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Rifle Scopes 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

ccollier

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 28, 2009
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Preston, GA
I posted this over on the rimfire section also. I am looking for some info on the S&B 5X25. I was wondering if any of you have used your scope at 50yds. and under and how well the parallax adjusts at those ranges? Thanks
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

again I think the lowest she goes is 100M certainly not less tahn 50Meters.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

reticle lines are kinda thick at 25x on the S&B's for that kind of work. Don't think it would serve you for a rimfire at such close distances.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

They adjust for parallax down to 10 meters. I have shot mine down to 11 feet at a match.

Get the P4F with the 5-25x56. Good reticle even at higher powers.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

I stand corrected
smile.gif
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

^^^The 5-25 does? My 4-16 only adjusts down to 50m.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

Yes the 5-25x does. From the S&B site:

5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP
True 2000-meter capability. Unlike most long-range variables that offer only a 4x magnification multiple, the 5-25 x 56 provides a full 5x and a wider field of view. Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They adjust for parallax down to 10 meters. I have shot mine down to 11 feet at a match.

Get the P4F with the 5-25x56. Good reticle even at higher powers. </div></div>

Kinda the only high end who does go that short.....
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

My Super Sniper went down to 10m.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Super Sniper went down to 10m. </div></div>
You consider this High end? I consider the SS a mid end scope.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

if the scope for this rimfire gun costs $3k ...wonder how much the gun costs?
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if the scope for this rimfire gun costs $3k ...wonder how much the gun costs? </div></div>

I was thinking the same thing... but then I just ordered an S&B 5-25 PMII for my SPS-T, so I don't have much room to talk.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They adjust for parallax down to 10 meters. I have shot mine down to 11 feet at a match.

Get the P4F with the 5-25x56. Good reticle even at higher powers.</div></div>

11 feet??? What kind of match was this rob?
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">heh </div></div>

I know, but as one of my shooting mentors said - the S&B will last a lifetime while the SPS is simply a foundation for a custom rifle down the road. So it does make some perverse sense to put a $3200 scope on a $450 rifle.
grin.gif
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^The 5-25 does? My 4-16 only adjusts down to 50m. </div></div>
Your 50M parallax bottom is correct on your PMII 4-16X. In fact, according to the S & B USA, Inc. web site, all PMII variables' with the exception of the 1.1-4X Short Dot have the same Parallax adjustment range of "<span style="font-style: italic">50 meters to infinity</span>".

The 1-4X Short Dot is listed as being <span style="font-style: italic">"Parallax free at 100 meters"</span>, which is the same as the other Short Dots. The new 1-8X Short Dot has a 100M parallax-free setting, but also has a 25M "CC" parallax-free setting.

Having played with PMII 4-16Xs', 3-12Xs', and 5-25Xs', only the 5-25Xs' have a 10 (meter) setting on the Parallax knob. My experience has been that the 5-25Xs' will adjust down to 10 meters (33 feet) at full power, but will actually focus quite a bit lower if you dial down the magnification a bit. Strangely, the S & B web site doesn't make mention of this, although I could swear that I saw this in print <span style="font-style: italic">(no, not on the internet)</span> somewhere.

The description of the 5-25X (56mm) on the main PMII page expressly lists <span style="font-style: italic">"Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity."</span> S & B should change the info on the PMII 5-25X specification pop-up sheet to correctly read <span style="font-style: italic">"10 meters to infinity"</span>. It currently and incorrectly reads <span style="font-style: italic">"Parallax adjustable from 50m to infinity"</span>.

Below are all of the PMII variable spec sheets listed on the S & B USA, Inc. web site. With the exception of the 1.1-4X Short Dot, all PMII <span style="font-style: italic">variable</span> specs read <span style="font-style: italic">"Parallax adjustable from 50m to infinity"</span>. The Parallax range is listed at the upper right corner of the specs page under <span style="font-style: italic">"General Data"</span>.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 1.1-4X 20 Short Dot specifications</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 3-12X 50mm specifications</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 3-12X 50mm LP specifications</span></span>

<a href="http://www.schmidtbender.com/PMspecs3_12x50Military.htm
" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 3-12X 50mm Military specifications</span></span></a>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 4-16X 50mm specifications</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 4-16X 42mm specifications</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 4-16X 50mm LP specifications</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII 5-25X 56mm LP specifications</span></span>


Keith
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccollier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted this over on the rimfire section also. I am looking for some info on the S&B 5X25. I was wondering if any of you have used your scope at 50yds. and under and how well the parallax adjusts at those ranges? Thanks </div></div>
I rarely shoot my .22s' at less than 100 yards, but I do like to zero them at 50 (yards) just so I don't have to hold under if I need to shoot at 50. That said, the PMII 5-25X has a 10 (meter) setting on the Parallax knob and will focus perfectly at full power (25X) at 10 meters (33 feet). It will actually focus much closer if you dial the magnification down a little.


Keith
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

I've got a Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25x56 mounted on my Sako TRG-S .338 Lapua. I bought the rifle with 55 rounds of brass for $550 so that puts the rifle right around $495. Its kind of strange when you think about it, but after using the S&B I wouldn't have anything else. Even stranger is that the cost of the mounts and rings combined was approaching the cost of the rifle (I paid a pro to install the picatinny 1 piece mount).

And I do like the ability to focus at 10M. For all that short range work I do with my .338
smile.gif
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the 5-25x does. From the S&B site:

5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP
True 2000-meter capability. Unlike most long-range variables that offer only a 4x magnification multiple, the 5-25 x 56 provides a full 5x and a wider field of view. Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity. </div></div>
The FOV factor of the S&B 5-25x is 3.53x as per the field of view specs on the home page, so FOV on low power is actually smaller than it would be with a 4x ratio but without the extreme tunneling effect. Nice try though.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the 5-25x does. From the S&B site:

5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP
True 2000-meter capability. Unlike most long-range variables that offer only a 4x magnification multiple, the 5-25 x 56 provides a full 5x and a wider field of view. Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity. </div></div>
The FOV factor of the S&B 5-25x is 3.53x as per the field of view specs on the home page, so FOV on low power is actually smaller than it would be with a 4x ratio but without the extreme tunneling effect. Nice try though. </div></div>

Yea your right.....now we all know they are a POS.....
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea your right.....now we all know they are a POS.....</div></div>

I know right, I can't believe anyone actually bought one
AnimatedRollingEyesSmiley.gif
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

What do you guys expect from David S.?????? He is a Premier employee in Germany.He got ultra pissy with me when i said that he wasnt expounding on the whole truth about Premier getting the USMC contract, he strategically left out key details that made it sound as if all the USMC SBs were going to be replaced lickity split with PH 3-15s
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The FOV factor of the S&B 5-25x is 3.53x as per the field of view specs on the home page, so FOV on low power is actually smaller than it would be with a 4x ratio but without the extreme tunneling effect. Nice try though. </div></div>

Thanks for pointing that out, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">again</span></span>.

I didn't realize my 5-25 PMII's were such pieces of crap.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

Guys, I made a comment about numbers in a spec sheet that don't support the claim in the text, that's all. If we can't even talk about numbers in an objective manner any more, then what's left to talk about at all? There's really no reason to get all grumpy because your pet brand isn't perfect in every way. No scope is, the OP for example would be ill-advised to get a Premier for his specific application because the Heritage scopes' parallax adjustment only goes down to 50m. Now am I bashing "my" own product by saying this or am I maybe just stating the obvious?

deadly0311, considering that our conversation evolved around you questioning the truth of my statement that we have received a substantial order from the USMC, effectively publicly accusing me of a lie about a subject that you obviously have no first hand knowledge about, I think we had an absolutely civil conversation. If that was "ultra pissy" to you, I hope you'll never get into a real argument.

By the way, my occupation is in my signature in order to give everyone the opportunity to judge for himself whether my statements are biased.

Answering the observation that 5.3 divided by 1.5 equals 3.53 with "You work for the competition!!!" is bordering on ridiculousness though.



Edit: I realize that you are probably getting caught up in the "Nice try"-part of my statement. That was directed at the text that is making claims not supported by the specs, not at the scope itself. The scope in my opinion was the best on the market at the time of introduction, and of course it still is a very good scope. It has been surpassed in some areas though, and I don't think it should be considered heresy to point that out. Sorry for my bad wording.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the 5-25x does. From the S&B site:

5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP
True 2000-meter capability. Unlike most long-range variables that offer only a 4x magnification multiple, the 5-25 x 56 provides a full 5x and a wider field of view. Parallax adjustment in a separate turret, completely adjustable from 10 meters to infinity. </div></div>
The FOV factor of the S&B 5-25x is 3.53x as per the field of view specs on the home page, so FOV on low power is actually smaller than it would be with a 4x ratio but without the extreme tunneling effect. Nice try though. </div></div>

David I cut and paste that from their site. I wasn't trying to do anything other than give the poster the info he was asking about. But thanks for coming on being a smart ass.

Oh and where is the Premier link in your sig line?

Palmik, that shot was at the Snipers Hide Cup and was simulating a real world sniper shot.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

The 5-25 was designed for use with air rifles as well as center fire rifles that is why it focuses down to such short distances.

When I got my first 4-16 and found that it wouldn't focus as close as the 5-25 I asked why and this is what I was told by an S&B engineer.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">David I cut and paste that from their site. I wasn't trying to do anything other than give the poster the info he was asking about. But thanks for coming on being a smart ass.

Oh and where is the Premier link in your sig line?</div></div>
My statement wasn't directed at you personally, I'm well aware that you were quoting from the website.

If you follow the link in my sig line, you will see how Optronika and Premier are connected, and since I work for the former and we also have a somewhat informative website now as opposed to some time ago, I found it appropriate to put that link in my signature exclusively.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Super Sniper went down to 10m. </div></div>
You consider this High end? I consider the SS a mid end scope. </div></div>No, haha, I consider my Schmidt and Bender PMII 4-16 that only goes down to 50m to be high end. I just find it amusing that for 1/10 the cost that the SS10x42 does and my PMII doesn't. That being said, Schmidt and Bender probably didn't envision many sniping situations to be at closer than 50m, nor would it require a paralax adjustment to make a kill shot at that range.

The 10m focus would be a plus for me for my indoor dry fire practice however. That is why I find it to be an attractive option, and may end up going to a 5-25 for that reason.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

I am well aware that Optronika and Premier are connected but just found it funny that the Premier link was there up until a couple of days ago. Also aware of your sticking comments in against S&B any chance you get. Just looks like you took the Premier link out so that you can drop comments against S&B and not look like it's coming from the competition to people who don't know Premier and Optronika are in business together.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The 10m focus would be a plus for me for my indoor dry fire practice however. That is why I find it to be an attractive option, and may end up going to a 5-25 for that reason. </div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">"If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up"</span>

- Matthew Broderick as Ferris Bueller in "<span style="font-style: italic">Ferris Bueller's Day Off</span>", 1986.


The 10M focus also makes it much more convenient (and easy!) to use a plumb line. Since you can focus so much closer, you can drop a plumb line from the ceiling indoors without worry of environmental factors, i.e. wind, moving the plumb line around, and you can do it anytime, day or night.


Keith
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just looks like you took the Premier link out so that you can drop comments against S&B and not look like it's coming from the competition to people who don't know Premier and Optronika are in business together.</div></div>
Rob01,

come on, do you really think people need to be protected from the need to click a link to know who someone works for? We advertise Premier products on our website and it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out if someone is curious about my comments here.

After what happened to that "you know what I'm talking about"-thread a couple of days ago, I really think it is an impertinence to accuse <span style="font-style: italic">me</span> of having a hidden agenda here. My motives are obvious, and I challenge anyone to check any of my claims for himself. I wish this was true of more people here, and I wish there was a culture of discussing facts and technical aspects rather than just hooray-ing or bashing certain products based on general mood, gut feeling and advertisement dollars.

This thread is a prime example that the opposite is true, there is a technical claim about something that turns out to be quite the opposite when you look at it more closely. Nobody is interested in the facts because they don't want to hear that their pet brand is not all-perfect, and they think I am "bashing" the competition when I'm pointing out that there are false claims being made. Yes, maybe I mentioned this because this is an aspect that we happen to have improved significally with a lot of effort, and being a technical guy rather than sales&marketing oriented, I might have been too quick at pointing the finger at someone who tries to substitute technical achievements with marketing talk. I think it would bug everybody if someone made a similar claim in their field of work.

Do you assume that the audience here is so incompetent that they cannot form their own opinion on a product? Do you think that people are unable to accept that what they are planning to buy is not "the best" in every respect? When I started getting interested in shooting gear and optics, I also thought that I had to have "the best" and wanted to believe that what I chose was "the best" in every respect. So I know the feeling when you discover that you'll find that even "the best" may be sadly lacking in some respect, and I also remember how pissed I was that the gun rags wouldn't tell you about those sore points of high-end products. In their articles, everything was either great or it didn't get mentioned at all, and I'd hate to see Sniper's Hide developing into an online gun rag. If you continue to bash people for inconvenient but matter-of-fact statements, you will at some point find yourself without people who have any motivation to contribute anything here besides posting funny pictures and hooray-ing the hype brands of the season. I'm afraid this board has gone quite a way into that direction in the time of my membership.

By the way, I welcome anybody to look at my past posts and judge for themselves whether my contributions here seem to be driven mainly by the desire to clarify stuff that is getting mixed up or stabs at the competition. Most people here who have some serious competence also have some kind of agenda, simply because they are dealers, work for a manufacturer, shoot in a sponsored team or have to please advertising customers. The only straightforward way of handling this dilemma is sticking to the facts and not hiding your agenda.

Rant over.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 10m focus would be a plus for me for my indoor dry fire practice however. That is why I find it to be an attractive option, and may end up going to a 5-25 for that reason. </div></div>

I have been doing some dry fire practice at home with a S&B 5-25x56 and when dialed in to 5x power, I am getting very good focus on targets about 13 feet away.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

@ David S.

I read some of your previous posts and you do indeed clarify "mixep up" stuff.

But the same time you post your own opinion which is biased by your occupation, pointing to PR even if the thread was not about that brand (like some S&B threads, NF or Zeiss/Hensoldt). This is an agenda to me and I don't know if it is a common thing to jump on threads to advertise and/or "bash" other brands pointing to "your" merchandise.

Correcting mistakes is one thing, adding a sentence like "make a comparison with PR yourself" (no direct quote, since you know what you wrote and everyone can read).

Dealers/employees/fan boys have an agenda, they like to sell their products, but they should do that in a civil manner, I read several posts of you that were not quite professional.

I was in the market to swap my S&B 5-25x56 to a PR because of some advanced features, about to give that guy a call to make a direct comparison, but after I read the "you know what I'm talking about" thread I won't buy from that dealer, so I won't buy PR as he is the german dealer.

Some trusted folks told me to stay clear of PR and those were unbiased opinions with more knowledge about optics than myself.

I'll keep my S&B, I never use 5x for shooting anyway.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

After what happened to that "you know what I'm talking about"-thread a couple of days ago, I really think it is an impertinence to accuse <span style="font-style: italic">me</span> of having a hidden agenda here. </div></div>

That thread was deleted per Lowlight. It was serving no use other than letting the dealer Surgeon Predator is speaking of try to make an erroneous connection between some arms traffickers and S&B.

Sorry my observation upset you. Wasn't meant to. Just an observation. Again, sorry.

BM11 and W45, that is very true. When I dry fire inside I don't have alot of room and the ability to dial down to 5x and turn the parallax down to 10m makes dry firing more accommodating. I have a small target on my back door I use. It's actually a 1" square 4 color HazMat sticket I put a small dot in each color and use that. Works well and the small target helps make it more difficult.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

David was I wrong that you left out key details about the usmc contract? Also being a marine I'm completely clueless about what hardware is on our guns.
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SurgeonPredator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But the same time you post your own opinion which is biased by your occupation, ...</div></div>
Yes, of course I'm biased. Almost everyone here is biased, either because they are a dealer, sponsored team shooter, rely on advertisement money to run the site, because they only own one brand of gear and tell everybody it's "the best" or worse yet, they give advice based on the most common hearsay. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as the reader is aware of it so he can judge the information accordingly. That's why I was talking about <span style="font-weight: bold">hidden</span> agendas. Let's just say I'm contributing technical information here and getting the chance to talk about our scopes in return. If that's not OK for Frank, it only takes as much as a PM to make me stop.

I realize though that people are especially sensitive towards my comments here because I work for a certain manufacturer, and I'm going to try to adjust my contributions accordingly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...erroneous connection...</div></div>
With all due respect, I seriously doubt that anyone here has more information on that matter than the journalist who wrote the article (or the German federal police, for that matter) and can decide for the reader which information is "erroneous" and protect him from having to evaluate it for himself. While I agree that the guy was most probably more after taking a stab at a certain manufacturer or simply pissing off people on this board, it still doesn't change the facts, and I can't remember anyone else receiving this kind of protection from inconvenient information.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">David was I wrong that you left out key details about the usmc contract? Also being a marine I'm completely clueless about what hardware is on our guns.</div></div>
Come on, I "left out" <span style="font-weight: bold">all</span> details of "the contract" except for the fact that our scope got accepted. You still can't seem to imagine that the Corps is ordering a large number of scopes although they are of course <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> replacing all operable scopes. I don't even know who started that rumor in the first place, it is quite a strange conception that a government agency of any kind would just dump such a large number of functional equipment just because something improved has appeared on the market. Maybe it's because so many people who do this as a hobby like to get the leatest and greatest and can afford it, too, so they tend to replace their equipment as soon as something "better" hits the market. Good for them, but it doesn't seem to work like that for the military.

You know what I consider "leaving out key details"? Putting up a big ass poster of a scope at your booth at shot show, implying that you are the exclusive supplier to the USMC when that status has effectively ended about two years ago, and painstakingly painting over the "Premier Reticles"-writing on the pictured scope with a black sharpie. With stuff like that going on, you may find it easier to forgive me if I sometimes make a more snappy comment here than I probably should.


Regards,

David
 
Re: 5X25 Schmidt & Bender

I appreciate all of the on topic replies. I think I'm going to try to find someone that lives in my area that has one of these scopes, and check it out before I leap. I'm in West Central GA. Thanks, Shane