So I am looking at having an ultra light 6.5x284 built for a pack rifle. I have heard that they have feeding problems if you build them on a short action. With this being a lightweight build I want a short, what are your thoughts on the matter and why would it make a difference in feeding?
Gunsmithing 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
- Thread starter huckjare
- Start date
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
The difference isn't enought to worry about. Do the long action and you can seat the high BC bullets out long.
The difference isn't enought to worry about. Do the long action and you can seat the high BC bullets out long.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
I see no reason not to build a short action.
I have a 7mm-284 built on a short action. I use Alpha mags and load my cartridges to 2.950" COAL (tip to tip). I achieve 2825fps with a 175smk, with a moderate load of 54gr H4831sc.
The length of the good 140gr 6.5mm bullets is nearly the same as the ~170gr 7mm bullets, so effective case capacity of the 6.5-284 and 284 (loaded with heavies) is essentially the same. My understanding is most 6.5-284 loads use ~52-53gr H4831sc, so there's plenty of room, even with a short action, to fit that much powder.
Your mag box is going to need to support at least 2.925" COAL though. 2.800" isn't enough.
I see no reason not to build a short action.
I have a 7mm-284 built on a short action. I use Alpha mags and load my cartridges to 2.950" COAL (tip to tip). I achieve 2825fps with a 175smk, with a moderate load of 54gr H4831sc.
The length of the good 140gr 6.5mm bullets is nearly the same as the ~170gr 7mm bullets, so effective case capacity of the 6.5-284 and 284 (loaded with heavies) is essentially the same. My understanding is most 6.5-284 loads use ~52-53gr H4831sc, so there's plenty of room, even with a short action, to fit that much powder.
Your mag box is going to need to support at least 2.925" COAL though. 2.800" isn't enough.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
I would go with long action! I have a 6.5x284 that has a badger dbm and loads flawlessly!!! It's in a stiller tac300, so long action. Best way to get the best out of that caliber.
I would go with long action! I have a 6.5x284 that has a badger dbm and loads flawlessly!!! It's in a stiller tac300, so long action. Best way to get the best out of that caliber.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
I have a 6.5-.284 on a short Remington 700 action. Superbly accurate, but if I want to shoot the heavier, longer bullets, I have to single load.
In retrospect, I should have used a long action.
Richard
I have a 6.5-.284 on a short Remington 700 action. Superbly accurate, but if I want to shoot the heavier, longer bullets, I have to single load.
In retrospect, I should have used a long action.
Richard
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
Okay, so the verdict is a long action. How much weight difference do you guys think there will be between a short and a long action? I have toyed with the idea of a 6.5 creedmore instead of the 6.5x284. Gonna have a little less recoil on an ultra light rig and still gets the nice 140 6.5 bullet down range with great performance. And I can build that on a short action no problem, I think.
Okay, so the verdict is a long action. How much weight difference do you guys think there will be between a short and a long action? I have toyed with the idea of a 6.5 creedmore instead of the 6.5x284. Gonna have a little less recoil on an ultra light rig and still gets the nice 140 6.5 bullet down range with great performance. And I can build that on a short action no problem, I think.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
Wyatts extended box on a short action. If you are going to build on a long action there are much better rounds to use that added length.
Wyatts extended box on a short action. If you are going to build on a long action there are much better rounds to use that added length.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wyatts extended box on a short action. If you are going to build on a long action there are much better rounds to use that added length. </div></div>
What would you recommend? My purpose for this build is good ballistics with minimal recoil because it is an ultra light rig. Anything much bigger will need a break, I'm kind of a whimp, and I hate how loud they are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wyatts extended box on a short action. If you are going to build on a long action there are much better rounds to use that added length. </div></div>
What would you recommend? My purpose for this build is good ballistics with minimal recoil because it is an ultra light rig. Anything much bigger will need a break, I'm kind of a whimp, and I hate how loud they are.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
unless you cut notches in a ( factory ) short action...you won`t have the ability to use longer bullets.......
weight wise the difference in a LA vs SA can be made up in the recoil pad area....
bill larson
unless you cut notches in a ( factory ) short action...you won`t have the ability to use longer bullets.......
weight wise the difference in a LA vs SA can be made up in the recoil pad area....
bill larson
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
The .501 case body and 480 case head combined with a steep entry angle into the feedramp/breech face can (not always) make reliable feeding a challenge. The case will want to try and slip under the bolt face and then the gun just locks up. Longer box magazines squashed into a short action are just trying to emulate what a long action already does for you.
-you get the baby without all the labor pains (I love Al Pachino's way of putting things)
The icing is virutally unlimited freedom with heavy 6.5 bullets in terms of seating depth. Just know that for a repeating/sporter type rifle you'll probably have best results with a fair amount of neck tension. The cartridges will be inclined to try and bounce around in the magazine during recoil. (not that a 6.5x285 kicks all that much, but in a light weight huntin/killin machine recoil will be more noticable) Increasing neck tension helps ensure that the seating depth doesn't change as you cycle through a magazine of ammunition. -The last round being the one that gets its ass kicked the most because it had to put up with every shot before it.
The added neck tension can make the pressures go up a bit more. Especially with conservative neck ID chambers. Because of this I'd run a SAAMI neck. You need the case to "let go" of the bullet as pressure builds.
If we were discussing this build, I'd say clamp down on neck tension, run a SAAMI ID neck for the chamber, throat the bugger so that you take full advantage of the powder column, and allow the thing to have around .02-,05 distance off the lands. Some may not agree with the freebore due to how aggressive this cartridge is on a barrel. A 1K target rifle that see's sustained shot strings every weekend will eat a barrel much quicker than one that sees maybe 250 rounds a year.
You want the gun to "cough" the bullet down the bore. When a gun "sneezes" you'll see the difference right away with pressure, standard deviation, and ultimately vertical on the target at longer distances. Neck tension, seating depth, bullet weight, bullet bearing surface length, and powder charge influence this.
The weight difference between a long/short action is minimal. A few ounces saved can turn into pounds worth of aggravation when a gun doesn't run reliably.
Good luck!
C.
The .501 case body and 480 case head combined with a steep entry angle into the feedramp/breech face can (not always) make reliable feeding a challenge. The case will want to try and slip under the bolt face and then the gun just locks up. Longer box magazines squashed into a short action are just trying to emulate what a long action already does for you.
-you get the baby without all the labor pains (I love Al Pachino's way of putting things)
The icing is virutally unlimited freedom with heavy 6.5 bullets in terms of seating depth. Just know that for a repeating/sporter type rifle you'll probably have best results with a fair amount of neck tension. The cartridges will be inclined to try and bounce around in the magazine during recoil. (not that a 6.5x285 kicks all that much, but in a light weight huntin/killin machine recoil will be more noticable) Increasing neck tension helps ensure that the seating depth doesn't change as you cycle through a magazine of ammunition. -The last round being the one that gets its ass kicked the most because it had to put up with every shot before it.
The added neck tension can make the pressures go up a bit more. Especially with conservative neck ID chambers. Because of this I'd run a SAAMI neck. You need the case to "let go" of the bullet as pressure builds.
If we were discussing this build, I'd say clamp down on neck tension, run a SAAMI ID neck for the chamber, throat the bugger so that you take full advantage of the powder column, and allow the thing to have around .02-,05 distance off the lands. Some may not agree with the freebore due to how aggressive this cartridge is on a barrel. A 1K target rifle that see's sustained shot strings every weekend will eat a barrel much quicker than one that sees maybe 250 rounds a year.
You want the gun to "cough" the bullet down the bore. When a gun "sneezes" you'll see the difference right away with pressure, standard deviation, and ultimately vertical on the target at longer distances. Neck tension, seating depth, bullet weight, bullet bearing surface length, and powder charge influence this.
The weight difference between a long/short action is minimal. A few ounces saved can turn into pounds worth of aggravation when a gun doesn't run reliably.
Good luck!
C.
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
The easiest way would be to seat a bullet of your choice into a case. Take a caliper and measure the diameter of the "loaded" neck. This will give you a base line on loaded neck dia. With bushing style dies you can dial in you neck tension with a selection of bushings. For example for the 6.5, .287,.288,.290,ect are usually good choices.
Say your neck measured .292 you could go with a .289 bushing for .002ish neck tension allowing for some spring back. To achieve more tension use a smaller bushing
btw- a micrometer would be more accurate but most folks don't have them
R
The easiest way would be to seat a bullet of your choice into a case. Take a caliper and measure the diameter of the "loaded" neck. This will give you a base line on loaded neck dia. With bushing style dies you can dial in you neck tension with a selection of bushings. For example for the 6.5, .287,.288,.290,ect are usually good choices.
Say your neck measured .292 you could go with a .289 bushing for .002ish neck tension allowing for some spring back. To achieve more tension use a smaller bushing
btw- a micrometer would be more accurate but most folks don't have them
R
Re: 6.5x284 Short or Long Action
Wow this is all way more technical than I am. I dont shoot competition or anything, but I'm still confused as to why the neck matters. Just makes more or less pressure? Sorry, all I do is load the stuff and shoot it. I don't have bushing dies, just the cheap RCBS full length stuff.
Wow this is all way more technical than I am. I dont shoot competition or anything, but I'm still confused as to why the neck matters. Just makes more or less pressure? Sorry, all I do is load the stuff and shoot it. I don't have bushing dies, just the cheap RCBS full length stuff.
