6.5 Creedmoor load development **update 3-22-18**

[Ricker]

Bored today? Nothing beats looking at internet pictures!

Rookie re-loader and sub amateur PRS shooter so don't expect too much. Looking for input and ideas of where you might go next. All were 100 yards / 3 round groups except for the one with the note of extra 4th round loaded (by mistake). I plan to explore the 43.5 to 44.1+ charge weights and see if the groups will duplicate with 5 or so rounds at smaller charge intervals.

6.5 CM 26" barrel
once fired Prime brass
H4350
CCI 200
Berger 130gr VLD
.005 OTL
Brass prep was full length shoulder bump 2 thou. with type S neck bushing and mandrel

 

[rduckwor]

Any pressure signs at the upper load ranges?

If not, I like the 43.8 load as it falls pretty much in the middle of what I would call a node. I would want to be certain I'm not pushing too hard though. Good Luck,

RMD

 

[TheGerman]

I'd explore 42.8 as well as 43.0-43.1 and mess with seating depth.

If you look at the 6.5CM reloading depot thread, basically 90% of the loads are H4350 between 42.5 and 42.9 with the most repeated being 42.7.

 

[Ricker]

There were no pressure signs. Primers on the highest charges looked the same as the lowest charges. No extractor marks or pressure rings at the webbing.
Thanks,

 

[shoot4fun]

My 6.5 Creedmoor has always been happy shooting the 130VLD well off the lands and ahead of 44 grains H4350 in Hornady brass.
I see no pressure there but you should be prudent and work up.

 

[shoot4fun]

Also, when I work up loads I try to stay away from those that display much vertical dispersion.
But yours may be cured by experimenting with seating depth.

 

[sig2009]

At 2900fps you are really looking at premature barrel replacement. You are better off in the 2700fps range.

 

[Ricker]

At 2900fps you are really looking at premature barrel replacement. You are better off in the 2700fps range.

I suppose it depends what you would call premature? I'm playing in the PRS game which means replacing barrels.

For reference the gun really likes PRIME 130s at 2925 fps.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It will be a week or two before I can do another round of load development.

 

[padom]

2900 with a 130gr bullet in a 26" 6.5cm bolt gun is pretty standard...your good to go

 

[Ricker]

I was able to get out again last weekend for a bit more load development. I dropped down to 0.2 grain spread and also shot 5 round groups this time. Again no pressure signs.

I wasn't sure where to go the best groups being a pretty high charge so I discussed the results with my rifle builder. He has recommended a few changes for the next round.

 

[Blanman]

43.8 and play with seating depth

 

[DrainTheSwamp2017]

What chrono?
43.8 looks like the middle of a velocity flat spot.
Sd/es creeped up on the first target thou. That’s where I’d explore from my limited experience

 

[Ricker]

What chrono?
43.8 looks like the middle of a velocity flat spot.
Sd/es creeped up on the first target thou. That’s where I’d explore from my limited experience

Magnetospeed attached to the chassis.

 

[DrainTheSwamp2017]

Ya somewhere between 43.6-44 is gonna be spot on.

Might have to fiddle with seating depth or just pick a compromise load between small group/small es and sd check it when it’s cold and when it’s hot (outside air temp) might have to adjust it by a tenth if you wanna get picky.

If these are safe in your rifle

 

[Changed]

Care to share a picture of your primers/case head at those pressures?

 

[Patty]

Like others have said, i would load 43.8 and mess with seating depth a little.

 

[Patty]

At 2900fps you are really looking at premature barrel replacement. You are better off in the 2700fps range.

This is not true, its not just about speed. Prime factory ammo produces this speed and beyond in a 26" barrel easy. 130's at 2700 would be considered very slow.

 

[Ricker]

Care to share a picture of your primers/case head at those pressures?

With the green box lid on top the powder charge increases left to right.

 

[Darkside-Six]

yes, 43.8 looks like it could be good if you play with seating depth. based on your original pic i'd also look at 42.3-42.6. There is only 5fps between the two and they both chroned great. Definitely a flat spot there.

 

[SupressYourself]

What Darkside said.
On the first set of targets, 42.3-42.6 is a definite node, with excellent SD and ES on both sides of it.
On the second set, looks like your upper node is between 43.7 and 43.9.
I can't blame you for chasing the higher node, but the lower one looks like it could be a bit more forgiving.

From here that brass looks pretty damn good, but I've noticed that you sometimes have to hold it at just the right angle to see the slightest extractor marks. Even so, that would be just the very slightest pressure sign and not worth worrying about.

 

[Ricker]

Thanks everyone for the review and comments.

 

[Ricker]

I got out again for another round of load development. A few people suggested that I pursue the 43.8 charge weight but I'm not sure why because the group sizes weren't the smallest? My guess is the recommendation is because there is a velocity flat spot between 43.7 - 43.9 in addition to lower SD / ES?

Well here is the info from yesterday. I'm not sure yet but I'll probably load up with the 43.8 charge and test at at 300 yards to see what kind of groups I get.

 

[Ricker]

I forgot to mention the main change on the last outing was all rounds were seated to be barely touch the lands.

 

[SupressYourself]

As I understand it, when you're doing this, you're not looking for the smallest groups. You're looking for a "node", which is typically described as a velocity flat spot between charges. The idea is that will be the most forgiving load. Then you try to tighten up groups by adjusting seating depth.
It seems like 43.8 is the middle of your upper node. I would forget the rest and load some 43.8 at varying seating depths. Your velocity will likely decrease as you back away from the lands (and increase as you 'jam'), but if you can find a depth that is consistently low ES and it shoots well, you got a winner.

Also, for future reference, "barely touch the lands" is typically not consistently achievable due to bullet variations. I would just pick a reasonable 'jump' and use that until you settle in on your node.

 

[rduckwor]

Suppress is correct, you're looking for a series of charges that exhibit nearly the same vertical dispersion and roughly the same velocity.

The goal being a charge weight that will shoot to the same POI even if your charge weight is slightly off or there are significant variances in other load factors.

RMD

 

[Ricker]

Update for my 6.5 CM rookie load development.

I was able to get out last weekend and shoot a few verification rounds at 300 yards. I loaded 20 rounds with 43.8 grains of H4350 with the first set of ten touching the lands and the second set of ten set 5 thousandths into the lands. The groups were five on each target. No pressure signs in either set. The slight jam set had better grouping and will be my go to load for now. Unfortunately I'll be chasing throat wear. Once it changes to just touching I'll increase back to 5 thousandths in.

SD and ES weren't all that great. I hope they improve as my reloading skills improve. First 10 were SD 13 and ES 42. Second group of 10 were SD 11 and ES 35.

Thanks for the advice and comments,

 

[fxdrider]

Update for my 6.5 CM rookie load development.

I was able to get out last weekend and shoot a few verification rounds at 300 yards. I loaded 20 rounds with 43.8 grains of H4350 with the first set of ten touching the lands and the second set of ten set 5 thousandths into the lands. The groups were five on each target. No pressure signs in either set. The slight jam set had better grouping and will be my go to load for now. Unfortunately I'll be chasing throat wear. Once it changes to just touching I'll increase back to 5 thousandths in.

SD and ES weren't all that great. I hope they improve as my reloading skills improve. First 10 were SD 13 and ES 42. Second group of 10 were SD 11 and ES 35.

Thanks for the advice and comments,

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Ricker,
If you don't mind me asking, did you use software or an app to do the measurements for your groups? If so, what is it? I've been using OnTarget, and it works well, but I like how your group notes have a yellow background. I don't think I can do that with OnTarget.

Thanks.

 

[Ricker]

It is SubMOA on iPad. Real easy to use once you figure out what the buttons are.

Ricker,
If you don't mind me asking, did you use software or an app to do the measurements for your groups? If so, what is it? I've been using OnTarget, and it works well, but I like how your group notes have a yellow background. I don't think I can do that with OnTarget.

Thanks.

 

[supercorndogs]

My 6.5 Creedmoor has always been happy shooting the 130VLD well off the lands and ahead of 44 grains H4350 in Hornady brass.
I see no pressure there but you should be prudent and work up.

Looking at your target I would say this right here. About 44g looks to be in the node. Looks like 43.8-44.1 have a pretty stable POI. I would load 44g and test seating depth. I would back .02 .03 and .04 off and test them. I don't like being jammed.

 

[fxdrider]

It is SubMOA on iPad. Real easy to use once you figure out what the buttons are.

Nice! Thanks.

 

[1jonathan1994]

How far off the lands?

 

[shornik]

Also, when I work up loads I try to stay away from those that display much vertical dispersion.
But yours may be cured by experimenting with seating depth.

I agree, but if this test was done at 100 yd. that vertical isn't due to velocity. That is more than likely an issue of not firing during the same respiratory pause, or another aspect of the fundamentals possibly.

 

[stradibarrius]

I got out again for another round of load development. A few people suggested that I pursue the 43.8 charge weight but I'm not sure why because the group sizes weren't the smallest? My guess is the recommendation is because there is a velocity flat spot between 43.7 - 43.9 in addition to lower SD / ES?

Well here is the info from yesterday. I'm not sure yet but I'll probably load up with the 43.8 charge and test at at 300 yards to see what kind of groups I get.

View attachment 6878086

From someone trying to learn....why would you choose 43.8 over 43.4? The group looks better with 43.4 over 43.8.