tool to cut a small meplat on the tip. Then a small centering drill that will be rigid enough to not bend.

I don’t think I have any ball… but lots of API. I’ll play with a couple tomorrow and see if I can work up the right set of machining operations. I like the intellectual challenge in this!

Cheers, Sirhr
 
There is no need to hollow point them for hogs… the hydrostatic shock will kill them perfectly dead.

That said, as an exercise, it is an interesting one. I would suggest a collet and a couple of operations… first, a cutting tool to cut a small meplat on the tip. Then a small centering drill that will be rigid enough to not bend.

I don’t think I have any ball… but lots of API. I’ll play with a couple tomorrow and see if I can work up the right set of machining operations. I like the intellectual challenge in this!

Cheers, Sirhr
That’s awesome, I appreciate the perspective.
 
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Damn, didn't realize Pigs had got that far into OK, we shoot hundreds further south. Between Ardmore and waurika

The traps your using - BoarBuster ????
Started out with a boat buster, absolutely hate it. The other two are bull creek, they are 1/2 again easier to use and work better and are easier to dismantle and set up.
 
Sounds like your trapping efforts are you best course of action to get rid of them. Here in Western Kentucky Fish and Wildlife don't want you to shoot them. If you notify them they will come out and trap them and then dispatch them. Seems pigs aren't so dumb and will learn how to avoid being shot at and continue to grow in numbers like rabbits. The trapping seems to be the fastest and best way to get rid of them.
 
So as promised, I played with this a bit. Not shot any. But wanted to play with the 'concept.' And, again, I doubt that a pig (short of Hogzilla's) offers enough density to allow a .50 to expand. It would zip right through, but the hydrostatic shock would completely destroy internals... So thinking of this as a way to create a hollow point that would open up in a hog? IMHO, not a chance.

That said... the hollow point concept is a bit of a path to accuracy. And .50 pulls aren't known for their accuracy. So as a concept, this might may be a way to improve the accuracy of cheap 'plinking' ball ammo in some of the better BMG's.

So started with API. I don't recommend doing this to API or APIT as these have some incendiary compounds in them that are not compatible with heat, friction, sparks... the things that occur during machining. So when I did this, it was with lots of oil and tiny cuts to keep things cool. For Ball ammo (which I didn't have handy) you can do some cool stuff, I think. But don't do it with the Incendiary, Tracer, API or APIT. Please.

So here is what I started with. Note these are cheap surplus pulls. Not pretty. Big marks on them. Fine to load for beltfed or plinker. But not accuracy-oriented. The tip is silver, for API. Nose is... rounded and not even. Not the kind of thing that is going to give you good 1000-2000 repeatability. Started by carefully filing off the raised edges from the puller so it would seat cleanly in a lathe collet.

meplat 6.jpg



So after spinning it in the collet front and rear, used Scotchbrite to clean the crud off it and overall 'clean it up.' Note that the pull marks are still there, but the raised areas are gone. The bright spots near the pull marks are the 'smoothed' area. This was put in the collet again and trued. The truing was the most time-consuming part of the operation. None of these were nicely round so that they would spin true in a collet. FYI, I took a .338 from Badlands and put it in a collet and it spun dead nuts. These, either becaues they are just bulk produced or pulls... did not spin true. So had to tap the tip around until it spun true.

meplat 5.jpg


Once it spun true, I used a carbide tool and cut .025" off the OAL to create a Meplat. I actually cut just to the point where I was exposing the core. That seemed to be .025. Your mileage on ball may vary. But as soon as I could see the little 'core' dot, I'd stop. PS. I 'did' measure the OAL after cutting and to 'just' expose the core was .025".


meplat 4.jpg


Once the little core was exposed, I used a centering drill. This is a very rigid drill used to create the taper in the end of a piece of stock so that it could go in a live center/tailstock center. This one is 1/4" diameter shank and about a 1/16" drill.

meplat 3.jpg


With the centering drill, cut a small hollow point, stopping before reaching the shoulder of the drill. Probably about 1/8" deep. This removed a very tiny amount of material, leaving a nice hollow point and definitely extending into the core. I believe that against a thick enough target, it would expand. By thick enough target, I mean an elephant, rhino or blue whale. Sorry Greenpeace. Against a pig, this would probably not even begin to expand before it passes through. I could be wrong, though. This is just what I 'Think' based on experience with the .50.

meplat 2.jpg


Last, I cleaned the bullet up with some 800 grit paper and some Brasso... just make a nice photo.

meplat 1.jpg


So... how will these perform? Honestly, I don't know. Here is what I 'think:'

I 'think' that if done with ball bullet pulls (and I need to order a can of them... or get someone here to send me some), we would get a round that 'might' expand in a deep enough target. That said, Ball has a steel core (even though it's not technically AP). But you may get the bullet to fold back and possibly release the core. Maybe. If I had to shoot the shark from Jaws... I'd possibly be happy with this.

More likely, I think these would give some much better accuracy/repeatability results than regular pulls (with rounded nose and nasty puller marks.) Somewhere between turned copper solid match rounds... and straight pulls. I think this improvement will come from two areas.. first, cleaning up the high spots and the like that will affect the bullet as it goes in the case and then engages the rifling. The second is that the hollow point will provide much better external ballisttics, acting like a match hollow point and creating that 'pad' of air that is much better than the dome of the standard ammo.

IF I am right (big IF)... this could make such a 'conversion' worthwhile given the cost of copper solids. I figure that once I get 'in the groove' I could probably do about 40 - 50 of these conversions per hour. And if I could get good results out of them, that would be worth doing for some 'better than plinking but not quite match' rounds. Something I am going to pursue more of... or maybe someone else wants to give it a try.

Again, for the OP... don't bother with hogs. But for those who want to shoot a BMG 'cheaper and better,' it's worth a try. I am definitely going to get some Ball and make 50 rounds up... and try an accuracy test!

Hope this is interesting to someone. The 'machining' was not hard. The big question is whether it's a waste of time or gives a noticeable improvement in performence.

And again... DO THIS WITH BALL ONLY. Don't fuck around with pyrotechnics... I did it for expedience and with much care. BALL ONLY!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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^That's over the top man! Pretty cool. The fact that the core is hit so shallow makes it seem like this will be of little practical value.

About 5 years ago I took my 50 BMG (with 750 AMAX) Prairie Dog hunting in KS. The guys were sooooo excited to "blow one up" with the 50.

Shot one standing 150 yards out straight through the torso. No "explosion" whatever - just a simple through and through injury.

I bet the AMAX will do a number on the hogs though. They do on deer. :)
 
Most people don’t realize just how solid a hog is. These wild hogs have a layer of fat and a layer of gristle over their muscle, and they are tough to kill sometimes. A hog is way denser than a deer, I’m gonna try exactly what you just did and I’ll report the results later in the difference between ball, modified ball, and the amax.
 
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Regarding the API rounds, maybe just shoot them as-is, since the 15 grains of IM-11 flash powder in the tip WILL detonate inside the hog and expand the jacket. The Ballistic High-Speed guys on YouTube actually filmed a slow-motion video of it shot into a gel torso simulant target, and you can clearly see the round detonate inside. Look for ".50 Cal API vs Ballistic Torso! - Ballistic High-Speed"
 
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BallnLehigh.jpg


Don't know if this will help at all but these I've shot into a mud bank (redneck ballistic jelly). Side by side. The mud was silt deposited behind a breakwater, still saturated with water and soft enough to push a "karate chop" hand in about 5". Both were subsonic at about 1020, 690gn ball (center) and 725gn Lehigh (left and right) prefractured with a .243 soft point in the cavity (included in the weight).

The Lehigh went about 16" deep, the displacement cavity was about 8" diameter and looked to begin about 3" into the mud and run almost the length of the penetration. Diameter quickly decreased to nothing at about 14" deep. All of the prefractured petals were broken off and not found. Only the slug base, from end of the prefracture to the back end was recovered.

The ball slug went deeper than 20" and was not found. The displacement cavity diameter was constant, about 3" and about 16" long. I couldn't fell the bullet path after that and quit digging at 20".

The Lehigh slugs are harder to come by since they sold to another company. I'm going to mimic the work by Sirhr on some SA 690gn ball slugs I have, however will probably pursue a somewhat different path. Namely to create a hole that will accept, with push, a soft point bullet of smaller diameter to try and "jump start" the expansion.

Lehigh also sold a .338 version of their prefractured bullets. Those apparently disappeared after the company sold, still looking for some though.

Thank you,
MrSmith
 
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Don't know if this will help at all but these I've shot into a mud bank (redneck ballistic jelly). Side by side. The mud was silt deposited behind a breakwater, still saturated with water and soft enough to push a "karate chop" hand in about 5". Both were subsonic at about 1020, 690gn ball (center) and 725gn Lehigh (left and right) prefractured with a .243 soft point in the cavity (included in the weight).

The Lehigh went about 16" deep, the displacement cavity was about 8" diameter and looked to begin about 3" into the mud and run almost the length of the penetration. Diameter quickly decreased to nothing at about 14" deep. All of the prefractured petals were broken off and not found. Only the slug base, from end of the prefracture to the back end was recovered.

The ball slug went deeper than 20" and was not found. The displacement cavity diameter was constant, about 3" and about 16" long. I couldn't fell the bullet path after that and quit digging at 20".

The Lehigh slugs are harder to come by since they sold to another company. I'm going to mimic the work by Sirhr on some SA 690gn ball slugs I have, however will probably pursue a somewhat different path. Namely to create a hole that will accept, with push, a soft point bullet of smaller diameter to try and "jump start" the expansion.

Lehigh also sold a .338 version of their prefractured bullets. Those apparently disappeared after the company sold, still looking for some though.

Thank you,
MrSmith
When Wilson Combat bought out Lehigh, they cut the product offerings drastically. All .510 diameter stuff went away, which is a shame since I really liked the Match Solid line. Now I have to develop new loads with Cutting Edge MTAC slugs instead. And there is no replacement for the quite interesting .458-diameter 528 grain Match Solid. I got those suckers humming along at 2186 fps from a .458 Win Mag in a single-shot rifle.