6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

Tactical30

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 5, 2009
1,098
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Eastern Ohio
<span style="font-weight: bold">Powder</span>: Varget
<span style="font-weight: bold">Powder Wieght</span>: 28.0gr.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Case</span>: Lapua
<span style="font-weight: bold">Bullet Type</span>: Lapua Scenar HPBT
<span style="font-weight: bold">Bullet Wieght</span>: 123gr.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Primer</span>: CCI-450
<span style="font-weight: bold">OAL</span>: 2.245"
 
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Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

For info on Grendel loads check out this website: http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_reloading.htm .

Some data from the site follows:

123 Scenar Lapua 2.265 CCI BR2 Viht N140 26.5 2310 27.7 2430
Viht N540 28.0 2360 28.4 2470
Hodgdon H4895 27.0 2423 27.5 2450
Hodgdon Varget 28.0 2358 28.1 2400
Win 748 30.0 2475 30.2 2590
Hodgdon BL-(C)2 31.5 2570 31.6 2545
Accurate 2520 30.5 2630
Lot X6370 30.6 2620
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

I have once fired Lapua brass that I loaded with a redding full size dies and after shooting them once the ID when ran thru the dies is still to big to hold the bullet correctly. My dies work fine for new brass but once it is fired the dies will not resize the neck. any ideas?
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

AA Hunter model with 19.5" barrel, free floated. 123gr Scenar w/30.5gr W748, oal 2.275, fed match primers 2510 fps.
Nosler 120gr BT 31.4gr BLC-2, oal 2.26 cci 450, 2480fps, my most accurate load @ 5 shots 3/4 moa or better.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

I recently reloaded:

Lapua Brass
120gr. Nosler BT
31.5gr. BL-C(2)
OAL - 2.250"
CCI# 450 Primer

Will be loading up a ton of these rounds!

Shoots sub-moa. Best load to date. Shooting 18" Sabre Defense bbl
with 1-7.5 twist. I dont know why they just didnt make those bbls in 1-8 instead of 1-7.5
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

Just saw this Grendel topic.
My favorite starting load for all my Grendel's has been:
AA brass
CCI 450 small rifle mag primer
Nosler 120gr BT
30gr. BLC-2 powder
OAL. 2.26" make sure they fit in your magazine properly
This is a light load, so makes a great place to start. It has
shot groups in the .3-.4" range, depending on the barrel.
That 31.4 to 31.5 load has shot well for me but not as accurate
as the 30gr. load. I have loaded Wolf brass with the 30gr. load
and had that shoot very well also.
The Nosler 120gr. BT has been my favorite bullet. It shoots as well as the match bullets. Another bullet worth trying is the
Sierra 120gr Match King, this is not considered one of their top
bullets but it has shot very well in a number of different barrels.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

A great place to pickup reloading or hunting info for the Grendel
is over at www.65grendel.com
A lot of posts on different bullets and loads and a hunting section with a lot of good pic's.
I do not hunt,so no help there. I have had my best luck
with the Nosler 120gr BT's and 120 SMK's. I like BLC-2 powder,
probably because I have a lot of it,lol. TAC seems to be doing
very well for many guys so I am going to get some of that and try
this summer.
Check out the Grendel site, for a lot of really good info.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

Just tried a new load out and it worked great.

18" Sabre D. bbl/ 1-7.5 Twist Rate.
5-shot group / Tested @ 100yrds.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Measured .4"</span>
I cant wait to try the TAC and AA2520 with this bullet!

<span style="font-weight: bold">123gr. Lapua Scenar
29.0gr. Win 748
Lapua Brass
CCi #450 Primer
2.260 OAL</span>
0402100123-00.jpg
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

<span style="text-decoration: underline">This load also worked well:</span>
3 of the bullets pretty much went in the same hole.
Also tested @ 100yrds.


0402100122-00.jpg
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Here are some loads I found from some other 6.5 Grendel shooters online:</span></span>



USE AT YOUR OWN RISK WARNING - WARNING - WARNING USE AT YOUR OWN RISK WARNING - WARNING


6.5 GRENDEL


Lapua Sierra 85 gr. HP BL-C(2) 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Sierra 85 gr. HP H-335 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Sierra 85 gr. HP H-335 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Sierra 85 gr. HP H-335 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Sierra 85 gr. HP VV N-530 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.200"

AA Speer 90 gr. TNT H-335 31.4 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
AA Speer 90 gr. TNT H-335 31.6 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Speer 90 gr. TNT Benchmark 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.200"

Lapua Hornady 95 gr. V-MAX TAC 30.8 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
AA Hornady 95 gr. V-MAX H-335 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.160"
AA Hornady 95 gr. V-MAX Benchmark 30.0 gr. CCI #400 2.200"
Lapua Hornady 95 gr. V-MAX Xterminator 30.4 gr. CCI #450 2.200"
Lapua Hornady 95 gr. V-MAX Xterminator 30.6 gr. CCI #450 2.200"

AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 29.6 gr. CCI #450 -------
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 30.0 gr. CCI #450 ---------
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip H-335 29.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip H-335 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip H-335 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip Xterminator 29.3 gr. CCI #450 ---------
Lapua Nosler 100gr. Ballistic Tip AA 2520 31.0 gr. CCI #450 ---------
AA Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip Benchmark 29.1 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 29.7gr. CCI #450 ---------
Lapua Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 30.0 gr. CCI #450 --------
Lapua Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 30.5 gr. CCI 3450 --------

Lapua Lapua 100 gr. Scenar AA 2460 30.2 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
Lapua Lapua 100 gr. Scenar IMR 8208 XBR 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 100 gr. Scenar VV N-130 25.2 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 100 gr. Scenar VV N-530 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"

Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing H-335 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
AA Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing H-335 28.9 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing BL-C(2) 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing BL-C(2) 32.0 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing VV N-133 26.1 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
AA Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing VV N-530 25.8 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
AA Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing VV N-530 26.1 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.260"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing Benchmark 26.5 gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing Benchmark 27.0gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing Benchmark 28.0 gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing Benchmark 28.5 gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing Benchmark 29.0 gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
AA Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing H-322 26.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Sierra 107 gr. MatchKing TAC 29.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"

Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar TAC 29.7gr. Cci #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar VV N-530 26.1 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar Benchmark 27.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar Benchmark 27.7 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar Benchmark 28.7 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar Benchmark 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar H-335 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar BL-C(2) 30.8 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar BL-C(2) 32.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 108 gr. Scenar VV N-133 27.5 gr. CCI #450 2.265"

AA Barnes 110 gr. Banded Solid TAC 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"

AA Barnes 100 gr. TTSX H-335 29.5 gr. CCI #450
AA Barnes 100 gr. TTSX H-335 30.0 gr. CCI #450
AA Barnes 100 gr. TTSX Xterminator 30.7 gr. CCI #450

Lapua Barnes 120 gr. TTSX Win 748 28.0 gr. CCI #450 ---------
Lapua Barnes 120 gr. TTSX Win 748 29.0 gr. CCI #450 ---------
Lapua Barnes 120 gr. TTSX Win 748 30.0 gr. CCI #450 ----------
AA Barnes 120 gr. TTSX AA 2520 30.4 gr. CCI #450 ---------
AA Barnes 120 gr. TTSX BL-C(2) 31.0 gr. CCI #450 ---------
AA Barnes 120 gr. TTSX BL-C(2) 31.5 gr. CCI #450 ---------

Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 31.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip BL-C(2) 31.7 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip RL-15 28.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip RL-15 29.0 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Benchmark 24.9 gr. CCI #400 -------
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip AA 2520 29.5gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip AA 2520 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip AA 2520 31.0 gr. Fed. 205M 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 27.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
AA Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 28.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
AA Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip TAC 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip H-335 27.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip H-335 28.5 gr. CCI #450 2.230"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip VV N-530 25.7 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip VV N-135 26.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 31.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 31.5 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Win 748 31.7 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
AA Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip H-4895 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Varget 28.2 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Varget 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.260"
Lapua Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip Varget 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.260"

AA Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing H-322 26.5 gr. WSR 2.250"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing Win 748 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing Win 748 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
AA Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing Varget 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 28.3 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 29.3 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Hornady Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 30.8 gr. CCI BR4 2.220"
AA Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing BL-C(2) 31.5 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
AA Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing TAC 28.5 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing VV N-530 25.7 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing VV N-135 26.0 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing H-335 27.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
AA Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing H-335 27.8 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
Lapua Sierra 120 gr. MatchKing H-4895 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.220"

AA Sierra 120 gr. Pro-Hunter SP TAC 28.0 gr. CCI #450 2.235"
AA Sierra 120 gr. Pro-Hunter SP TAC 29.0 gr. CCI #450 2.235"

Lapua Sierra 123 gr. MatchKing BL-C(2) 31.5 gr. CCI #450 -------
AA Sierra 123 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 29.9 gr. CCI #450 2.220"
AA Sierra 123 gr. MatchKing AA 2520 30.3 gr. CCI #450 2.220"

Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar VV N-530 25.7 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar BL-C(2) 31.5 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar VV N-140 27.2 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Win 748 28.5 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Win 748 29.0 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Win 748 29.5 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Win 748 30.3 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Benchmark 26.5 gr. CCI 400 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar Varget 28.0 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar RL-15 29.5 gr. Fed. 205M 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar H-4895 27.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar VV N-135 26.0 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar TAC 27.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar TAC 28.1 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar TAC 28.6 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar AA 2520 29.0 gr. Cci #450 2.260"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar AA 2520 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.265"
Lapua Lapua 123 gr. Scenar AA 2520 30.6 gr. CCI #450 2.265"

Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX AA 2520 28.0 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX AA 2520 28.5 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX AA 2520 29.0 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX AA 2520 29.5 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123gr. A-MAX AA 2520 30.0gr. CCI #450 --------
Lapua Hornady 123gr. A-MAX AA 2520 30.6 gr. CCI #450 -------
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX TAC 27.2gr. Wolf 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX TAC 27.9gr. Wolf 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX TAC 28.3 gr. Wolf 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX Win 748 29.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX Win 748 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 123 gr. A-MAX Win 748 30.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"

Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST BL-C(2) 29.3 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST BL-C(2) 29.5 gr. CCI #450 --------
AA Hornady 129 gr. SST BL-C(2) 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST IMR 4895 27.2 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
AA Hornady 129 gr. SST TAC 26.5 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Hornady 129 gr. SST TAC 27.6 gr. CCI #450 2.250"
AA Hornady 129 gr. SST H-335 27.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST Win 748 30.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST Varget 26.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST AA 2520 28.5 gr. CCI #450 -------
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST AA 2230 23.8 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST AA 2230 24.5 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST AA 2230 25.0 gr. CCI #450 2.255"
Lapua Hornady 129 gr. SST AA 2230 25.8 gr. CCI #450 2.255"

Lapua Berger 120 gr. Match TAC 28.2 gr. CCI #450 ------
Lapua Berger 120 gr. Match TAC 28.8 gr. CCI #450 2.260"

Lapua Hornady 120gr. A-MAX RL-15 27.4 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.165"

Lapua Norma 130 gr. Target JHPBT VV N-140 26.5 gr. Rem. 7.5 2.260"

 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just tried a new load out and it worked great.

18" Sabre D. bbl/ 1-7.5 Twist Rate.
5-shot group / Tested @ 100yrds.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Measured .4"</span>
I cant wait to try the TAC and AA2520 with this bullet!

<span style="font-weight: bold">123gr. Lapua Scenar
29.0gr. Win 748
Lapua Brass
CCi #450 Primer
2.260 OAL</span>
</div></div>

A lot of you are quoting a COL this high; are you shooting in an AR-15? I made my first Grendel reloads, and used the exact COL specified at the AA site for 123gr Lapua Scenars, which is 2.265. At that length, the bolt would not even close all the way. (Not only that, they would BARELY fit in a standard USGI AR-15 magazine.)

I measured about 10 factory loaded rounds (by AA), with 123gr bullets, and they were from 2.241 to 2.249, with an average of 2.246. Those work great in my rifle. However, I can't find any official published load data for those Lapua bullets and a shorter COL like that.

For those you actually shooting an AR-15 platform, what COL do you use for the Grendel? Do you have problems with the longer bullets? I am assuming it's not too safe to just seat my loads deeper by .015 with the same powder charge.

Thanks!
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AmmoHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just tried a new load out and it worked great.

18" Sabre D. bbl/ 1-7.5 Twist Rate.
5-shot group / Tested @ 100yrds.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Measured .4"</span>
I cant wait to try the TAC and AA2520 with this bullet!

<span style="font-weight: bold">123gr. Lapua Scenar
29.0gr. Win 748
Lapua Brass
CCi #450 Primer
2.260 OAL</span>
</div></div>

A lot of you are quoting a COL this high; are you shooting in an AR-15? I made my first Grendel reloads, and used the exact COL specified at the AA site for 123gr Lapua Scenars, which is 2.265. At that length, the bolt would not even close all the way. (Not only that, they would BARELY fit in a standard USGI AR-15 magazine.)

I measured about 10 factory loaded rounds (by AA), with 123gr bullets, and they were from 2.241 to 2.249, with an average of 2.246. Those work great in my rifle. However, I can't find any official published load data for those Lapua bullets and a shorter COL like that.

For those you actually shooting an AR-15 platform, what COL do you use for the Grendel? Do you have problems with the longer bullets? I am assuming it's not too safe to just seat my loads deeper by .015 with the same powder charge.

Thanks! </div></div>


I follow all of Alexander Arms load data.

Yes, I shoot from a AR-platform and do not have any problems with mags when I seat out to 2.260". Thats what I seat 90% of ALL my bullets out to. Also 2.265" will even fit in my mags and run fine.

I dont have any problems with the longer bullets either.

I dont understand why you are having that problem. It sounds like there is something wrong somewhere.

I am using specific AA or C-products 6.5 grendel magazines NOT USGI AR-15 (.223) Magazines. The 2 types of mags are different.
 
Re: 6.5 Grendel loads (AR-setups)

I would love it if Magpul came out with a P-Mag for the Grendel!

I heard recently that there is a new manufacturer getting ready to announce that they are releasing a NEW grendel Magazine to to the public. Coming soon!
I cant wait to hear who it is! I hope its Magpul but I highly dought it but you never know!
 
Im using wolf brass, rem 9 1/2 primers, blc 2 powder. I tried loading 30 grains of blc2 and blew out a primer. I backed off to 27.5 grains blc 2 with 123 smk at 2.26 coal. The first three shot grouped .3 of an inch. The 5 shot group was .75 of an inch. It was 90°F. I plan on loading with more powder and ill post results when I do. 20" 6.5 SAOD LW 50 barrel on Adams Arms piston upper
 
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