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6.5 Grendel Upper recommendation

bmash

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
May 21, 2018
275
227
Zachary, LA
I have read lots of reviews and don’t see much negative on these two, but I would like options on a lightweight grendel upper. I am looking at Odin works and Alexander Arms.
I want something to deer hunt with within 300 yards that I can carry around when doing drives. I have 300BOs which don’t get there and a 260 Remington for long range.
(16” preferred since suppressor will be used.)
Thanks.
 
My buddy did an aero upper build with a faxon barrel and Bcg. It is shooting just under moa at 500 yards. That’s with a milspec trigger too.
 
I’ve got a 6.5 Grendel odin works barrel on an AR that is moa or better. It is primarily a hunting gun, but has pulled duty as a PRS comp gun too. I’m quite happy with it.
 
AA used to have a cool little 16” fluted barrel in their kit, or as an option.

They appear to be a light profile now.

My first AA 16” barrel was more of a medium heavy contour.

I helped a lot of people build 16” fluted AA uppers and they all turned out to be surprisingly-accurate.

I have a 16” Lilja Wasp profile lightweight barrel build that is very accurate as well. Has a .650” profile under the handguard, steps up to .750” at the gas block journal, then down to .740”, like my 17.6” Lilja.

If you’re trying to get one before 2022 hunting season, now is the time to order whatever path you take.
 
AA used to have a cool little 16” fluted barrel in their kit, or as an option.

They appear to be a light profile now.

My first AA 16” barrel was more of a medium heavy contour.

I helped a lot of people build 16” fluted AA uppers and they all turned out to be surprisingly-accurate.

I have a 16” Lilja Wasp profile lightweight barrel build that is very accurate as well. Has a .650” profile under the handguard, steps up to .750” at the gas block journal, then down to .740”, like my 17.6” Lilja.

If you’re trying to get one before 2022 hunting season, now is the time to order whatever path you take.
You are exactly right on order now! I already feel the time pressure!
I dread starting on a new cartridge with today’s shortages. Brass may be a real issue, but at least I see some expensive ammo available that I can buy for brass. Weight and back order time will likely be the deciding factor since I’m not hearing much bad about either product.
 
I just got done buying everything I need in order to build a 6.5 grendel which I will also use for hunting deer. Then I realized after looking at charts that the 6ARC holds more energy out to distance. I know it's not what you asked but just pointing it out because I now wish I would have gone that route.
 
I just got done buying everything I need in order to build a 6.5 grendel which I will also use for hunting deer. Then I realized after looking at charts that the 6ARC holds more energy out to distance. I know it's not what you asked but just pointing it out because I now wish I would have gone that route.
Thanks
My neighbor and I shoot a lot and he likes the 6 better as well. I like the heavier 6.5s for my expected use.
 
There's so little practical difference between the two for hunting that its a wash. Yes, "on paper whatever." The deer or hog won't know the difference. I'd go with the one I had, could find, or could load ammunition for and be happy.
 
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I just got done buying everything I need in order to build a 6.5 grendel which I will also use for hunting deer. Then I realized after looking at charts that the 6ARC holds more energy out to distance. I know it's not what you asked but just pointing it out because I now wish I would have gone that route.
The heaviest hunting bullets for 6mm are generally topping out at ~100gr with pretty low BCs, with the new 103gr ELD-X being the main exception if you can find them.

From a 16” barrel, velocities will be roughly the same with same bullet weights, though 6.5mm can probably generate 50fps faster on average since it isn’t as constrained in the neck (overbore) and has a little more case capacity.

With 6.5 Grendel, you can shoot everything from 85gr on up to 160gr, but 129gr and 130gr are common for the heavier loads, with multiple factory options in those weights. There are a lot of 85-130gr hunting bullets for 6.5 Grendel.

From 16” barrels, I’m not seeing any performance advantages for 6mm ARC even with the 103gr ELD-X, which is the highest BC/heaviest hunting bullet I’m aware of that you can shoot in it.

Here are the reference rifles I’m using for extrapolating velocity data from:

18” Noveske 6mm ARC, Hornady published Gas Gun load data with 103gr ELD-X at 2550fps with the 2 fastest powders when hand-loaded.
24” 6mm ARC 103gr ELD-X 2750fps per Hornady

6mm ARC 16”, 103gr ELD-X (.512 G1 BC Hornady), 2500fps (I rounded up from 2492fps.)
200yds 2174fps 1081ft-lbs
300yds 2021fps 934ft-lbs

6.5 Grendel 16”, 123gr SST, Litz .462 G1 BC (lower than Hornady’s .512), 2440fps
200yds 2085fps 1188ft-lbs
300yds 1920fps 1007ft-lbs

The main place you will see an advantage with the higher BC 6mm target bullets is from long barrels, with trajectory more like a 6.5CM. I think that’s where 6mm AR really shines, with light recoil/ease of sight picture management. This is my experience with 6mm AR, shooting either 20” or 26” heavy barreled AR-15s set-up for competition, not anything shorter or lighter that would be appropriate for hunting.

You can add more barrel length to 6.5 Grendel and shoot 135gr A-TIP to compete with 6mm and retain more energy on-target, but the barrel length with be something to consider.

When shooting 120gr, 123gr, and 129gr from 6.5 Grendel, you will certainly see a bit more sight picture disturbance than a 103gr in the 6mm, but it’s still manageable.

When doing load development or shooting groups, it’s easier to group with the lighter weight bullets for me, regardless of cartridge. Shooting 107gr SMKs through either feels the same, as long as the rifle weight is the same.

The 6mm has more lightweight bullet options for varmint work, and the 105-108gr class of TGT bullets have higher BCs than the 123gr class in 6.5mm, while going faster than what you can make a 123gr do in Grendel, barrels lengths equal.

Conclusions
For a practical hunter in lightweight AR-15s, I think the 6.5 Grendel makes more sense because you just have so many more bullets to choose from for heavier game, while still being able to shoot varmint weights.
 
When I went down the Grendel path I started with AA. I reached out to them with questions and they never got back to me.

So I spent twice the money on a JP. No regrets.
 
The heaviest hunting bullets for 6mm are generally topping out at ~100gr with pretty low BCs, with the new 103gr ELD-X being the main exception if you can find them.

From a 16” barrel, velocities will be roughly the same with same bullet weights, though 6.5mm can probably generate 50fps faster on average since it isn’t as constrained in the neck (overbore) and has a little more case capacity.

With 6.5 Grendel, you can shoot everything from 85gr on up to 160gr, but 129gr and 130gr are common for the heavier loads, with multiple factory options in those weights. There are a lot of 85-130gr hunting bullets for 6.5 Grendel.

From 16” barrels, I’m not seeing any performance advantages for 6mm ARC even with the 103gr ELD-X, which is the highest BC/heaviest hunting bullet I’m aware of that you can shoot in it.

Here are the reference rifles I’m using for extrapolating velocity data from:

18” Noveske 6mm ARC, Hornady published Gas Gun load data with 103gr ELD-X at 2550fps with the 2 fastest powders when hand-loaded.
24” 6mm ARC 103gr ELD-X 2750fps per Hornady

6mm ARC 16”, 103gr ELD-X (.512 G1 BC Hornady), 2500fps (I rounded up from 2492fps.)
200yds 2174fps 1081ft-lbs
300yds 2021fps 934ft-lbs

6.5 Grendel 16”, 123gr SST, Litz .462 G1 BC (lower than Hornady’s .512), 2440fps
200yds 2085fps 1188ft-lbs
300yds 1920fps 1007ft-lbs

The main place you will see an advantage with the higher BC 6mm target bullets is from long barrels, with trajectory more like a 6.5CM. I think that’s where 6mm AR really shines, with light recoil/ease of sight picture management. This is my experience with 6mm AR, shooting either 20” or 26” heavy barreled AR-15s set-up for competition, not anything shorter or lighter that would be appropriate for hunting.

You can add more barrel length to 6.5 Grendel and shoot 135gr A-TIP to compete with 6mm and retain more energy on-target, but the barrel length with be something to consider.

When shooting 120gr, 123gr, and 129gr from 6.5 Grendel, you will certainly see a bit more sight picture disturbance than a 103gr in the 6mm, but it’s still manageable.

When doing load development or shooting groups, it’s easier to group with the lighter weight bullets for me, regardless of cartridge. Shooting 107gr SMKs through either feels the same, as long as the rifle weight is the same.

The 6mm has more lightweight bullet options for varmint work, and the 105-108gr class of TGT bullets have higher BCs than the 123gr class in 6.5mm, while going faster than what you can make a 123gr do in Grendel, barrels lengths equal.

Conclusions
For a practical hunter in lightweight AR-15s, I think the 6.5 Grendel makes more sense because you just have so many more bullets to choose from for heavier game, while still being able to shoot varmint weights.

Good to know buddy...

And now here is the info I have. These are velocities from factory ammo for a 16" 6ARC & 18" 6.5 Grendel.

Screenshot_20220208-215216_YouTube.jpg
Screenshot_20220208-214743_YouTube.jpg


The 6 ARC still has more energy and speed down range. Especially when hunting, you want the speed because the more speed you have the more expansion you can get. Obviously there's exceptions here and there.

Anyhow, I was just trying to make the OP aware. If you reload, those numbers could drastically change of course. As I said, I too went with a Grendel so it is it what it is.

I agree that the deal from LaRue isn't bad at all. Considering how Grendel ammo is hard to come by and expensive, that might be a sweet choice.

Good luck OP and let us know how your build turns out.
 
Odin works doesn’t have a forward assist which I use when quietly closing the bolt in a deer stand.
Alexander Arms sounds good, but there website says 10 weeks or so wait and some reviews said they waited longer.
So, after reading LRRPF52s comment in post #4 on the Lilja barrels, I checked with them. They had fluted 18” in stock. A little heavier and longer than I was looking for, but it shipped already with the bolt! I managed to get all parts ordered today and even found some Hornady brass at Grafs. (The brass hasn’t shipped yet so we will see…)
Regarding 6mm vs 6.5mm - I shoot 260 Remington already and have lots of 6.5 hunting bullets, so combined with liking a little more weight for deer, it was an easy call.
 
Cant give you any info on the two uppers but If you go the AA route think twice before ordering brass from them when you order the upper. If you do, start sourcing elsewhere as well. I have 200 on order from them from 4 months ago. No idea what the deal is but I've gotten brass from 3 other places in that time.

You won't be disappointed with the 6.5 g. I have put a bunch of deer, hogs and even elk down with it. What I really love about it is the meat damage is so much less than with the .260, 308 or 06. I probably wouldn't go pounding a big elk through the shoulder at 300 but it pokes through ribs just fine and Ive yet to recover a bullet shooting all copper LRX.
 
Good to know buddy...

And now here is the info I have. These are velocities from factory ammo for a 16" 6ARC & 18" 6.5 Grendel.

View attachment 7803996View attachment 7803997

The 6 ARC still has more energy and speed down range. Especially when hunting, you want the speed because the more speed you have the more expansion you can get. Obviously there's exceptions here and there.

Anyhow, I was just trying to make the OP aware. If you reload, those numbers could drastically change of course. As I said, I too went with a Grendel so it is it what it is.

I agree that the deal from LaRue isn't bad at all. Considering how Grendel ammo is hard to come by and expensive, that might be a sweet choice.

Good luck OP and let us know how your build turns out.
What ammo and barrel is that on the grendel? Seems extremely low. I’m getting around 2300 from a 12.5 with any of the 3 Hornady 123 flavors and a 18” is around 2500-50