6.5 Grendel more or less dead?

[Lonehill]

Several years back I got really interested in the 6.5 Grendel. It intrigued me. Always looking for something harder hitting. Already had an AR so why not build an upper right? So, after browsing the 6.5 Grendel forum awhile I built one, a nice one. Shoots great, shot a couple bucks, filled a freezer with doe meat, had a little fun shooting some steel, etc. Now it's been sitting in the safe and I just prefer a bolt gun for hunting. I go to sell it and can't get rid of it. I go look on the Grendel forum where I hadn't looked in a long time and it seems everyone is dumping them left and right. Did it lose some favor with the intro of the 6.5 CM? Market does seem flooded with the cheaper builds. So what happened? You can almost hear the crickets chirping over there.

 

[308pirate]

300 Blackout, which sucks for everything except being suppressed but is supposedly used by the .mil cool kids, came along

 

[Srikaleak]

I'm actually building a Grendel SBR right now. It's gonna be my main hunting rig.
I think Grendel got crowded out by both 300 blackout and .224 valk.

 

[stwcattle]

Agree a lot of people seem to be jumping to the 224V.
I have 2 JP Grendel's and I'm sticking with them.

 

[Shadow_Warrior]

6.5 G is a great round and very capable out to 1000+
I have been using the Grendel for hog hunting and it seems to do much better than 5.56 and .300 BO for me.

 

[Shadow knows]

Sold my 300 bo and built a proof 6.5G and coulnt be happier. That led to 2 other guys getting 6.5G.
I have a 6.5cm in bolt and AR10, the 10 is heavy and I shoot it from time to time but it mostly sits. The Grendel always goes to the range with me when I tune in another rifle and I just shoot it for fun because it’s hands down my favorite semi auto rifle.
It never took off over here so I don’t see it dying. Then again I don’t see any 224v yet. 300bo show up from time to time.

 

[XLR308]

I think it's still a great round just a niche type of thing, when I considered building one it was between the Grendal and 68spc. My only interest was in having a short fast handling rifle for brush hunting hogs and whitetail and went with the 68spc instead.
There were far more factory loadings for the 68 even though I mainly reload and expected shot distance would rarely be beyond 250 yards for the area I hunted. When I hunted areas that had typical shot opportunities beyond that I would have opted for one of my bolt rifles in a caliber with better ballistics and energy than either of those anyway.

I think I would be far more interested in the Grendal case necked down to 6mm if I were to build an AR with that bolt face diameter anyway, better ballistics and flatter shooting with plenty of energy to putting down deer and hogs.

 

[1500varmint]

I've been on the fence about an AR build and up until recently my caliber of choice was going to be Grendel.

Seems like a lot of the hype for the caliber has diminished, and with the announcement that the Army will be moving to 6.8 I think I may switch.

I reload, but I availability of surplus ammo for plinking and harvesting brass is a consideration, so if Grendel is on the way out I'm not sure I want to jump in.

 

[Magnetic]

For targets only, the 224V has an edge. For hunting only, the 6.8 SPC has an edge. But I think you would be hard pressed to find a round that does more things well than the Grendel. It may not be the best for all tasks, but my 18" barrel Grendel works really well for whitetails out to 350-400 yards, night-time hog hunts with the thermal scope, and light-recoil ringing of 1000 yard targets. A max loaded 123 ELD in the Grendel vs. a max loaded 90 SMK 224V out of 24" barrels are within 15" of each other at 1000 yards.

 

[fdkay]

The 6.5 is a dandy little cartridge.
The problem is, all the fantastic stories you heard at the outset in regards to staying supersonic till 1300 yards, yada, yada, yada were all delivered out of a 24" barrel.
When you run the 6.8 and the 6.5 out of the same barrel lengths, the difference is smaller than most would believe, and the fan boys refuse to admit it.
The 6.5 would still have an advantage in regards to staying supersonic at extended ranges, but in reality, the 6.8 does just about everything well.

They are both good cartridges.
With several bolt guns being available in 6.5, I doubt it will go anywhere soon. The biggest advantage of the 6.8 is there is more bolt face left.

 

[fdkay]

I think it's still a great round just a niche type of thing, when I considered building one it was between the Grendal and 68spc. My only interest was in having a short fast handling rifle for brush hunting hogs and whitetail and went with the 68spc instead.
There were far more factory loadings for the 68 even though I mainly reload and expected shot distance would rarely be beyond 250 yards for the area I hunted. When I hunted areas that had typical shot opportunities beyond that I would have opted for one of my bolt rifles in a caliber with better ballistics and energy than either of those anyway.

I think I would be far more interested in the Grendal case necked down to 6mm if I were to build an AR with that bolt face diameter anyway, better ballistics and flatter shooting with plenty of energy to putting down deer and hogs.

That's called the 6mm PPC. Been around for decades.

 

[Shadow knows]

That's called the 6mm PPC. Been around for decades.

6mmAR I believe. I was going to do one but barrel life and the whole wildcat thing gets expensive on dies.

 

[XLR308]

That's called the 6mm PPC. Been around for decades.

For some reason I've had it stuck in my head that the shoulder position and angles were different between the two. Guess I need to go back and look at them. ?

 

[308pirate]

For hunting only, the 6.8 SPC has an edge.

I think that edge is imaginary and due only to Americans' fascination of bigger is better

 

[shoot4fun]

The really cool kids have both the Grendel and the Blackout.

I don't think Grendel is by any means dead. It's just that everything AR is being blitzed by 224V right now. So much so that I may be "forced" to add one to my pile of uppers.

 

[XLR308]

I think that edge is imaginary and due only to Americans' fascination of bigger is better

Any perceived edge shrinks even more when both cartridges are run with the mid to lighter weight monolithic bullets in reloads for hunting.
I think this is were both of these rounds really excell in a hunting scenario and drastically outclass the 556 and punch well above their weight class.

 

[BoilerUP]

I’ve noticed more interest in 6.5 Grendel this year than a LONG time...but as mentioned 224V is the “new hawtness” and has sucked the air out of other chamberings recently.

I’m seriously considering a 12” Grendel upper for one of my SBRs.

 

[m6z]

That 65grendel forum has never had much traffic. The Grendel is still getting a lot of discussion over at ar15.com. I've got two 18" builds myself. For my needs the 224 doesn't really offer anything over the 6.5 Grendel.

Steel case ammo can be had for 25 cents a round and Hornady ammo can be found at 70 cents a round.

 

[308pirate]

There was a time when every large caliber rifle I had was a 6.5

260 Remington Model 70 match rifle for NRA Highpower and a 6.5X55 CZ 550 for critter killing

I'd take a Grendel over every other non 223 AR cartridge above and below it.

 

[fdkay]

For some reason I've had it stuck in my head that the shoulder position and angles were different between the two. Guess I need to go back and look at them. ?

There are definitely differences, the performance is there. I think the PPC cases don't feed well in a semi-auto

 

[The DFC]

It fills a nice niche for hunting and range plinking to distance-on the small platform whereas you need to go to the bigger platform for 6.5 creed. Decent selection of ammo-including steel-is usually available at my goto online stores. Not a barrel burner either.

 

[ddavis]

I’ve noticed more interest in 6.5 Grendel this year than a LONG time...but as mentioned 224V is the “new hawtness” and has sucked the air out of other chamberings recently.

I’m seriously considering a 12” Grendel upper for one of my SBRs.

12.5" Grendel w/TBAC Ultra 7 was my go-to hunting rifle for a year or so. I scavenged the scope from it for something else and it sat for a year, but I'm in the process of getting it back up and running. It was a nice light package in a relatively good hunting round for anything out to 300 or so. I had a 300 BLK SBR before it was called 300 BLK and have taken several critters with it, but it just doesn't compare to the Grendel, at any barrel length.

-Dan

 

[CaptNemo]

Too bad I just ordered a new 6.5 Grendel barrel for my AR, with it dying and all.
My 300 BO upper is a novelty for use suppressed and shooting subsonic ammo.
I'd love to see the sales figures for Hornady's Grendel ammo.
I don't think I have seen a 6.8 out at the range.

 

[Srikaleak]

What kinda optic would be most favorable to a 12" Grendel build? LPVO or Red Dot? I'm thinking NF NX8 but Trijicon MRO kind of seems appealing too.

 

[Kickin45]

Didn’t the military just pick up the Grendel as it’s new round? Phasing the 5.56.
That’ll pour some new life into the Grendel and no doubt lots of new ammo offerings.

 

[hypno02]

Didn’t the military just pick up the Grendel as it’s new round? Phasing the 5.56.
That’ll pour some new life into the Grendel and no doubt lots of new ammo offerings.

No...

 

[XLR308]

Didn’t the military just pick up the Grendel as it’s new round? Phasing the 5.56.
That’ll pour some new life into the Grendel and no doubt lots of new ammo offerings.

That would be the Army and it is the 68SPC, but I don't think there will be any real movement there until summer 2019 and it will initially be in a smaller role not just issued to all the way I read it.

 

[Constructor]

For some reason I've had it stuck in my head that the shoulder position and angles were different between the two. Guess I need to go back and look at them. ?

You are correct. The Grendel and 6mmARs shoulder is further forward than the 6mmPPC. 6mmAR, 243LBC, 6mm Predator are all the same thing a Grendel necked down to 6mm.

 

[Kickin45]

Ah yes the 6.8 My bad

 

[j-huskey]

You are correct. The Grendel and 6mmARs shoulder is further forward than the 6mmPPC. 6mmAR, 243LBC, 6mm Predator are all the same thing a Grendel necked down to 6mm.

If u want a 6mm in ar15, look at the Hagar.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I've been looking at doing a 6.5 Grendel upper to reach out past what I can get with a long barreled .223
I may have to however wait and see what comes of the new 6.8 next year instead.
I actually had a 6.8 some time ago (early revision) and then sold it off.

 

[XLR308]

If u want a 6mm in ar15, look at the Hagar.

Kind of a dead end isn't it, single source for brass that isn't steadily available and questionable quality at times. Why not just neck down the 68spc, many sources for brass and excellent availability.

 

[Srikaleak]

Isn't 224 valk a necked down 6.8spc? They share the same bolt anyways. .224 Grendel would be awesome but too much of a wildcat for me.

 

[hlee]

I shot a match with my 6.5 Grendel AR last month. My overall score was as good or better than what I have shot with my 6.5 creedmoor bolt rifle. But, BUT, the 1100 yard target was out of range- my 123 gr ELD-m load was going transonic around 950 out of my 22" JP barrel- and that was 10 points I just couldn't get. I won't sell my 6.5 creedmoor any time soon, and I'll predominantly shoot it at matches, but the Grendel will be my match rifle next month. I may be weird, but recoil management and getting back on target is WAY easier with the AR and not manually running the bolt. Anyone that is divesting from the Grendel because it is dead can send me their brass...

 

[Constructor]

If u want a 6mm in ar15, look at the Hagar.

You can't shoot 95s or 105 at mag length using the Hagar or even a full length 43mm 6.8 case.

 

[j-huskey]

You can't shoot 95s or 105 at mag length using the Hagar or even a full length 43mm 6.8 case.

I was more thinking in line of an 85 grain hollow point on medium game. Wasnt looking at it for target.

I've got a 6/223 40° Ackley that I shoot 75 grainers that is impressive on pigs.

Grendel 123SST easy 300 yard pig kills. Kills better than my 6.5-06 with a 140 at 2950.

Ymmv

 

[lash]

A short story.

Guy buys 6.5 Grendel. Shoots at a couple matches, cause it’s fun and a great little rifle. It does 1000 fine but wind is twitchy and the factory 123s aren’t as easy to spot at distance. Shoots it one time when out to ELR range and has a picture of a less than 6” three consecutive shot group st 1400 yards.

I was there. Those 123s transitioned really well.

 

[MtnCreek]

...The biggest advantage of the 6.8 is there is more bolt face left.

I was surprized how little material was left around the casehead. Anyone know if grendel bolts are known to be prone to failure?

 

[hlee]

I don’t know anyone that has broken a Grendel bolt. But- like with everything else- on the internet everyone knows someone who has. If you look, you will find plenty of threads both ways. If it’s a concern, pick up a spare and throw it in your range bag or gun case. It’s never a bad idea to have some spare AR parts around anyway.

 

[Crews]

I think it’s the best non-.22 cartridge out there by a long shot in the AR-15 platform . And far from “pretty much dead”

It’s just beautiful in a 12.5” SBR and a LPV out in the field. And it’s a cheap date for medium range target shooting and learning how to read the wind.

 

[Lonehill]

After reading all these responses I believe I may just dust off that upper. Just couldn't believe there were no takers when it was up for sale on GB and 6.5 G forum. I even priced it at a hell of a loss. Even had a box of new Lapua brass and all reloading comp including dies, 30mm rings too. Guess my main loss of interest in it was it's perceived lack of killing power. Shot one buck 3 times. The other twice. Running factory 123gr SST. Sure as hell wasn't impressed. All shots were pretty well placed too. Maybe got a bad lot? Maybe our deer are tough bastards or maybe my 257wby which kills like a lightning bolt spoiled me. Anyway it was fun on steel and great for culling does especially doubles and triples

 

[XLR308]

A simple search will get the answer you seek " 65 Grendel bolt failures".
I wouldn't bother reading the threads in the G forum on the subject since there are a couple of characters one in particular I won't name that is more conflicted on the subject than Robert Mueller on the Russia probe that allways seems to be busier than a cat covering up shit anytime a topic of this sort pops up.
I have concluded for myself through my own research that some of the failures are from noobs building AR's and not paying attention to details, like.
1) Ensuring that the face of the receiver is lapped and square with the barrel extension so the bolts lugs are making equal contact and sharing the load.
2) Buying the correct spec bolt for the barrel they are using since there are two different sizes that I'm aware of .125" and .135" recess if I remember correctly.
3) Not running reloads in excess of the SAAMI pressure limits doing so would definitely reduce the bolts service life since the Grendal has more bolt thrust.
4) Not buying quality parts to begin with especially the bolt considering that it is significantly weaker buy design given the amount of material that is removed and the thrust that the round transfers to it.

All of these are points that I think most on here would be aware of or would uncover in the process of researching and building a rifle but not everyone does the research they should.

Running really high pressure loads is bad news for most AR calibers but with the Grendal and it's variants I think breaking bolts is far more problematic if someone doesn't adhere to the SAAMI pressure limits and wants to hot rod them.

Just my 2 cents and in no way bashing the 65 Grendel since it is a very capable and accurate round for the AR but has its limits like anything else.l

 

[Lonehill]

A simple search will get the answer you seek " 65 Grendel bolt failures".
I wouldn't bother reading the threads in the G forum on the subject since there are a couple of characters one in particular I won't name that is more conflicted on the subject than Robert Mueller on the Russia probe that allways seems to be busier than a cat covering up shit anytime a topic of this sort pops up.
I have concluded for myself through my own research that some of the failures are from noobs building AR's and not paying attention to details, like.
1) Ensuring that the face of the receiver is lapped and square with the barrel extension so the bolts lugs are making equal contact and sharing the load.
2) Buying the correct spec bolt for the barrel they are using since there are two different sizes that I'm aware of .125" and .135" recess if I remember correctly.
3) Not running reloads in excess of the SAAMI pressure limits doing so would definitely reduce the bolts service life since the Grendal has more bolt thrust.
4) Not buying quality parts to begin with especially the bolt considering that it is significantly weaker buy design given the amount of material that is removed and the thrust that the round transfers to it.

All of these are points that I think most on here would be aware of or would uncover in the process of researching and building a rifle but not everyone does the research they should.

Running really high pressure loads is bad news for most AR calibers but with the Grendal and it's variants I think breaking bolts is far more problematic if someone doesn't adhere to the SAAMI pressure limits and wants to hot rod them.

Just my 2 cents and in no way bashing the 65 Grendel since it is a very capable and accurate round for the AR but has its limits like anything else.l

My billet upper is a side charger running a Young mfg bcg. Had an uber fanboy super dick pm all the hazzards and terror stories of Young bolts grenading and that I should swap it out and not kill anyone and that's why I wasn't getting it sold. Smh

 

[XLR308]

After reading all these responses I believe I may just dust off that upper. Just couldn't believe there were no takers when it was up for sale on GB and 6.5 G forum. I even priced it at a hell of a loss. Even had a box of new Lapua brass and all reloading comp including dies, 30mm rings too. Guess my main loss of interest in it was it's perceived lack of killing power. Shot one buck 3 times. The other twice. Running factory 123gr SST. Sure as hell wasn't impressed. All shots were pretty well placed too. Maybe got a bad lot? Maybe our deer are tough bastards or maybe my 257wby which kills like a lightning bolt spoiled me. Anyway it was fun on steel and great for culling does especially doubles and triples

I wouldn't personally give up on it because of the poor performance you experienced on game with the SST bullet. The Hornady SST is notorious for being overly frangible in some calibers at certain velocities they behave more like a thin jacketed rapid expansion varmint bullet.
My personal choice and what I would recommend would be a mid to light weight bonded or monolithic expanding bullet like the TTSX run with plenty of velocity but sane pressures for the Grendel.
I think with that combination the Grendel has ample killing power for game up to the size of elk so long as you remain well within the expansion threshold for those types of bullets.

 

[Constructor]

I was surprized how little material was left around the casehead. Anyone know if grendel bolts are known to be prone to failure?

Several threads on the Grendel forum, a new one every few months.

 

[ChaseCO]

I haven’t shot a ton of stuff with mine, but what I have I’ve been sufficiently impressed with its ability to put game on the ground. The last was a 4x4 muley at just over 400 yards. Did fine. Furthermore, at least in a gas gun, the awesome fact of the matter is that your follow up shots are instantaneous. I love that.

 

[Shadow knows]

One has to understand every guns limitations when hunting and the 6.5G is no different. Understand your ft-lb of energy and shooter error including buck fever.
I went with mine this year but knew after 400 yds I needed to switch to my 6.5cm. Just depended on where I went is what I went with.
If your a reloader the Grendel won’t die any more than 260 rem or 26/28/30 Nosler. If your not on line store will always have ammo but your local store may stop, idk, depends on how the store sells their inventory.

6.8 will probably out sell the 6.5G I don’t doubt since the public seems to follow what the government uses like sheep vs what fits them best

 

[rybe390]

I'd hope it's not dead. I see its positioning as one of the best all around ar15 cartridges out there. It functions well as a 1,000 yard capable target cartridge as well as a solid hunting cartridge. Do other cartridges do better at specific things? Absolutely! Valkyrie beats it in the LR performance department, others are arguably a better hunting cartridge.

But, the ability to shoot 1,000 yards one day and shoot a deer to 400 yards the next is really where the grendel shines and shows how versatile it is.

This year I've shot my 18" 6.5 grendel build out to 1,100 yards at matches multiple times, and took a 4x5 buck at 320 yards. I can't complain with the performance at all.

For me, it's a massive step up from a 5.56 in the same package, and that's really all you can ask for. If you're realistic with goals and want a versatile rifle, I think the 6.5 grendel will serve you well. If you're just looking for target/comp performance, get a valkyrie. If my main goal is to shoot past 1,000 yards all the time, I'd be looking at a different platform in the first place.

Just my thoughts here!

 

[fdkay]

That would be the Army and it is the 68SPC, but I don't think there will be any real movement there until summer 2019 and it will initially be in a smaller role not just issued to all the way I read it.

They are not going with the 6.8 SPC, they are going with a 6.8 caliber, but not the spc. I would imagine that the case will be longer, likely fitting in an AR10 or something that splits the difference. It may or may not be based on the .30 rem, that would make too much sense.

 

[cjgemm]

They are not going with the 6.8 SPC, they are going with a 6.8 caliber, but not the spc. I would imagine that the case will be longer, likely fitting in an AR10 or something that splits the difference. It may or may not be based on the .30 rem, that would make too much sense.

I read case less.