My next rifle is going to be a 6.5 PRC or 6.5 Creedmoor. I will mostly be using it for target use but may occasionally take it hunting. What are the biggest differences between the two aside from velocity? I have no hands on experience with either, I have only ever shot larger cartridges. Thanks!
- Thread starter kdykstra97
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- 6.5 creedmoor 6.5 prc
Only benefit of PRC is a little more speed.
Creedmo is better in every other category.
Creedmo is better in every other category.
^^^Whatever @Rob01 says.
My buddy and I both have seekins Havaks. His is PRC mine is CM. Accuracy is identical; The recoil difference is significant. And I can get CM ammo as low as 70 cents a round. He can’t get close to that outside of a fire sale.
My buddy and I both have seekins Havaks. His is PRC mine is CM. Accuracy is identical; The recoil difference is significant. And I can get CM ammo as low as 70 cents a round. He can’t get close to that outside of a fire sale.
With the velocities guys are getting in 6.5CM with RL26 the PRC/SAUM is less and less worth my while.
This!
The better question might be 6.5 CM versus .260 Rem. I know the market sort of settled this one in favor of the CM, but there are plenty of folks here on the Hide ready to post up some "260 Master Race" memes. A .260 AI with the mag length to run it long is a pretty decent middle ground, even if it does mean rolling your own ammo. I've got a CM myself - shoot factory ammo for cheap, easy choice for lots of folks.
Damn troll...
Oh, and the answer to the OP, if he ignores my meme above, is 6.5 Creedmoor.
People can push that bullet at those speeds out of a CM lol...
Not at safe pressures. A couple years back I pressure tested it and 62ksi was right around 48gr of RL-26 with a 147 at 2.810 in a SAAMI chamber. 2850ish fps.
@BoltActionBrotherhood where you at lol
read post #4 from the below link...
6 cm vs. 6.5cm at a mile
I'm looking to set up a new rifle for shooting PRS. Due to a variety of factors, I am getting it chambered in either 6.5CM or 6CM. I have a 6.5 I shoot now occasionally out to a mile, and one thing I run into is the difficulties of spotting hits and misses at that distance. I'm looking for...
www.snipershide.com He pushed a 153 @3000+ out of a 26" barrel. Don't quote me on the barrel length, that I'm not 100% sure on.
Yeah so I wanted to see how fast I could push the 153 atips in my creedmoor. Using a 26 inch barrel I got them up to 3050 FPS with RL26.... WITH MASSIVE PRESSURE LOL. Super heavy bolt lift, ejector marks etc.
3000fps was pretty mild bolt lift, but to close for comfort. 2930-2950 I didn’t show any pressure signs at all, and is a load I will continue to run when I’m trying to touch something past 2000 yards.
Rl26 is the unicorn powder for 6.5 if you want speed, but I could never get it to group like I can with RL16, which get my normal load moving at 2830fps without any issues.
3000fps was pretty mild bolt lift, but to close for comfort. 2930-2950 I didn’t show any pressure signs at all, and is a load I will continue to run when I’m trying to touch something past 2000 yards.
Rl26 is the unicorn powder for 6.5 if you want speed, but I could never get it to group like I can with RL16, which get my normal load moving at 2830fps without any issues.
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I have heard you get better barrel life out of the 6.5 prc due to different powder options. Can anyone confirm that?
I have not heard that. believe the added the speed on the PRC tends to be a barrel burner. I had a creedmoor and sold it. Wanted another rifled and went PRC for the increase Knock down power
You would think you would get worse barrel like because it’s more over bore. And I’m pretty sure they is less powder options for prc, and most of them are impossible to find RL26, h1000 etc.
seems like the creedmoor will use just about any powder.
seems like the creedmoor will use just about any powder.
My order managed to come in
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Pressure signs as most people read them start showing up around 70-78ksi. Wish I had a personal pressure test barrel to run "the internet's" loads through and see what people are actually subjecting their stuff to.
If there is not a heavy bolt lift, or zero sign of pressure on the case. It’s safe In my book.Pressure signs as most people read them start showing up around 70-78ksi. Wish I had a personal pressure test barrel to run "the internet's" loads through and see what people are actually subjecting their stuff to.
The only reason to go PRC over Creedmoor is for the velocity gain. I don't know where you're located, but I can get my Creedmoor to 1650ish yards and still stay above the transonic zone. I just ordered a 25 PRC barrel so I can use the 131 Blackjack bullets in a necked down 6.5 PRC case, but that's only for mile+ shooting. Everything short of that distance, the Creedmoor is more than adequate.
Your still burning 60ish grains of powder in a 6.5 hole.
Maybe another 100?
Lol
I’ve seen that thinking go bad.
I saw it happen this winter, shot with a guy who found out loads on edge can get ugly when cases get wet.
Another friend smoked his bolt from getting greedy on a hot day.
That extra 50-100 FPS comes at a cost.
Currently as it sits I am getting 2993 FPS with the 147gr ELD-M and 57.5gr H1000 out of my 6.5 PRC with a 24” barrel. Most likely could go higher but am holding lower for a class with a 3000 FPS limit.
In my limited Creedmoor loading I was getting the 143gr ELD-X to 2650 FPS with 44gr of Superformance in a 22” barrel though that barrel was practically new. I loaded 20 test rounds picked the best one and loaded 300 for a shooting class the next week. Working on prepping 1500 cases for load work ups on 4 bolt guns and an AR now that I can’t get American Gunner for less than $1 a round and there is a financial incentive to roll my own.
For hunting I used a Creedmoor in 2018 and the PRC in 2019. I killed 3 deer from 50 to 225 with the Creedmoor using the 143gr ELD-X, one dropped and the other two ran a short distance before dying.
With the PRC I killed a Crow at 300, a buck at 60 and a bear at 60 all in less than 24 hours using the 122gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos at roughly 3200 fps with 57.5gr Superformance. The buck dropped but the bear took 3 to the boiler room, upon butchering it was clear that all of them were fatal but I was not taking the chance of him running off. Add to that a wild boar my dad killed in SC using the same load and my personal opinion is that I prefer the PRC for hunting.
In my limited Creedmoor loading I was getting the 143gr ELD-X to 2650 FPS with 44gr of Superformance in a 22” barrel though that barrel was practically new. I loaded 20 test rounds picked the best one and loaded 300 for a shooting class the next week. Working on prepping 1500 cases for load work ups on 4 bolt guns and an AR now that I can’t get American Gunner for less than $1 a round and there is a financial incentive to roll my own.
For hunting I used a Creedmoor in 2018 and the PRC in 2019. I killed 3 deer from 50 to 225 with the Creedmoor using the 143gr ELD-X, one dropped and the other two ran a short distance before dying.
With the PRC I killed a Crow at 300, a buck at 60 and a bear at 60 all in less than 24 hours using the 122gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos at roughly 3200 fps with 57.5gr Superformance. The buck dropped but the bear took 3 to the boiler room, upon butchering it was clear that all of them were fatal but I was not taking the chance of him running off. Add to that a wild boar my dad killed in SC using the same load and my personal opinion is that I prefer the PRC for hunting.
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What other way is there to actually test pressure? Let me guess...... by the book?
People don't go testing for pressure in a lab or with whatever equipment is used to test pressure. When you're developing a load, do you not look for pressure signs such as heavy bolt lift, cratered primers, etc?
I'm not saying you're wrong or you're not wrong but it's very practical to consider high pressure with said signs...
Scott Satterlee told me to water test my loads, and if they pass “run em” haha
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The PRC is burning more powder in the same size diameter so my understanding is less barrel life...
Im common sense thinking the same thing, the 6.5PRC is a short mag, anyone heard of a short magnum that Doesnt burn barrels out..? 6.5creed is so readily available if you didnt want to handload and its affordable at that. I dont handload anymore and because of that Id go 6.5creed. If you do handloads then thats a different story'
-Reagan
My understanding is that because you can use a powder like H1000 you will get a longer barrel life over using Powder like 4350. Since it has more to do with the pressure at the throat than the velocity. But I’m interested to hear if this is true or not.
Holy batfuck that is SMOKING. Even at 2950 for a 150 class bullet that makes me wonder why I am fucking around with the SAUM at all. When my RL26 backorder comes in Ill have to give the super heavies a shot in the CM.
That has to be hell on the barrel though.
Pressure signs as most people read them start showing up around 70-78ksi. Wish I had a personal pressure test barrel to run "the internet's" loads through and see what people are actually subjecting their stuff to.
I would like to see that as well. I love seeing people compare speeds from an unsafe load compared to another caliber loaded with a slow to average load of a bigger caliber. Why push shit that hard when you can step up to a bigger caliber and not have to worry.
Factory Hornady 147s and my RL26 reloads both run 3020 in my 26" MPA barrel. I run 54.14gr of RL26, and the book max is 55.7.
In all these PRC vs. xxx threads and the various load data threads, I've seen 2900 to 3200 using max RL26 loadings. Someone on here has had real good luck with RL25.
I've not shot a CM so I have no basis for comparison with recoil, but the girlfriends daughters who weigh all of 110# have no problem shooting my PRC.
If people are gong to compare calibers, then compare factory to factory loadings, or insane max loading to insane max loadings and see that the PRC is still going to out run the CM by the very nature of the larger case capacity.
In all these PRC vs. xxx threads and the various load data threads, I've seen 2900 to 3200 using max RL26 loadings. Someone on here has had real good luck with RL25.
I've not shot a CM so I have no basis for comparison with recoil, but the girlfriends daughters who weigh all of 110# have no problem shooting my PRC.
If people are gong to compare calibers, then compare factory to factory loadings, or insane max loading to insane max loadings and see that the PRC is still going to out run the CM by the very nature of the larger case capacity.
I can only imagine some folks are coloring on the margins to use existing gear, or maintain compatibility with ancillary equipment, or make use of more available support/supplies for reloading. Some folks might just want to push the envelope for its own sake.
My almost 45 lb, almost 6 y/o handles my 6.5 CM w/o issue. The recoil energy on the PRC is certainly not outside the realm of tolerable for normal folks, though. I think about folks like Tia Shoemaker - weighs about as much as your daughter, totes a sub-8 lb .416 Rem Mag and stepped up to that from .375 - and when a bunch of dudes on the internet are talking about recoil in cartridges with less recoil than .30-06 in just about any context other than spotting your own shots causes me to chuckle inwardly. ;-)
I can see this thread has gone totally bonkers. LOL Can the PRC give more velocity? Of course, it's a larger case. Does the OP need it for his uses? Doesn't sound like it from his post.
OP get the Creedmoor and go have fun.
OP get the Creedmoor and go have fun.
Except if you load prc to same proof load specs, than it's still 200-250fps faster.
I don’t know why you’d try H4350 in a 6.5PRC.
4831 is above the slowest I’d try.
You could try N160 as I think it has a reputation of burning cool but your still burning 50% more powder than a 6.5CM in the same sized hole.
Remember when the 6.5 saum got popular with incredible life claims with H1000?
I do and I also remember the plethora of threads asking why my 6.5 saum barrel die less than halfway from touted claims.
Then It came out you have to set the barrel back every 600 rounds or so to get that life.
Meh, just like Creedmoor, the prc has its preferred powder. H4831sc, retumbo, imr 8133, imr7977 all work, but h1000& rl26 is best.
Nope, prc is pretty close to same powder capacity as 6.5-284. Those go about 1200rds in f class
Yep, typically does in caliber comparisons, lol. You will have guys that have or had both cartridges in question, they have their personal data to tell about. Then you have the guys that have a 2nd cousin who's sister dated a guy that shot prs and was getting 2950 with a 147 in a 6.5creed. Then procedes to compare that as the normal 6.5creed benchmark to a slow lot of factory 147 6.5prc.
Brotherhood's data is interesting but mostly anecdotal. What you can push max to, what you can push safely to in different conditions, and what is mist consistently accurate are usually 3 different loads. I always get slow barrels, compared to internet speed lore, I always see what people are getting then subtract 50fps and see if that works for me. If not I step up to a bigger case.
6.5creed is a very balanced, great cartridge. It does alot of things good. Outside of hunting big game or dedicated elr shooting, 6.5creed is a good blanket answer.
No question the 6.5 PRC is going to give you more energy for hunting. But, so what? Dead is dead, regardless. I would say if 6.5 CM isn't enough gun for what you're hunting, maybe you need to step up to something more than a 6.5 PRC, JMHO.
Yeah again my test to get the 6.5cm that fast was just that a TEST. In no way should a 6.5cm ever run at those speeds for anything more than a test, in fact I wouldn't even recommend testing it that high. If my brass wasnt newer good lapua brass I think I would have had some serious issues. (Interestingly enough the lapua was able to handle about 100fps more than my norma cases)
I think the benchmark HIGH for the 150 class bullets is going to be 2800fps range with the right powder (Rl16 or 26) I have ran these numbers without any issues for 2 years.
When comparing speed there is no comparison, the PRC is going to be 200-300 fps faster. Each cartridge has its pros and cons.
In MY eyes. If you are hunting or doing some more elr type stuff with the cartridges I would go prc. If you are using it for matches, or just target shooting or if cost is a concern 6.5cm is the way to go.
I am curious if I pushed a 6.5cm to 3050, I wonder how fast a 6.5prc could actually be pushed with that bullet class 3200???.
I think the benchmark HIGH for the 150 class bullets is going to be 2800fps range with the right powder (Rl16 or 26) I have ran these numbers without any issues for 2 years.
When comparing speed there is no comparison, the PRC is going to be 200-300 fps faster. Each cartridge has its pros and cons.
In MY eyes. If you are hunting or doing some more elr type stuff with the cartridges I would go prc. If you are using it for matches, or just target shooting or if cost is a concern 6.5cm is the way to go.
I am curious if I pushed a 6.5cm to 3050, I wonder how fast a 6.5prc could actually be pushed with that bullet class 3200???.
I agree.
And I recommend everyone else stick to following the reloading manual.
Very true, it then turns into an arms race. Been thinking a lot about this lately actually so Ill put my thoughts here. I 6.5'd all the things and have a Grendel, Creed, and SAUM. Grendel was super easy to load for but not relevant here. CM was very very easy to get 140s up to 2750 with long brass life even with Hornady brass. The SAUM is close enough to the PRC that I think my experience is relevant.
I know every barrel is different but I have to run my SAUM pretty damn hard to get even close to the design speed of 3200/3100 with the 130/140. Im at 63.5/61.5 H1000 and still only 3150/3050 and thats with a can. 140s had pressure so I backed down to around 61 and getting 3000-3025. The 130 is great at 63.5 though, 3150 with 9 fps ES, light recoil, great accuracy, and I got 10 loads on my test lot of Hornday Gen 1 brass before primer pockets were done so I know its not super hot.
But with those numbers Im not that far off a fast Creed and the SAUM is more an incremental step up than a quantum leap so Ive been questioning its relevance, for me personally. If I am using 60 odd grains to get that performance, in my mind Im thinking why not step up to a 300 and run 70 odd grains with a 215 hybrid and get that quantum leap in capability/performance. Shooting steel to a mile and now that Im retired and the mil isn't deploying me during hunting season yeah after year Ill be hunting in the PNW.
I have an SRS so caliber changes are waaaay too easy and Ive been asking myself if I stay with the SAUM or go with a 300. Still leaning towards a fast twist SAUM barrel and shooting the 150s since I have all the components on hand.
A 156 @ 3000 would make me happy. Some of the SAUM guys are pushing them fast...
This is 6.5PRC data...
Guys that pushing 6.5 creed at 2900+ with a 140gr class bullet are loading hot! That's the thing. I can hit 3150 in my prc with 140eldm and still get 3/4moa, but I run it at 3090 and get .25-.35moa. Hitting 2900 in a creed isn't a mild load or even warm, its hot. Sure guys get lucky and run a fast 26"+ barrel and don't care about throat life or brass life. Its pretty similar to 6 creed, and I'm guilty of this, factory saami pressure 6creed ammo runs 2975ish. For yrs it was regurgitated that it can safely and easily run as fast as 243 with better barrel life. I always thought that was tough with out having more pressure than 243. Than Hornady and berger come out with factory ammo at 2925-2975. Meanwhile guys load up to 3175 because George said so, and then wonder why horn brass sucks cause they lose primer pockets in 2 firings.
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I agree with you... except if it’s RL26, 2900 with a 140 gr. has never given me any pressure signs at all. Now if I did that with any other powder yes, that is a hot load. Rl26 does something magical with the creedmoor (or so it seems)
My last 6.5 barrel I put 4000 rounds through it and it still shot .4 moa 5 shot groups.
Maybe the slow burn rate of rl26 just doesn’t show pressure signs as well. But quickload told me I was under pressure as well, but you can’t always trust quick load.
Hey man, I can't argue with your results. That sounds like a unicorn barrel to get that speed, life, and show no pressure. It happens, but its more the exception than rule. You can't discount other guys that aren't as savvy reloaders, read that and say 2900+ or bust and don't know what to look for in high pressure before they get in trouble.
I've had some stupid fast loads that were "safe" in my barrels and components. How about a 26" 6br that ran 2945 with 105hybrids and a 25" 243ai that ran 3340 with 105s.
I Got these speeds in both my barrels, but yeah. I am defiantly not running sammi case length, Sammi coal, and low neck tension etc, all these things defiantly attribute to the results.
and I am sure 2900 would be the peak I could run without running into Preasure signs, anything more than that I’m sure I would run into something!
I you are right, I probably should even post these results for the newer Reloaders that don’t know what to look for, and thinking it’s easily obtainable.
and I am sure 2900 would be the peak I could run without running into Preasure signs, anything more than that I’m sure I would run into something!
I you are right, I probably should even post these results for the newer Reloaders that don’t know what to look for, and thinking it’s easily obtainable.
