Well was interested in getting a new ar most likely an sp10 in 6.5 as I'd found a screaming deal on one but now with the new 224 I'm reconsidering. I know they aren't exactly identical but both would be useable for my situation. Mostly used for long range plinking, occasional coyote and prairie dog hunting if I can get out west. Which caliber would you guys go with?
- Thread starter rwatson708
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I think if you can deal with the weight of a large frame platform the 6.5 creedmoor can do it all. You can push 90 grain 6.5 bullets to 3500 fps for a flat shooting varmint round. You can shoot heavier 140+ grain loads for deer/elk or more energy down range. If you don't want to deal with the large frame then your next best option looks like the valkyrie.
The splash or hit confirmation is the biggest difference IMO and would take my 6.5cm over .224 anything for shooting past 600yds any day for that reason alone. I was shooting my 22" 6.5cm semi along with my 26" .223 bolt gun at 700yds yesterday. Boring accuracy on a 6" swinger in 15mph cross wind with gusts up to 25mph shooting 140 ELD-M at 2790 with nice loud hits on steel.
Shooting that same 6" swinger at 700yds in .223 with a 80 Amax at 2910 you couldn't hear the bullet impact the steel if any wind was blowing. You could only see the plate swing back and forth upon impact. The few shots when the wind died down you could just barely hear impact at 700. Dont get me wrong, I was getting very consistent hits with the 223 and the elevation was almost identical to my 6.5cm and windage was only a .25mil different. But other than the steel plate swinging, you cant hear shit unless its a super calm day out.
Shooting that same 6" swinger at 700yds in .223 with a 80 Amax at 2910 you couldn't hear the bullet impact the steel if any wind was blowing. You could only see the plate swing back and forth upon impact. The few shots when the wind died down you could just barely hear impact at 700. Dont get me wrong, I was getting very consistent hits with the 223 and the elevation was almost identical to my 6.5cm and windage was only a .25mil different. But other than the steel plate swinging, you cant hear shit unless its a super calm day out.
I tried that and hated it. The best bullets will not feed in a large frame AR. Pressure spiked pretty quick and I was popping primers above 2900 fps. If I were to do a 6mm in an AR I would go fat rat in a small frame. And I think .224 Valkyrie would still beat that out.
My large frame is being switched over to 6.5 CM and I have a JP 224 Valkyrie barrel on order. Looking forward to shooting both soon.
Apparently not everyone got that memo...
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017...for-winner-at-precision-rifle-gas-gun-opener/
Saw that. That's what motivated me to try it. All JP internals on mega receivers. Accuracy was excellent. 1 in 5 primers in factory Hornady 108 would pop. Handloads started popping just over 2900. 107 SMK shot and fed well. 105 hybrids jammed into the back of the barrel. Same with 110 SMKs. Even JP did not recommend these bullets when I spoke to them about it.
I eventually got good velocity (2950 with 22" barrel) with Lapua small primer brass necked down. But I hated to be beating up expensive brass like that.
Im sure Tyler would have won with anything.
This is always one of those 'loose' comparisons that are never apples to apples and oranges to oranges. So, how do you decide? Whithout falling back on what is fashionable for the day.
Figure out what you need for where you are what and what you want to do. Research the possible cartridges and platforms (AR10, AR15...) that each can go in. Find the best BC bullets for long range. See if your cartridge of choice will fit in the platform of your choice to include mag feeding system. Break that down to see. Like if putting a 90 gr. bullet in anything semi-auto is worth it vs. a higher BC 6mm or 6.5mm.
You might not like a full power midsize cartridge in an AR platform like you would a light power cartridge (6mmG, 6.5G i.224 Val) n an AR15 platform. Then again, under your own circumstances, it's the best way to go. Maybe you are in wide open country and want fast follow-ups. From a long distance, you might need more than what a bolt-gun normally carries. So, be thinking the volume you would need. Would that be better suited to a small platform or a large platform?
Figure out what you need for where you are what and what you want to do. Research the possible cartridges and platforms (AR10, AR15...) that each can go in. Find the best BC bullets for long range. See if your cartridge of choice will fit in the platform of your choice to include mag feeding system. Break that down to see. Like if putting a 90 gr. bullet in anything semi-auto is worth it vs. a higher BC 6mm or 6.5mm.
You might not like a full power midsize cartridge in an AR platform like you would a light power cartridge (6mmG, 6.5G i.224 Val) n an AR15 platform. Then again, under your own circumstances, it's the best way to go. Maybe you are in wide open country and want fast follow-ups. From a long distance, you might need more than what a bolt-gun normally carries. So, be thinking the volume you would need. Would that be better suited to a small platform or a large platform?
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You can't win anything if your rifle is all jammed up. He was running 105 Berger Hybrids @ 2980. JP recommends the Berger 105's right on their Web site.
Bottom line is that anything outside of a 308 is going to take a lot of tuning in a gas gun 6.5 Creedmoor included. I've seen factory 6.5 loads come out of a gas gun that were destroyed. There is another thread on here right now asking about HP bolts preventing swipes.
I been a huge fan of the 6.5 grendel for a pickup/ranch rifle for predators and hogs over my 6 creedmoor due to the AR 15 is so much lighter and easier to handle over a AR 10.
I never thought something would come along that would peak my interest in replacing my grendel's but the valkyrie has me thinking. I got 2 JP grendels and a JP PCS-11 thats been in the closet for 4 years unfired in the box. One of these rifles likely to get a rebarrel.
I never thought something would come along that would peak my interest in replacing my grendel's but the valkyrie has me thinking. I got 2 JP grendels and a JP PCS-11 thats been in the closet for 4 years unfired in the box. One of these rifles likely to get a rebarrel.
Yes, you are correct in that it will take tuning. In my case no amount would have gotten me results I was happy with. But as we all know, different guns behave differently even with the same or similar parts.
I'm sure Tyler would not have run with anything that he thought was unreliable. I was hoping to copy his rifles performance but was not able to.
Maybe he had a larger feed cone on his barrel than I did(both JP). Maybe he didn't care as much about brass life as I do. It clearly worked for him and not for me. Shit happens and I've moved on. But I shared my experience because it was different.
Here is a picture of a round loaded with a 105 jammed into the back of the barrel. Nothing is holding the carrier open other than the round.
Here is my brass after the first firing (I mark my brass with the number of firings it's seen). The fastest I've ever run a load was 2960 and that one popped after one shot.
I had originally wanted to go with a custom barrel but my gunsmith (very well known here) refused saying that 6mm in a large frame was too problematic.
In any case with the 6.5 CM vs .224 Valkyrie I think is apples to oranges due to the receiver size. I am actually building up both at the moment so we shall see in a few months.
lennyo3034,
Do you (did you?) know the throat length of your barrel?
Do you (did you?) know the throat length of your barrel?
Sorry you couldn't get it to run, another take away from this is there is no "spec" when it comes to large frame Receivers. I have a 2A Xanthos set sitting in it's box waiting for me to figure out what I want to build, If anything.
I did take measurements but don't remember. I no longer have the barrel.
I do recall that the throat was shorter than expected. I found my best loads were 107s loaded to 2.780"
I think you can guess the gist of what I was getting at. Most "super-accuracy nuts" like the throat cut for the bullet they want to use. Often it's short. Which doesn't work in an AR platform (big or little) very well. Anyhow, the barrel is gone. Something to mull over until you figure out your next 6mm. If you go that route again.
Yup, reading all this I was thinking the same thing - "Sounds like that barrel had a short throat." That can make a lot more difference in raising pressure than some guys realize.
Great point. That I will absolutely consider. For the 6.5 Creedmoor barrel I decided to go with a .193 freebore based on the gunsmith suggestions. I may not be able to chase lands as well, but I'm hoping to avoid the same issues.
Patriot Valley did my 2nd 6.5cm Bartlein 22" with +2 gas back in the beginning of the year. It is throated shorter than my first Bartlein done by Keystones Accuracy. Both are tack drivers. I'm slinging 140 eld at 2790 and coal is 2.83", I was closer to 2.85 in the first barrel.
Do you remember how much freebore that reamer had? If you had to choose between a shorter or longer throat, what would you pick?
Honestly, I didn't think I would like the short throat on the second barrel but it's actually the best 6.5cm barrel I've ever had. It's insanely accurate, I was banging a 6" swinger st 700yds at NH on Thursday with some buddies and they were amazed how easy it was.
All I all, this second barrel is the best I've had. But only with the JP barrel extension. The BAT's destroyed brass they were so sharp. After tuning with agb and JP SCS heavy brass looks like it's fired out of a bolt gun.
All I all, this second barrel is the best I've had. But only with the JP barrel extension. The BAT's destroyed brass they were so sharp. After tuning with agb and JP SCS heavy brass looks like it's fired out of a bolt gun.
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