6.5 Creed, Reloder 26, and barrel life.

[Shankin McStaby]

Wasn’t sure where to post this.... but figured this wouldn’t be a bad spot...

So 6-9 months ago I picked up my first bolt gun (Howa bravo in 6.5cm w 26” bbl). Took it to the range with some Hornady American Gunner 140’s, and shot .5-.75 moa. I was happy with the groups and the rifle, but decided to reload for it to see what I could wring out of it.

At the time, h4350 was nowhere to be found in my area, so I looked around and decided I would try Reloder 26 with some 143 ELD-X’s. Average groups were sub half moa, with a best of sub .25 moa. Fast forward to now, roughly 1000 rounds later, and I’m seeing mostly .75 moa with a best of .5 moa.

My question: Has anyone here reloaded with RL26 and noticed significantly short(er) barrel life?

I have since switched to h4350 w/ the 143’s, and those groups don’t seem to be any better, although the SD and ES are better.

I may be a little freaked out about nothing, and if that’s the case let me know. I’d just like to put a plan together if something is wrong. I’m planning on having a gunsmith check out the barrel and let me know what he thinks, but I’d be interested to hear y’alls experiences with RL26.

The loads:

Hornady 143 eldx
Starline SP brass
Fed AR match primers
46.1gn RL26
2.840” COAL
2750 MV
15 SD
32 ES

Hornady 143 eldx
Starline brass
Fed AR match lrimer
39.5gn H4350
2.840” COAL
2632 MV
6 SD
21 ES

 

[clcustom1911]

Is it the same brand/ lot of primers you started with?

 

[Mxridr]

There are several variables: are you using same lot of bullets. Even my 140 elds can vary lot to lot. Are u chasing the lans. Throat might have some erosion. Also there’s much better brass and primers.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

All good points.

Yes, the bullets are of the same lot.

No I’m not chasing the lands. I’m seating to 2.840” because that seams to be the most consistent seating depth with RL26 in this rifle while also being able to feed from the mag. With the 143, I don’t hit the lands until I’m seated out to ~2.910”. Anything past 2.870” has a hard time feeding.

Brass: it is what it is. I’d like to be able to afford Lapua or Norma, but it’s pricey and hard to find around here.

Primers: I started out with CCI BR’s, but I noticed some slight cratering without coming anywhere near max, and figured the Fed AR primers might be a better way to go with their harder cups.

 

[Mxridr]

Sometimes hard to judge by primer cratering for pressure. My rem 700 craters everything because the firing pin needs to be bushed.

 

[Mxridr]

Also you might want to move your bullet.

 

[clcustom1911]

Primer change..... Makes a HUGE difference sometimes.

Same brass, same bullet, same charge, different primer:

Remington 9 1/2 on left column, Federal 210M right column

 

[Steel head]

1000 rounds is about where my last 260 barrel needed bumping up my powder charge to get back to original speed.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

Thanks for all the info y’all. I think I’ll mess with the primers, prolly switch back to the cci br’s. Also, I’m going to try some Berger 130 hybrids with h4350 and see what THAT load gets me. If I can’t get anything to tighten up, I’ll shoot the piss out of the gun to get trigger time out to 600 (longest range I have regular access too), while I’m saving up for a Bartlein and smith fees.

I poked around a little and tried to hunt down some Berger 130 hybrid data with h4350 on here, but I’m not finding a whole lot. Maybe I’m using the search bar wrong.... I dunno. Do any of you have a preferred load for the 130s and 4350?

Thanks again for all of y’alls help.

 

[clcustom1911]

Thanks for all the info y’all. I think I’ll mess with the primers, prolly switch back to the cci br’s. Also, I’m going to try some Berger 130 hybrids with h4350 and see what THAT load gets me. If I can’t get anything to tighten up, I’ll shoot the piss out of the gun to get trigger time out to 600 (longest range I have regular access too), while I’m saving up for a Bartlein and smith fees.

I poked around a little and tried to hunt down some Berger 130 hybrid data with h4350 on here, but I’m not finding a whole lot. Maybe I’m using the search bar wrong.... I dunno. Do any of you have a preferred load for the 130s and 4350?

Thanks again for all of y’alls help.

Depending on velocity you go between 39.6 and 42 in .2 grain increments. You'll very likely find 2-3 loads your rifle likes.

 

[clcustom1911]

Some guys go up to 44g of 4350 to get up to 2850-2950 out of a 24" barrel.

 

[Juggerxxx]

Make sure everything is back to being consistent. Meaning; same primers, neck tension, velocity and distance to the lands. If you haven’t changed your seating depth over the 1000 rounds than I would have to imagine the lands are father away now. I would perform a simple seating delpth test To see if the groups get smaller. You might need do a OCW as well if you don’t know what your velocity was before and now. I have a hard time believing your barrel is shot out after 1000 rounds using RL26. Keep in mind it’s a slower burning powder than H4350.

I have over 1100 rounds down my barrel and it still consistently shoots less than 0.500” 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Most of those reloads were 42.2gr H4350 and 140ELDs. 300 of those loads were 47.7gr RL26 and 147ELD running over 2900 FPS.

Please report back if you do explore a solution even if you don’t have good results.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

I certainly will. I have the 130’s loaded already. I’ll swing by the LGS tomorrow and snatch up some CCI BR’s, and load up the 143’s and see what happens.

 

[abn31c]

Thanks for all the info y’all. I think I’ll mess with the primers, prolly switch back to the cci br’s. Also, I’m going to try some Berger 130 hybrids with h4350 and see what THAT load gets me. If I can’t get anything to tighten up, I’ll shoot the piss out of the gun to get trigger time out to 600 (longest range I have regular access too), while I’m saving up for a Bartlein and smith fees.

I poked around a little and tried to hunt down some Berger 130 hybrid data with h4350 on here, but I’m not finding a whole lot. Maybe I’m using the search bar wrong.... I dunno. Do any of you have a preferred load for the 130s and 4350?

Thanks again for all of y’alls help.

I get 2885 fps from 42.1 h4350 in lapua brass in a mpa 24 incher. Same load makes 2940 in my 26 inch Krieger.

 

[wpgk58]

Wasn’t sure where to post this.... but figured this wouldn’t be a bad spot...

So 6-9 months ago I picked up my first bolt gun (Howa bravo in 6.5cm w 26” bbl). Took it to the range with some Hornady American Gunner 140’s, and shot .5-.75 moa. I was happy with the groups and the rifle, but decided to reload for it to see what I could wring out of it.

At the time, h4350 was nowhere to be found in my area, so I looked around and decided I would try Reloder 26 with some 143 ELD-X’s. Average groups were sub half moa, with a best of sub .25 moa. Fast forward to now, roughly 1000 rounds later, and I’m seeing mostly .75 moa with a best of .5 moa.

My question: Has anyone here reloaded with RL26 and noticed significantly short(er) barrel life?

I have since switched to h4350 w/ the 143’s, and those groups don’t seem to be any better, although the SD and ES are better.

I may be a little freaked out about nothing, and if that’s the case let me know. I’d just like to put a plan together if something is wrong. I’m planning on having a gunsmith check out the barrel and let me know what he thinks, but I’d be interested to hear y’alls experiences with RL26.

The loads:

Hornady 143 eldx
Starline SP brass
Fed AR match primers
46.1gn RL26
2.840” COAL
2750 MV
15 SD
32 ES

Hornady 143 eldx
Starline brass
Fed AR match lrimer
39.5gn H4350
2.840” COAL
2632 MV
6 SD
21 ES

Your Low Speed Node is ok.
Your upper node is quite slow, and is probably the reason for your increasing groups. The SD is way up there.
Try pushing your load up in .3 or .5 increments until you see pressure signs. Look for a node in the 2800 fps range. This is a pretty well know node and will push your SD's down and tighten up your groups. Once you have found that good node then you can refine your precision by adjusting the jump. But my guess is that finding the node will do 90% of the correction.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

Sounds good. Like I said, I’m switching back to the CCI BR’s as well.

I’ll load up 30rds, 5 ea. of 46.1, 46.4, 46.7, 47.0, and 47.3 of RL26. Shoot, stop at signs of pressure, and see what the deal is.

I will likely take one round from each group and run them over the speedometer (magneto), so the groups will likely be 4 rounders, but I hope to have this thing figured out ASAP.

I just need to find time to load the RL26 rounds, and get to the range. Been swamped with work this week. I will most definitely keep you all updated as to what happens though. Thanks again for all of the input.

 

[Vect0rstar]

Where are you finding RL 26? I can find H4350 around me and online, but I haven’t been able to find any RL 26.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

LGS here in Houston called BKB 10 Ring. They usually have RL26.... but when they do, they prolly don’t have H4350. If they have H4350, they prolly don’t have RL26. ?‍

 

[wpgk58]

Sounds good. Like I said, I’m switching back to the CCI BR’s as well.

I’ll load up 30rds, 5 ea. of 46.1, 46.4, 46.7, 47.0, and 47.3 of RL26. Shoot, stop at signs of pressure, and see what the deal is.

I will likely take one round from each group and run them over the speedometer (magneto), so the groups will likely be 4 rounders, but I hope to have this thing figured out ASAP.

I just need to find time to load the RL26 rounds, and get to the range. Been swamped with work this week. I will most definitely keep you all updated as to what happens though. Thanks again for all of the input.

When I am doing load dev, I usually run everything over the Magnetospeed and look for the nodes as well as the pressure signs.
After I find the node then I load to verify node.
Then to refine accuracy I adjust jump to improve precision.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

So I went to the range today with the 130 Berger Hybrid/H4350 loads to see what the deal was with those. I still plan on loading up the 143 ELDX/RL26 loads and retesting those.... but I may not need to.

The results:

Called fliers will be pointed out. I will include group sizes with and without fliers.

41.5 and 41.8 were fired into the same target, because I’m a dumb ass, so they are both in 1 x 10 shot group.

130 Berger Hybrid OTM
H4350
Starline brass
Fed AR-M primers
2.820” COAL

Powder weight / velocity / group size

40.6 / 2659 / .683”
40.9 / 2713 / .436”
41.2 / 2722 / .659”
41.5 / 2751 / .779” (.568” w/o flier)
41.8 / 2755 / .779” (.568” w/o flier)
42.1 / 2768 / .585”
42.4 / 2792 / .806” (.296” w/o flier)
42.7 / 2795 / .948” (.353” w/o flier)
43.0 / 2853 / .704” (.551” w/o flier)

I know, I know, those are a lot of fliers. There’s some stuff that I need to tighten up on my end, and I def. need to stop shooting next to doods with brakes when I’m shooting for groups.

Excuses aside, what are y’alls thoughts?

Should hit the range later this week or next week with the RL26, and will post results then.

 

[abn31c]

So I went to the range today with the 130 Berger Hybrid/H4350 loads to see what the deal was with those. I still plan on loading up the 143 ELDX/RL26 loads and retesting those.... but I may not need to.

The results:

Called fliers will be pointed out. I will include group sizes with and without fliers.

41.5 and 41.8 were fired into the same target, because I’m a dumb ass, so they are both in 1 x 10 shot group.

130 Berger Hybrid OTM
H4350
Starline brass
Fed AR-M primers
2.820” COAL

Powder weight / velocity / group size

40.6 / 2659 / .683”
40.9 / 2713 / .436”
41.2 / 2722 / .659”
41.5 / 2751 / .779” (.568” w/o flier)
41.8 / 2755 / .779” (.568” w/o flier)
42.1 / 2768 / .585”
42.4 / 2792 / .806” (.296” w/o flier)
42.7 / 2795 / .948” (.353” w/o flier)
43.0 / 2853 / .704” (.551” w/o flier)

I know, I know, those are a lot of fliers. There’s some stuff that I need to tighten up on my end, and I def. need to stop shooting next to doods with brakes when I’m shooting for groups.

Excuses aside, what are y’alls thoughts?

Should hit the range later this week or next week with the RL26, and will post results then.

What temp was it and did you see any pressure signs? Id prolly load 42.5 and play with seating depth.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

What temp was it and did you see any pressure signs? Id prolly load 42.5 and play with seating depth.

59 degrees
No pressure signs at all on any of the loads.

I was thinking of loading 10 each from 42.4-42.7. Shoot 5 each for groups, and 5 each for speedo data.

Your take on it may be better though. Less time chasing the dragon, more time shooting something you know will work.

Would you bother messing with anything over 43, or stay in the 42.5 range being that the speed is near 2800 with good accuracy?

 

[abn31c]

If it was me, I would load some up at 20 thou off and shoot a couple groups at 300 yds. If they group, then i would chrono them. Velocity is the last thing I worry about.

 

[Shankin McStaby]

.020” off prolly isn’t gonna happen in this rifle. I’ll check cartridge length to the lands, but with the ELDX loaded as long as the mag would allow, I was still looking at .040” off.

 

[abn31c]

Damn, then I would shoot what you can at 300 for group. The hybrids can take some jump as well. Im a Hornady fan but the 130 berger is a fantastic projo.

 

[wpgk58]

59 degrees
No pressure signs at all on any of the loads.

I was thinking of loading 10 each from 42.4-42.7. Shoot 5 each for groups, and 5 each for speedo data.

Your take on it may be better though. Less time chasing the dragon, more time shooting something you know will work.

Would you bother messing with anything over 43, or stay in the 42.5 range being that the speed is near 2800 with good accuracy?

I would not about above your 2800 FPS node. That is a typical node and looks like you are right there. My next step would be to clarify and refine the node, which is what you are doing. Then refine the precision with adjusting jump.
Happy Loading