How do these two cartridges compare? I am thinking about getting a different upper for one of my AR rifles.
Thank you for any info.
Thank you for any info.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
6.5's appeal is long range, 6.8s appeal is CQB-while-retaining-mid-range-capability.
6.5's appeal is long range, 6.8s appeal is CQB-while-retaining-mid-range-capability.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
I don't see a lot of down side to the 6.5 over the 6.8, better bullet selection, better trajectory, good brass available. what you give up in diameter is made up for in its other advantages.
I don't see a lot of down side to the 6.5 over the 6.8, better bullet selection, better trajectory, good brass available. what you give up in diameter is made up for in its other advantages.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
The downside to 6.5 is actually finding anything 6.5. If your starting out that is. If you've already got the rifle, dies, and brass, no problem. 6.8 seems to be a lot more popular, although I have no idea why. I see 6.8 stuff on shelves. I never ever see any Grendel stuff anywhere (not that I ever expected to but it would be nice).
The downside to 6.5 is actually finding anything 6.5. If your starting out that is. If you've already got the rifle, dies, and brass, no problem. 6.8 seems to be a lot more popular, although I have no idea why. I see 6.8 stuff on shelves. I never ever see any Grendel stuff anywhere (not that I ever expected to but it would be nice).
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
It depends on what you are going to be using it for. Out to realistic Combat and Hunting ranges, they are pretty much the same. The further you go out, the Grendel is better.
The 6.8SPC is very popular because the guys buying them aren't looking for a 0-1000 yard gun. Most are using them for hunting out to 300 yards.
It depends on what you are going to be using it for. Out to realistic Combat and Hunting ranges, they are pretty much the same. The further you go out, the Grendel is better.
The 6.8SPC is very popular because the guys buying them aren't looking for a 0-1000 yard gun. Most are using them for hunting out to 300 yards.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mumbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The downside to 6.5 is actually finding anything 6.5. If your starting out that is. If you've already got the rifle, dies, and brass, no problem. 6.8 seems to be a lot more popular, although I have no idea why. I see 6.8 stuff on shelves. I never ever see any Grendel stuff anywhere (not that I ever expected to but it would be nice).</div></div>
do you live under a rock ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mumbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The downside to 6.5 is actually finding anything 6.5. If your starting out that is. If you've already got the rifle, dies, and brass, no problem. 6.8 seems to be a lot more popular, although I have no idea why. I see 6.8 stuff on shelves. I never ever see any Grendel stuff anywhere (not that I ever expected to but it would be nice).</div></div>
do you live under a rock ?
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
Is this a "fill out your profile" jab, or is 6.5 just a lot more popular in TX?
Is this a "fill out your profile" jab, or is 6.5 just a lot more popular in TX?
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
Being that this is a long range forum, you won't find a lot of people backing the 6.8. It's really not that impressive to me. Some people might think of it as the next great thing. To each his own...
Oh yeah, fill out your profile. It's forum rule.
Being that this is a long range forum, you won't find a lot of people backing the 6.8. It's really not that impressive to me. Some people might think of it as the next great thing. To each his own...
Oh yeah, fill out your profile. It's forum rule.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
It's not impressive to me either. I don't own one and don't want one. I do have a 6.5. I was asking Boltripper what he meant by his "do you live under a rock?" comment.
My profile is filled out. Always has been. Except the location which has been changing constantly for the past few months. It used to say WA, I erased it when I left and I'll fill it back in when I have an answer.
It's not impressive to me either. I don't own one and don't want one. I do have a 6.5. I was asking Boltripper what he meant by his "do you live under a rock?" comment.
My profile is filled out. Always has been. Except the location which has been changing constantly for the past few months. It used to say WA, I erased it when I left and I'll fill it back in when I have an answer.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
6.8 seems more popular because a lot of people with deep pockets have a vested interest in it. Was developed for a specific role for some special people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
6.5 is better for what most here are looking for (LR shooting). But since it was developed outside the bubble its not going to have the foothold of the 6.8 IMO.
Looking at the data of the 6.5 it just hard to not like it. Almost 308 performance in a platform that will drop into an AR. I have given much thought to having a 6.5 upper in leiu of an AR10.
6.8 seems more popular because a lot of people with deep pockets have a vested interest in it. Was developed for a specific role for some special people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
6.5 is better for what most here are looking for (LR shooting). But since it was developed outside the bubble its not going to have the foothold of the 6.8 IMO.
Looking at the data of the 6.5 it just hard to not like it. Almost 308 performance in a platform that will drop into an AR. I have given much thought to having a 6.5 upper in leiu of an AR10.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
So step aside from the 6.5 Grendel & 6.8SPC and throw into the mix the 6.5 Creedmore. That will offer the bigger difference to compare.
The Grendel and SPC allow a shooter to use the standard AR platform if they so choose while the Creedmore requires the larger AR10 sized lowers. But if sticking to strictly boltguns then I would opt for the Creedmore for overall punch.
Sorry for the side-track to the thread.
So step aside from the 6.5 Grendel & 6.8SPC and throw into the mix the 6.5 Creedmore. That will offer the bigger difference to compare.
The Grendel and SPC allow a shooter to use the standard AR platform if they so choose while the Creedmore requires the larger AR10 sized lowers. But if sticking to strictly boltguns then I would opt for the Creedmore for overall punch.
Sorry for the side-track to the thread.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.8 seems more popular because a lot of people with deep pockets have a vested interest in it. Was developed for a specific role for some special people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC <span style="color: #FF0000">Most of the creators of the guys that had anything to do with the 6.8SPC have pretty much abandoned it. The SPC is where it is because it has found a nitch in the Hunting circles.</span>
6.5 is better for what most here are looking for (LR shooting). But since it was developed outside the bubble its not going to have the foothold of the 6.8 IMO. <span style="color: #FF0000">That is crazy. The reason the Grendel hasn't taken off more is because of the stranglehold Bill Alexander has put on it. Even the Grendel guys will admit that. </span>
Looking at the data of the 6.5 it just hard to not like it. Almost 308 performance in a platform that will drop into an AR. I have given much thought to having a 6.5 upper in leiu of an AR10.
</div></div>
The problem with the Grendel is the platform. Short Fat rounds just aren't as reliable as the skinnier ones. That is the main issue with it. The SPC has less fedding issues as long as it has the M4 feedramps. I'm on my 5th SPC and there are no leliability issues with it. I personally love both rounds, but in the AR15 platform, I prefer the SPC. Hopefully, with the SCAR and the ACR, that will change things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.8 seems more popular because a lot of people with deep pockets have a vested interest in it. Was developed for a specific role for some special people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC <span style="color: #FF0000">Most of the creators of the guys that had anything to do with the 6.8SPC have pretty much abandoned it. The SPC is where it is because it has found a nitch in the Hunting circles.</span>
6.5 is better for what most here are looking for (LR shooting). But since it was developed outside the bubble its not going to have the foothold of the 6.8 IMO. <span style="color: #FF0000">That is crazy. The reason the Grendel hasn't taken off more is because of the stranglehold Bill Alexander has put on it. Even the Grendel guys will admit that. </span>
Looking at the data of the 6.5 it just hard to not like it. Almost 308 performance in a platform that will drop into an AR. I have given much thought to having a 6.5 upper in leiu of an AR10.
</div></div>
The problem with the Grendel is the platform. Short Fat rounds just aren't as reliable as the skinnier ones. That is the main issue with it. The SPC has less fedding issues as long as it has the M4 feedramps. I'm on my 5th SPC and there are no leliability issues with it. I personally love both rounds, but in the AR15 platform, I prefer the SPC. Hopefully, with the SCAR and the ACR, that will change things.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
6.8 vs 6.5 is apples and oranges.
the debate has been done over and over again.
6.8 vs 6.5 is apples and oranges.
the debate has been done over and over again.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
paulsantos,
In regards to the performance I'm looking purly at the data on paper and after much comparison the 6.5 looks impresive, thats all I was saying. If one were to want to build up a rifle that would have close to 308 charictaristics without investing in an AR 10 type rifle this looks like a solution. Wasnt aware of feeding issues so thats good to know...any specifics on that for the curious?
My remark on having a foothold was from what appears to be backing a round that at one time looked like it may be put into mass use. LMT, Barett and a few others offer 6.8's and I'm sure at one point they were looking to see their product put into use. Ammo manufactures also seemed to follow suit.
I also wasnt aware of Alaxanders stranglehold. Seems like a shame if thats the case.
Do you have any load data to support one over the other? Not starting shit but I really would like to see something that shows the 6.8 in a better light. Looking to build an upper at some point so this would be helpful.
A.S.
paulsantos,
In regards to the performance I'm looking purly at the data on paper and after much comparison the 6.5 looks impresive, thats all I was saying. If one were to want to build up a rifle that would have close to 308 charictaristics without investing in an AR 10 type rifle this looks like a solution. Wasnt aware of feeding issues so thats good to know...any specifics on that for the curious?
My remark on having a foothold was from what appears to be backing a round that at one time looked like it may be put into mass use. LMT, Barett and a few others offer 6.8's and I'm sure at one point they were looking to see their product put into use. Ammo manufactures also seemed to follow suit.
I also wasnt aware of Alaxanders stranglehold. Seems like a shame if thats the case.
Do you have any load data to support one over the other? Not starting shit but I really would like to see something that shows the 6.8 in a better light. Looking to build an upper at some point so this would be helpful.
A.S.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
The subject seems simple to me...6.8SPC for more power than 5.56 in an AR-15 platform to be used for close to medium range pursuits and more reliable.
6.5G for short,medium and long range pursuits in an AR-15 platform and less reliable but more accurate.Don't forget it's loosely based off 6PPC the most accurate cartridge ever designed with small flash hole and small rifle primer.Ballistics superior(subjective) to 308.
Steve
The subject seems simple to me...6.8SPC for more power than 5.56 in an AR-15 platform to be used for close to medium range pursuits and more reliable.
6.5G for short,medium and long range pursuits in an AR-15 platform and less reliable but more accurate.Don't forget it's loosely based off 6PPC the most accurate cartridge ever designed with small flash hole and small rifle primer.Ballistics superior(subjective) to 308.
Steve
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">paulsantos,
In regards to the performance I'm looking purly at the data on paper and after much comparison the 6.5 looks impresive, thats all I was saying. If one were to want to build up a rifle that would have close to 308 charictaristics without investing in an AR 10 type rifle this looks like a solution. Wasnt aware of feeding issues so thats good to know...any specifics on that for the curious?
<span style="color: #FF0000">When the guys that created the SPC, they first tried to just make an AR upper that would work with the 7.62x39. They couldn't, even with the help of PRI. The bolt issues are also a problem in the AR. The Grendel round, which is based on the 7.62x39, is just too fat and it further weakens the AR Bolt. Again, the AR bolt is the weakness and that is one of the major reasons that I stated that the Grendel would be a much better choice in another platform. Mags are another issue. Currently all of the mags are made by C-Products and they are hit or miss. When the Grendel was tested by the Government, it couldn't pass the full auto test because it would jam up.</span>
My remark on having a foothold was from what appears to be backing a round that at one time looked like it may be put into mass use. LMT, Barett and a few others offer 6.8's and I'm sure at one point they were looking to see their product put into use. Ammo manufactures also seemed to follow suit.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, the 6.8SPC has more backing by manufacturers and I don't know if it is due to the licensing of the Grendel or because of some of the issues. Either way, I would like to see more manufacturers put out more Grendel products.</span>
I also wasnt aware of Alaxanders stranglehold. Seems like a shame if thats the case.
<span style="color: #FF0000">It is a big shme. It appears that Bill Alexander is somewhat loosening up a little bit and making it easier for other manufacturers to get permission to build Grendels.</span>
Do you have any load data to support one over the other? Not starting shit but I really would like to see something that shows the 6.8 in a better light. Looking to build an upper at some point so this would be helpful.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have pretty much tested every bullet and powder combination from a 14", 16", and 20" SPC barrel, and all of that info is posted on the 68forums. I just recently purchased a 16" LMT MRP barrel that I just sent out to get it cut to 14". I don't have a Grendel yet becaue I'm hoping LMT will make a barrel for it.
As far as the ballistics of the 6.8SPC, it is very simple. If you use the Hornday 110 Gr. V-Max (.370 BC), 110 Gr. BTHP (.360 BC), Hornady 110 Gr. HP (.352 BC), and the new 110 Gr. Accubond (.410 BC), you are looking at the same exact trajectory and velocity as the 75/77 Gr. bullets for the .223, but being 35 Gr. heavier, they obviously hit with more energy. The Grendel rounds, like the Sierra 107 and 123 have a much higher BC and match up closer to the .308 in trajectory and velocity, although they don't have the same energy when they get there since they weigh much less. Probably the best bullet out to 600 yards for the SPC is the Speer 90 Gr. TNT. I can get 2900 FPS out of my 14" barrel with no pressure signs and they are super accurate.
As I stated many times on this foruma nd others, the problem with the SPC is the lack of good BTHP bullets. The Hornady bullets, although they have a decent BC, their stupid spire point ogive, make them very hard to get consistant accuracy out of them, especially with the SPCII Chambers. Trust me, I have tried and the best I got was 1.75MOA. If someone comes out with a nice 110 Gr. BTHP with a BC of .370, which is possible, then the SPC will be a great short to medium range cartridge. It will NEVER be a 1000 yard cartridge for anything other than paper. It is what it is.
</span>
A.S. </div></div>
If there is anything specifi you'd like to know, let me know.
NOTE: I don't claim to be an absolute expert on the SPC, but at least I have put on honest 15+K rounds down range, so at least I know a little something about it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">paulsantos,
In regards to the performance I'm looking purly at the data on paper and after much comparison the 6.5 looks impresive, thats all I was saying. If one were to want to build up a rifle that would have close to 308 charictaristics without investing in an AR 10 type rifle this looks like a solution. Wasnt aware of feeding issues so thats good to know...any specifics on that for the curious?
<span style="color: #FF0000">When the guys that created the SPC, they first tried to just make an AR upper that would work with the 7.62x39. They couldn't, even with the help of PRI. The bolt issues are also a problem in the AR. The Grendel round, which is based on the 7.62x39, is just too fat and it further weakens the AR Bolt. Again, the AR bolt is the weakness and that is one of the major reasons that I stated that the Grendel would be a much better choice in another platform. Mags are another issue. Currently all of the mags are made by C-Products and they are hit or miss. When the Grendel was tested by the Government, it couldn't pass the full auto test because it would jam up.</span>
My remark on having a foothold was from what appears to be backing a round that at one time looked like it may be put into mass use. LMT, Barett and a few others offer 6.8's and I'm sure at one point they were looking to see their product put into use. Ammo manufactures also seemed to follow suit.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, the 6.8SPC has more backing by manufacturers and I don't know if it is due to the licensing of the Grendel or because of some of the issues. Either way, I would like to see more manufacturers put out more Grendel products.</span>
I also wasnt aware of Alaxanders stranglehold. Seems like a shame if thats the case.
<span style="color: #FF0000">It is a big shme. It appears that Bill Alexander is somewhat loosening up a little bit and making it easier for other manufacturers to get permission to build Grendels.</span>
Do you have any load data to support one over the other? Not starting shit but I really would like to see something that shows the 6.8 in a better light. Looking to build an upper at some point so this would be helpful.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I have pretty much tested every bullet and powder combination from a 14", 16", and 20" SPC barrel, and all of that info is posted on the 68forums. I just recently purchased a 16" LMT MRP barrel that I just sent out to get it cut to 14". I don't have a Grendel yet becaue I'm hoping LMT will make a barrel for it.
As far as the ballistics of the 6.8SPC, it is very simple. If you use the Hornday 110 Gr. V-Max (.370 BC), 110 Gr. BTHP (.360 BC), Hornady 110 Gr. HP (.352 BC), and the new 110 Gr. Accubond (.410 BC), you are looking at the same exact trajectory and velocity as the 75/77 Gr. bullets for the .223, but being 35 Gr. heavier, they obviously hit with more energy. The Grendel rounds, like the Sierra 107 and 123 have a much higher BC and match up closer to the .308 in trajectory and velocity, although they don't have the same energy when they get there since they weigh much less. Probably the best bullet out to 600 yards for the SPC is the Speer 90 Gr. TNT. I can get 2900 FPS out of my 14" barrel with no pressure signs and they are super accurate.
As I stated many times on this foruma nd others, the problem with the SPC is the lack of good BTHP bullets. The Hornady bullets, although they have a decent BC, their stupid spire point ogive, make them very hard to get consistant accuracy out of them, especially with the SPCII Chambers. Trust me, I have tried and the best I got was 1.75MOA. If someone comes out with a nice 110 Gr. BTHP with a BC of .370, which is possible, then the SPC will be a great short to medium range cartridge. It will NEVER be a 1000 yard cartridge for anything other than paper. It is what it is.
</span>
A.S. </div></div>
If there is anything specifi you'd like to know, let me know.
NOTE: I don't claim to be an absolute expert on the SPC, but at least I have put on honest 15+K rounds down range, so at least I know a little something about it.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
LOL 15K is that all
Thanks for the info. Its hard to find good ol no BS answers a lot of times when you have two forums devoted to different calibers and both seem to do a good job of supporting one over the other.
FWIW I was not aware that the 6.5 was ever evaluated by DOD so thats something new to me.
Thanks for taking the time, expect a PM with some futher questions if you dont mind.
LOL 15K is that all
Thanks for the info. Its hard to find good ol no BS answers a lot of times when you have two forums devoted to different calibers and both seem to do a good job of supporting one over the other.
FWIW I was not aware that the 6.5 was ever evaluated by DOD so thats something new to me.
Thanks for taking the time, expect a PM with some futher questions if you dont mind.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL 15K is that all
Thanks for the info. Its hard to find good ol no BS answers a lot of times when you have two forums devoted to different calibers and both seem to do a good job of supporting one over the other.
FWIW I was not aware that the 6.5 was ever evaluated by DOD so thats something new to me.
Thanks for taking the time, expect a PM with some futher questions if you dont mind. </div></div>
My wife isn't too happy with all of the money I've spent on it, trust me.
I'll help out in any way I can.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Station</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL 15K is that all
Thanks for the info. Its hard to find good ol no BS answers a lot of times when you have two forums devoted to different calibers and both seem to do a good job of supporting one over the other.
FWIW I was not aware that the 6.5 was ever evaluated by DOD so thats something new to me.
Thanks for taking the time, expect a PM with some futher questions if you dont mind. </div></div>
I'll help out in any way I can.
Re: 6.5 grendel vs. 6.8spc???
I was really hot on a 6.5 for a while, but then I decided I will keep my AR's as 5.56. I don't like losing expensive brass, or chasing them through the sage brush. 556, if I am feeling flush, I can just leave on the ground.
I was really hot on a 6.5 for a while, but then I decided I will keep my AR's as 5.56. I don't like losing expensive brass, or chasing them through the sage brush. 556, if I am feeling flush, I can just leave on the ground.
Tactical Brass Recovery, and you'll never lose another piece of brass again... nor have to pick it up off the ground.
I have a 6.5G and haven't ever had feeding issues(?). I'm guessing a lot of "feeding" issues were the results of some crappy magazines early on. The newer mags feed flawlessly.
WRT AA strangle hold, pretty sure that's over. Kind of like Todd Kindler's strangle hold in .20 Tactical...eventually the market forces them to open up, or die.
In an appropriately barreled upper (length of barrel) the 6.5G can give some pretty impressive performance. I'd say out to 700yds without issue, but after that (IME) performance starts to drop as wind and environmentals come into play. That being said, I've taken mine successfully out to 985yds during a local match (calm morning, minimal wind). IME the 6.5G is an impressive amount of performance, crammed into a small cartridge.
WRT AA strangle hold, pretty sure that's over. Kind of like Todd Kindler's strangle hold in .20 Tactical...eventually the market forces them to open up, or die.
In an appropriately barreled upper (length of barrel) the 6.5G can give some pretty impressive performance. I'd say out to 700yds without issue, but after that (IME) performance starts to drop as wind and environmentals come into play. That being said, I've taken mine successfully out to 985yds during a local match (calm morning, minimal wind). IME the 6.5G is an impressive amount of performance, crammed into a small cartridge.
