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Range Report 5R rifling......what is the truth?

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....and yes, I have searched for the answers myself, but Remy's 5R has buried the info far too deep. And I already know it's Boot Obermeyer's, "R" for Russian, etc.


What are the true advantages that the 5R rifling can offer me? Longer barrel life? Accuracy? Velocity? I have seen it referenced that there is supposed to be less gas leakage...?
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

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& :scratchinghead: I thought the "R" stood for 'radiused' -as in the lands have a radius instead of a sharp angle. Supposedly less fouling and bullet/jacket distortion for better accuracy. Meditation at your computer station will foster stronger 'Google-fu'
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Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

Remington's 5R is/was supplied by Mike Rock / Rock Creek barrels. Mike and John Krieger both apprenticed under Boots Obermeyer. I don't think Boots invented the whole Radius groove concept. I seem to remember it came about in the muzzle loader era and Boots just reincarnated it with modern technology. One of the theorized benefits is that the odd number of grooves helps the bullet obterate better since there is a land opposite each groove instead of grooves opposite grooves as with even numbers of grooves and that the radiused grooves also help with obteration and therefore less bullet deformation, better gas seal and potentially higher velocity. All this is nice in theory but who really cares whats inside the tube as long as all the bullets go into one tiny hole.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remington hammer forges thier 5R now.
</div></div>

that is too bad
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

Why is it bad? It has been like that for ages, and nobody complains about their excellent accuracy and high round count.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

as long as they arent deep throated like alot of their sps's, my cousin had a round that wouldnt chamber in his savage 10fcp and it chambered fine in my rem 700 sps varmint, i put it in the case gauge and it was about 1/16" out the end of the gauge, no wonder im having problems finding the lands in my gun
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is it bad? It has been like that for ages, and nobody complains about their excellent accuracy and high round count. </div></div>

Hyperbole at best, look at all the matches today-benchrest,tactical,highpower-all are won by single point CUT RIFLED barrels. Not to say a hammerforged barrel is bad-case in point the SAKO TRG 22/42. The factory remington barrel is shit compared to a Bartlein, Mike Rock, Obermeryer....
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

And yet people still buy Shilen barrels, which are all button rifled from what I understand.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

Wow,
I'm amazed to hear hammer forged rem. barrels are called shit with all the 5r's smacking steel right beside much higher $ guns. LT, sir, I humbly submit that in general the customs will beat the hammer forged on average by maybe .2-.3 moa on groups(these guns aren't even blue printed though, so thats a BIG other can of worms making direct comparison favor a custom), but I think shit is a little harsh wording for the barrel. The milspec has a couple of other quirks mainly due to stock ergonomics and triggers(the should call it the improbability trigger instead of x-mark). There are quite a few shot on the mountain besides mine which has grouped 5 175's into just over an inch on a good day at 300yds and have shot several groups on steel at 700 or so that were well sub moa on fresh paint. Once on a target at 1000, if wind stays similar I hit what I can see after a spot. Maybe a foot dia rock lets say in my 10x so-so Leupold(no, I am not jk-I know they aint all that).I have tested scenar loads at 500ish that were well 1/2 moa loads for 5 or 7 rds. in mine and they shot the same in 2 other rifles. MOST of the matches I know of are being won with guys that shoot 3x in ammo what my rifle cost. They have the $$$$ to put on a GAP or APA to get a first tier rifle. I think if they shot a match with a 5r or an m-24 they would do pretty dang close to what they do with the big money rifles. Or even a step further, put a 5r or m-24 rem production barrel trued up on a blueprinted 700 action in a bedded McMillan or AICS. Hmm... Anyone dare to guess that they would be a little more accurate? There is a difference, undeniable. Benchrest hands down a hairs edge matters. Most here aren't talking BR. I don't know where the burnout point on the 5R's are hitting. I know of several shooters I have spoken with who have over 3-5k on a barrel still going. Mine has a couple thousand on it now. No signs of accuracy decreasing. You .mil guys get M-118 lr,so I can't see a comparison to Corbon or hand rolled there, and many using it have said its solid moa(my rifle showed 2x .75-.80 groups in my 5r) ammo. If it makes it 6k rounds I'll consider it a success as I know guys who said they replace high $ 308 barrels at that level of use. Have a good one, a cold one, or preferably both.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

Today, with all that is available to us-to shoot and shoot well-barrels make a BIG difference. Yeah, I have 4 GAP sticks and an AI-still, one of the best sticks I've ever shot was a TRG22.

I'm talking F-class, 600-100yards, and extreme longrange-the most important part of the equation is the NUT(more than likely-LOOSE)behind the trigger. Take the SAME shooter-and give him the better stick-after all is said and done-THAT shooter will do better with the better barrel.MY point. Not to say a factory Remington can't do the job. In my former employment-I spent some time there. We will have to agree to disagree.

I do however,appreciate the civil discussion of same. And I am indeed having one-its cold too- STOLI-in the freezer!!!
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The factory remington barrel is shit compared to a Bartlein, Mike Rock, Obermeryer....</div></div>
While the 3 barrel manufacturers you list are my top 3 choices, I know where a Rem. 5r tube is that will run along side any .308 out there. Guaranteed.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matchking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The factory remington barrel is shit compared to a Bartlein, Mike Rock, Obermeryer....</div></div>
While the 3 barrel manufacturers you list are my top 3 choices, I know where a Rem. 5r tube is that will run along side any .308 out there. Guaranteed. </div></div>

Just wait until you take that tube off-true it up and put any of those you mentioned on your stick. You'll be a dead eye,straight shootin' MF'er!!! LOL. Yes, some 5r's do indeed shoot well. But IMHO, Remington QC isn't what it used to be.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

I don't have the tube anymore (a Rock is on it now), but I do know where it is @ the moment.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

ki<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is it bad? It has been like that for ages, and nobody complains about their excellent accuracy and high round count. </div></div>

Hyperbole at best, look at all the matches today-benchrest,tactical,highpower-all are won by single point CUT RIFLED barrels. Not to say a hammerforged barrel is bad-case in point the SAKO TRG 22/42. <span style="font-weight: bold">The factory remington barrel is shit compared to a Bartlein, Mike Rock, Obermeryer.... </span></div></div>

I just wanted to point out that the only remington rifles that had Rock barrels were the first series of the M24 (starting in 1988)... shortly thereafter they changed to their own 5R rifles made by hammer forging, and the M24 reputation is built on those barrels. Maybe they are not benchrest class rifles, but nobody complains about their accuracy or barrel life.

The commercial 5R barrels are made in the same machines, different profile, and it is not clear is there is any quality difference with the M24 barrels.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

i own and have owned all three, the VS generally outshot the 5R.
The only difference in precision I noted with the 5R was that it shot better with a squeaky clean bore vs. the LTR and VS.

While I don't think any factory Rem is crap, experience does not reinforce the common touts of the 5R.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

truth is that mine shoots. I can't complain for a factory rifle. Hell my old man & I were out yesterday w/ mine. He almost shit his pants when he saw the group I shot w/ factory Rem. match 168 fodder. CCB and the following two shots were all in the same hole. Then I got a little worked up and threw the 4th. The 5th went right back in on top of the first 3. He then saddled up on the bench and proceeded to shoot what he described as "the best group I ever shot w/ factory ammo in such terrible conditions....he got up from the table twice cuz he couldn't see the target...the scope picture was horrible looking directly south on an inclined range yesterday, LOL! I had to talk him into sitting back down and "just see what you can do." both times.
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I shot the top group w/ CCB, #2, #3 and #5 all going into the cluster in the center, #4 is the one to the right. Pop's group is the bottom, sequence is written down somewhere....
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

The 5R barrel on the 700SS is indeed a hammer-forged barrel and while it is not the equivalent of a custom barrel, the entire rifle can be had for a grand and it shoots well enough. I have an LTR that went through Remington's custom shop which has always shot .25-.5 MOA and so far the 700SS has matched it. I've only owned it for a couple months so I have yet to shoot it out beyond 300 yards. I also haven't developed a specific load for it. I've been just running virgin Lapua brass, 165 gr. Accubonds on top of 44.5 grains of Varget. The throat is shorter than the LTR's so I may try some Berger VLDs, although I'm sticking with mag. length seating at most.

At some point, one or the other of them will get rebarreled with a new Krieger or Lilja but I was glad to save the money for more ammo and a PH 3-15. Yes, I'd love to have a custom rifle with that same scope, but I'm not unhappy with the compromise I made and I also want to stay married.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

I just got a 5r and shot it for the first time today. Decent range condition, light breeze, 68 and partly cloudy. At 100 I was getting around .75 inch 3 shot groups with some OLD Fed GMM 168s. For break-in I ran a patch every 3 rounds as this was my first outing. I have a Leupold scope on and she's box stock. Overall I'm quite impressed. Excellent value that will definitely outshoot me.
 
Re: 5R rifling......what is the truth?

I've got one (Rem. 5R in a different, bedded stock, good trigger) that will shoot 5 shot groups in the high .1's and low .2's, has about 700 rounds through it, and what is crazy, it has a freebore of almost .200", and I'm shooting mag length rounds, I don't understand it.

I have some high dollar guns that won't shoot with it.