6.5 X 55 (Swede) question about chamber cuttinig

[dondlhmn]

I'm in the process of figuring out what I want to use for my next project..both 6.5mm, but caliber choices will be the 55 (Swede) and the other is the 47 Lapua. I've changed horses in midstream a couple of times already as I gather more and more info, but here is my question about the Swede...How are you all having the chambers cut/reamed...SAAMI spec or something else that is more suitable for bullets more in the lighter/shorter end of the spectrum like maybe 120 to 140 grain area and NOT for heavier /longer bullets? I'd like to get this done where I won't be calling myself stupid names later regarding free bore when I discover that the light booolits have to be seated so far out that they aren't held well in the brass. Any comments or experiences with this facet of reloading the 6.5 Swede (or the 47 Lapua, for that matter) would be appreciated as I have never messed with this caliber. I am mainly interested in chambering and/or action choice info....I have several candidates...a short action 700 Remington (can the Swede be used in this if I stick to bullets under 140 grains and I single feed it?), a Remmy 700 long action and the last one is a Savage that is currently configured as a .308 Winch heavy barrel tactical stocked, etc..etc.., but that one does seem too long (at least the ejection port) for the .308, which makes me think that a nice Krieger stuck on that action just might be the pussy's MEOW........THOUGHTS, anyone?? Especially thoughts based on EXPERIENCE??

Oh, yeah...sure wouldn't mind hearing about the 55 Swede vs the 47 Lapua 6.5s regarding anything that comes to mind when you read this..velocities, accuracy, brass availability/forming, case life, barrel life, what powders seem to be the best magic, etc, etc....I know that different rifles will be different, but having some idea would put me in at least the right ballpark...whatever I can learn to avoid re-inventing the wheel would be helpful...would save me time and money and would be a big help in making the right decisions to get the build RIGHT in the first place as I am already spending way more than momma knows about in this....!!

Don't be shy now...I PROMISE I won't laugh, chuckle or give you a hard time, though I MAY just ask for more info!!

TIA!!

Don J

 

[targaflorio]

I walked SHOT show looking for help building a 6.5x55. I have a Swedish Mauser I love.
You will be hard pressed to do it in a short action.
The coal can run 3.15". Less than that and you are giving up case capacity and might as well go 260 or x47
For bullets for target shooting I would try the smk142 or new lapua 136.
Good powders include Rl 22, H1000 and similar burning rate powders. Sierra recommends varget in their Accuracy load.
If I build a Swede, I will probably start with a Tikka action.
Good luck! I love the cartridge.

 

[MrSwede]

You need a long action to take advantage of the calibers potential.

As mentioned a Tikka action is a great starting point.

 

[dondlhmn]

Thanks for the input, guys. I wouldn't mind trying a Tikka action, but the ones I have aren't Tikkas and neither the Remmy 700s nor the Savages are slouches. Other than being pretty much decided that it IS going to be one of those actions and that I am going to shot nothing but 120 to 140 grain bullet weights in this thing, I am still trying to figure it out.


targaflorio: when you speak of giving up powder capacity, is that the case with just the heavier bullets seated to meet SAAMI specs, or have you have some experience with the lighter 120 to 140 grain bullets seated out where they are closer to the rifling? Usually COAL is more concerned with getting the loaded cartridge through the magazine and I am not all that concerned about that for a singe fed rifle with a sled in the top of the magazine to kind of convert it into a single shot.....

Thanks again!

 

[targaflorio]

Published COAL specs are generally driven by SAAMI. The Swede COAL is 3.15"
Reloading manuals will also give you a COAL for each bullet. Lapua shows the Swede Coal from 2.756" with a 100 gr fmj to the max listed 3.15"
Berger, on the other hand, lists every Swede load at the max oal of 3.15" and suggests optimal performance might be achieved at a different, read longer, oal.

The COAL affects the bullet jump and the case capacity. Larger case capacity lets you use more powder and achieve a higher velocity. If you are single feeding, then you would want the largest case capacity you can get, therefore the longest COAL, short of the bullet falling out... Or running into the rifling prematurely.

That's the advantage of the swede over the short action 6.5's.
I load to 3.15" in my Mauser and it shoots great for iron sights. 142 gr Smk.

I am not a gunsmith, so I defer on what the max cartridge length you can headspace in a remmy 700 short action. Are you cutting the chamber yourself?
I don't know what the Savage looks like. Of the three choices, I would discount the short action and go with the long action. I would pick the 142 Smk or the 136 gr scenar and cut the chamber so the bullet is kissing the lands at 3.15".
Stuff it with H1000 and get around 2800 fps with a longish barrel.
The cartridge base measures .480" vs the 308 win .473 so you would want to double check the bolt requirement.
Those are my thoughts and not professional advice. Good luck! I envy you.
...Of course with a long action you can build a 6.5-284 Norma and go faster...

 

[Rprecision]

I have looked at the swede and x 47. It is my conclusion the swede will be like a fat girl in a geo metro.

Yeah, she can drive it, yeah it works..........................but

As an aside, you may try taking this to the Gunsmithing section. I know this has been discussed in length there with people far brighter and expirenced then I

 

[alfson]

I had my Savage 110 rebarrelled from 30-06 to 6.5x55. It is a long action. It did not require a bolt face change. Most push feed bolts of 30-06 bolt face(.473 rim dia) will work fine for the 6.5x55(.480 rim dia). The controlled round feed bolts such as the 1903 Springfield usually need to be opened up a little.

 

[dondlhmn]

Published COAL specs are generally driven by SAAMI. The Swede COAL is 3.15"
Reloading manuals will also give you a COAL for each bullet. Lapua shows the Swede Coal from 2.756" with a 100 gr fmj to the max listed 3.15"
Berger, on the other hand, lists every Swede load at the max oal of 3.15" and suggests optimal performance might be achieved at a different, read longer, oal.

The COAL affects the bullet jump and the case capacity. Larger case capacity lets you use more powder and achieve a higher velocity. If you are single feeding, then you would want the largest case capacity you can get, therefore the longest COAL, short of the bullet falling out... Or running into the rifling prematurely.

That's the advantage of the swede over the short action 6.5's.
I load to 3.15" in my Mauser and it shoots great for iron sights. 142 gr Smk.

I am not a gunsmith, so I defer on what the max cartridge length you can headspace in a remmy 700 short action. Are you cutting the chamber yourself?
I don't know what the Savage looks like. Of the three choices, I would discount the short action and go with the long action. I would pick the 142 Smk or the 136 gr scenar and cut the chamber so the bullet is kissing the lands at 3.15".
Stuff it with H1000 and get around 2800 fps with a longish barrel.
The cartridge base measures .480" vs the 308 win .473 so you would want to double check the bolt requirement.
Those are my thoughts and not professional advice. Good luck! I envy you.
...Of course with a long action you can build a 6.5-284 Norma and go faster...

Yeah..COAL is basically driven by the magazine length and what length bullet can be loaded and still maintain that SAAMI standard length or less. The second thing SAAMI gets involved in is maximum pressure and with the Swede, there are a lot of older rifles around that can't take the pressures modern guns can....SO...SAAMI, wanting to be sure that some goofball doesn't blow up his 1706 XYZ chambered in 6.5 X 55 Swede, they restrict the pressure to one that is safe in about anything you can find that is chambered for that round.
A heavy bullet, being longer from the base to the ogive and/or to the nose of the bullet generally has to be seated deeper into the case to keep the OAL down to what will go through magazines. Lighter bullets tend to be shorter from base to ogive when compared to similar style, but heavier bullets. This means that the heavier bullets, in order to maintain OAL of the cartridge must be seated more deeply into the case, which limits powder capacity. This leads me to think that the shorter actions just may be able to handle the Swede when loaded with lighter bullets..AND the rifle' barrel/chamber are cut appropriately FOR the use of shorter (and lighter) bullets. COAL does affect bullet jump, but the amount of free bore that the reamer produces AND the seated depth of the bullet also affects the distance the bullet has to travel to engage the rifling.

As far as bolts go...Cartridges are not the only thing that can affect how well the bolt face fits the case. 6.5 Swede brass produced in Europe or to European specs does have a larger base diameter, but US made guns all use the .308 bolt face, which will produce a problem with the cartridge head not wanting to go into the bolt face easily..or sometimes not go in at all. OTH, US made brass (including 6.5 Swede) mostly has the .308 bolt face (base.rim) dimensions so the cases work fine in about any rifle. A bolt is no big deal to open out to the larger diameter required for the Swede and it is done all the time. The other option is to trim the European brass to a smaller diameter, but I don't like that because the depth of the groove between the rim and the case body is larger on European brass and results in the extractor having less room to get a hold and do it's job (depending on the type of extractor...some work OK).

I agree that having a gunsmith with a bit of 6.5 Swede experience chime in here would be a good thing...and the idea of checking out the gunsmithing section (Forum) is not a bad idea...

You say that you would discount the short action, but don't say which bullets you have tried in what actions and how you measured them or whether you single fed them or used the magazine...can you give me more info on your experiences with that or share some of your measurements and/or collected data??

I have considered the 6.5-284 and I agree that they go faster, but the guys I know that have them all gripe about erosion problems...barrel problems, etc and i don't want to have to deal with that...Not to mention that the 284 conversions are not as accurate as the 6.5 Swede OR the 6.5 X 47 Lapua......I'd MUCH rather have a little less velocity and better accuracy AND better barrel life than go for speed.

Thanks for the help, guys.

 

[JWV]

Original Swedes fired a 160 grain round nose if I am not mistaken. I doubt many gunsmiths are still using that style of reamer for the swede. Most now would likely be designed for the 140s as there aren't really any 160gr bullets around or popular. When it comes to velocity the 6.5x55 should torch a 6.5x47 Lapua but it will do it less efficiently. Modern action load data is starting to become more available but many of the books only have data for the old small ring Mausers. I think general consensus is to start at a moderate to high load in a 260 and that should be lowish in the Swede. Either way, the Swede is a great cartridge with Lapua brass. I just had a barrel spun up in 6.5x55AI to straighten out the body taper and pick up some speed!

 

[targaflorio]

Yes, Lapua advertises a 100 gr bullet loaded to 2.756". So it is doable in a short action. Just depends on what kind of ballistics you're trying to achieve. For long range shooting, I would always look for the higher BC's. in 6.5, the 142 Smk gets high marks.
I never followed through on my 6,5 build, just a year of debating what my build would look like. I hope yours works out.