Got everything figured out for my next build except caliber. With Lapua and others making quality 6.5CM brass, is there any reason to take the 6.5x47 over the CM anymore? Aside from just wanting to be differnt, I cant think of any real upside to the 6.5x47 and the downsides would be the lack of brass options which isnt really the end of the world as I can buy as much as I'll need for the foreseeable future. .
- Thread starter hitman44
- Start date
Yeah, I just feel like the 6,5 is the Toyota and the 6.5x47 is the Lexus, basically the same thing....just with more class 
6.5x47 is slightly slower. So you will use slightly less powder and you will have slightly more barrel life and you will have slightly more wind deflection and drop and according to the benchrest crowd, slightly better inherent precision. Everything is a trade-off when it comes to cartridge selection.
6.5 PRC maybe?
Just went back and forth on this recently and landed on 6.5 Creed due to the abundance of quality factory ammo when reloading is not a priority.
I had 2 different barrels chambered by 2 different smiths in x47. I went with 47 because the entire Internet said a bad load was 1/2 moa. Neither barrel shot well for me at all. Most reamer for x47 have too tight a neck. I'm using Creedmoor now, and will never look back.
I would go 6.5 Creed over the x47. I have both it's just nice having options for brass and the fps difference is enough to notice.
Pretty much what I heard aswell.
I had actually decided on 6.5CM at one point for this reason. Then I looked at the match factory 308 I have laying around and realized even when I have factory ammo available, there has never been a time when ive gone to the range and didnt want to take my best hand loads with me.
I figure 300 pieces of brass and I should be able to get close to barrel life before needing to replace it.
Perhaps but I bought the barrel already and have triple the amount of 6.5 bullets than I do 6mm.
Prior proper planning
My advice is lighter billers, like the 123s and ones in that class
My advice is lighter billers, like the 123s and ones in that class
I’m gonna maybe be a little against the grain here, and definitely ramble. Just some thoughts, so don’t take this as advice or gospel.
What makes a cartridge relevant? What makes it irrelevant? Case design has not made any significant advances in many years for the chamberings in common use today, we’re just continuing to tweak with them and all the permutations of parent cases multiply.
Obviously I’m leaving out the space age stuff @THEIS alludes to, but that’s not in common use yet so that’s all I have to say about that.
What matters, to me, are hits. Hits where I want them, not line cutters or skint edges. I think we can all agree on that one constant, we want to be able to put the bullet where WE want it, everything else is just having fun.
If relevancy is determined by how fast it gets there and how badly it kicks the wind’s ass, then we’re in a whole other conversation. If it’s determined by barrel life, or a balance between speed and barrel life, that’s been an ongoing thing for many years, and in a lot of cases we’re just rehashing what’s already been done by wildcatters for years and making our own marks on them.
The important thing to remember is something Frank touched on, maximizing the case. Not just the capacity, or any singular thing. It’s a concert of things. Neck length, shoulder angle, body taper, web thickness, flash hole thickness, primer pocket size, and efficiency of powder column combustion. Not to mention tailoring the reamer print for specific bullets, but I’m not even gonna go down that rabbit hole or @Tucker301 will ban me for talking too much, or inciting a riot, or something like that ?
Now, maximizing the cases potential can mean different things to different people, for different uses. If you want an elk or bear payload delivery device that’s gonna buck winds across a canyon in Oregon or Montana, etc, and give a big bull the ole donkey stomp, it’s an entirely different thing. Same goes with varmint shooting, predator hunting, etc etc ad nauseum.
If you want a match rifle that beats the wind but also needs to stay cool enough through the shot string to avoid the potential of walking POI, which can happen even with the heaviest barrel when a shit ton of powder is being burned, then you pick a chambering maximized for that use, including reamer details and considerations for magazine length feeding and keeping the base of the bearing surface in front of the neck/shoulder junction. Determine how often you can afford to replace barrels, and most importantly, one that gives you the warm and fuzzies. Confidence is everything. It’s smart to look at what’s winning 1k benchrest, they fire off a 10 shot string faster than most people can work a bolt and have developed great things, many of which are commonly talked about and used here.
I think the hardest thing to do is keep an open mind, and to learn what makes a chambering good, bad, great, marginal, or to realize that most any chambering can be optimized and made to shoot well. Some just tune better than others. Some will shoot better than others, and are empirically proven to do so.
Sorry for the ramble, cartridge design and application have been a major interest for me for over 20 years.
TL;DR - No, I don’t think it’s irrelevant.
What makes a cartridge relevant? What makes it irrelevant? Case design has not made any significant advances in many years for the chamberings in common use today, we’re just continuing to tweak with them and all the permutations of parent cases multiply.
Obviously I’m leaving out the space age stuff @THEIS alludes to, but that’s not in common use yet so that’s all I have to say about that.
What matters, to me, are hits. Hits where I want them, not line cutters or skint edges. I think we can all agree on that one constant, we want to be able to put the bullet where WE want it, everything else is just having fun.
If relevancy is determined by how fast it gets there and how badly it kicks the wind’s ass, then we’re in a whole other conversation. If it’s determined by barrel life, or a balance between speed and barrel life, that’s been an ongoing thing for many years, and in a lot of cases we’re just rehashing what’s already been done by wildcatters for years and making our own marks on them.
The important thing to remember is something Frank touched on, maximizing the case. Not just the capacity, or any singular thing. It’s a concert of things. Neck length, shoulder angle, body taper, web thickness, flash hole thickness, primer pocket size, and efficiency of powder column combustion. Not to mention tailoring the reamer print for specific bullets, but I’m not even gonna go down that rabbit hole or @Tucker301 will ban me for talking too much, or inciting a riot, or something like that ?
Now, maximizing the cases potential can mean different things to different people, for different uses. If you want an elk or bear payload delivery device that’s gonna buck winds across a canyon in Oregon or Montana, etc, and give a big bull the ole donkey stomp, it’s an entirely different thing. Same goes with varmint shooting, predator hunting, etc etc ad nauseum.
If you want a match rifle that beats the wind but also needs to stay cool enough through the shot string to avoid the potential of walking POI, which can happen even with the heaviest barrel when a shit ton of powder is being burned, then you pick a chambering maximized for that use, including reamer details and considerations for magazine length feeding and keeping the base of the bearing surface in front of the neck/shoulder junction. Determine how often you can afford to replace barrels, and most importantly, one that gives you the warm and fuzzies. Confidence is everything. It’s smart to look at what’s winning 1k benchrest, they fire off a 10 shot string faster than most people can work a bolt and have developed great things, many of which are commonly talked about and used here.
I think the hardest thing to do is keep an open mind, and to learn what makes a chambering good, bad, great, marginal, or to realize that most any chambering can be optimized and made to shoot well. Some just tune better than others. Some will shoot better than others, and are empirically proven to do so.
Sorry for the ramble, cartridge design and application have been a major interest for me for over 20 years.
TL;DR - No, I don’t think it’s irrelevant.
The pending 1k record that coming from x47 from bill was 2740fps with 140..yes its the indian but it tells also what the cartridge capabilities. The 10 shots 1k record was also with x47
With 123 scenars (not 100% sure) but i know its either 123 or 136 scenars...
I also got 6x47 and IMO is more finicky than original 6.5x47
A 15-20fps diff between the two is less chance (from missing dial by .1m) error than a shooter at father distance..
With 123 scenars (not 100% sure) but i know its either 123 or 136 scenars...
I also got 6x47 and IMO is more finicky than original 6.5x47
A 15-20fps diff between the two is less chance (from missing dial by .1m) error than a shooter at father distance..
I picked up a rifle that was barreled in 6.5 x 47 and promptly had a 6.5CM barrel built for it . That being said, every rifle is a compromise because if you want extreme performance you pay for it, if you want long barrel life you also pay for it. That is why every rifle is purpose built, and not just in terms of cartridge.
Back to the 6.5x47, I purchased 100 rounds of loaded ammo for a premium as only Lapua sells loaded ammo. The factory loading shoots great but is quite slow and very accurate. I needed the brass anyway so its not a loss. It seems like a really nice cartridge and by all accounts is known to be easy to develop accurate loads for. I concur with Frank that to make this little gem shine its best it will be with the lighter bullets (gain speed, but lose BC - the whole compromise thing again). I don't think you are going to see the 6.5x47 making any kind of a major comeback in popularity as the CM has completely run away from it at this point but it's still a great little cartridge in its own right. I see the 6.5x47 as always having a small cult following that lives for the ultimate accuracy potential.
. That being said, every rifle is a compromise because if you want extreme performance you pay for it, if you want long barrel life you also pay for it. That is why every rifle is purpose built, and not just in terms of cartridge.Back to the 6.5x47, I purchased 100 rounds of loaded ammo for a premium as only Lapua sells loaded ammo. The factory loading shoots great but is quite slow and very accurate. I needed the brass anyway so its not a loss. It seems like a really nice cartridge and by all accounts is known to be easy to develop accurate loads for. I concur with Frank that to make this little gem shine its best it will be with the lighter bullets (gain speed, but lose BC - the whole compromise thing again). I don't think you are going to see the 6.5x47 making any kind of a major comeback in popularity as the CM has completely run away from it at this point but it's still a great little cartridge in its own right. I see the 6.5x47 as always having a small cult following that lives for the ultimate accuracy potential.
I shoot 130 eldm in mine and it does fine. Again I can get more out of my creedmoor and still yet more out of my 260. The difference is I can go to academy and buy creedmoor rounds for $14 on sale that will absolutely go out to 1k and not even have to touch my reloading bench. The marketing hype of the creedmoor brought cheap ammo to masses, you can buy it at Walmart for God's sake.
The availability and marketing of the creedmoor made the x47 and the 260 obsolete not the actual performance.
The plus for me of the x47 is the fact it loves varget and so does my 6br so I can keep a chargemaster loaded up with varget.
The availability and marketing of the creedmoor made the x47 and the 260 obsolete not the actual performance.
The plus for me of the x47 is the fact it loves varget and so does my 6br so I can keep a chargemaster loaded up with varget.
I suppose irrelevant was a poor choice of words. I dont shoot PRS, just paper, and not very far by todays standards. Barrel life, accuracy and lower recoil are key factors for me. I dont mind shooting smaller bullets, if I want to go bigger I can break the ol 6.5x55
I already have one and I'm building on an FN SPR action.
Lol. I'd look at other causes to your issue than the caliber.
I've had 15 or more x47L barrels from various smiths. Various blanks, button, cut rifled. They are all tack drivers. One hole with Berger 140 hybrids. Currently rocking a Keystone 26" Kreiger. I've had numerous in both x47L and 6.5cm. Both are very accurate. x47L just shoots EVERYTHING into tiny groups, super wide nodes. 6.5cm takes a little bit more effort if you ask me. Sold off all my 6.5cm bolt gun barrels. Only reason I recommend 6.5cm is if you ever plan to shoot factory ammo.
I don't disagree, I just saw nothing superior about it with the last 2 barrels I had. Bad barrels maybe, plus the cip reamers are too tight in the neck, components, factory loads at walmart, etc. 6.5 creed for me. If your poison works, stick with it.
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I have both. I shoot 130's (2915) in the x47 and 147 (2820)in the creed. Just pick one. The 47 has been a diehard up where I live for many years. There are lots of naysayers on the creed, but finally it is becoming more popular.
I will say the 6x47 makes smaller groups even when just out of a node, with tuning a load for 1 hole is possible in almost any barrel. To be honest I am more a a creed guy. 47's love berger bullets.
I have found that the idiot behind the trigger makes the most difference. If your not sending lots of rounds down range on a weekly basis, it does not matter. I have the luxury of shooting out to 1250 yards daily on 5 separate ranges. While having different calibers, it allows me to use different powders also.
I will say the 6x47 makes smaller groups even when just out of a node, with tuning a load for 1 hole is possible in almost any barrel. To be honest I am more a a creed guy. 47's love berger bullets.
I have found that the idiot behind the trigger makes the most difference. If your not sending lots of rounds down range on a weekly basis, it does not matter. I have the luxury of shooting out to 1250 yards daily on 5 separate ranges. While having different calibers, it allows me to use different powders also.
I have a Shilen match barrel on my rifle and it has sent 2300+ rounds down range so far.
My main load was with Norma 130 grain golden target bullets going 2640 fps. I know, no hot rod here, but a super stable load which shoot amazing. Over the course of about 1900 rounds i lost about 80 fps of muzzle velocity and I knew that every time I tried to step on the gas, accuracy went out the window. So when my stock of Norma 203B powder was out, I figured I would try a slightly faster powder and went for the Norma 202.
With minimal load development I was back at it, with the same bullet going 2660 fps with great accuracy and single digit ES. So I think im good to go for another 1000 or so. On a competition last week I shot a speed/accuracy stage with 4+2 rounds (had to do a mag change) at 392 meters, the group measured 48mm (just below 2") and I did it in 18,88 sek. So the rifle shoots and there is definitely a benefit with having low recoil. I was the 3:d fastest shooter on that stage (out of 55).
My main load was with Norma 130 grain golden target bullets going 2640 fps. I know, no hot rod here, but a super stable load which shoot amazing. Over the course of about 1900 rounds i lost about 80 fps of muzzle velocity and I knew that every time I tried to step on the gas, accuracy went out the window. So when my stock of Norma 203B powder was out, I figured I would try a slightly faster powder and went for the Norma 202.
With minimal load development I was back at it, with the same bullet going 2660 fps with great accuracy and single digit ES. So I think im good to go for another 1000 or so. On a competition last week I shot a speed/accuracy stage with 4+2 rounds (had to do a mag change) at 392 meters, the group measured 48mm (just below 2") and I did it in 18,88 sek. So the rifle shoots and there is definitely a benefit with having low recoil. I was the 3:d fastest shooter on that stage (out of 55).
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6 varget ~1700 barrel life<---barrel burner I usually run thru 8# of powder then rebarrel.
6.5 H4350/varget~2500 barrel life
I will note that tons of guys went to the 6 creed running 4831sc for an easy tune. The 6x47L groups are always small, but a bit harder to tune especially with 105 bergers.
There is no magic caliber, both of these are very good, but its the nut behind the gun who makes consistent small groups.
6.5 H4350/varget~2500 barrel life
I will note that tons of guys went to the 6 creed running 4831sc for an easy tune. The 6x47L groups are always small, but a bit harder to tune especially with 105 bergers.
There is no magic caliber, both of these are very good, but its the nut behind the gun who makes consistent small groups.
Are you going 6.5 or 6 ?
35-37gr varget with 140s and 6.5x47 start low and work up if course ymmv. can probably push higher but I see no need just harder on brass and barrel.
Edit hodgdon site shows much lower varget the above is what works in my application so proceed with caution.
Edit hodgdon site shows much lower varget the above is what works in my application so proceed with caution.
I guess the real question is whether you're wanting to be a member of the herd or if you're actually trying to pick a cal based on requirements relative to what you're doing. If the thought that most guys are going creedmore is more important than by all means, herd up and go with them. If you're actually shooting than pick what works best for you. If you load your own the 47 is a lot more forgiving and has a wider range of powder and bullets available for great accuracy. Seating depths and other "minor" details seem less critical with the 47. Of course you can work up loads for your rifle with the creedmore too as a handloader but it seems to be a bit more work. To answer your original question - yes, the 47 is still very relevant. Lapua still makes brass and loaded ammo. No you can't buy it at walmart which seems to be the herd standard of relevance but then again.....why be part of the herd?
Frank
Frank
All my 6.5x47 that uses varget were somewhere 37-37.5 pretty much like majority of x47 shooters
If the 70-80fps gains will put you in the winners circle, by all means go creed. If you want to learn to shoot well, and for the most part have some easy reloading with the potential to make small changes and see gains, go X47.
I liked the 130gr Norma in a 6.5x47, it'll take you to 1500 yards on all but the windiest days. I also have to disagree with an above poster who said there are more powder selections for the x47, being less capacity, slower powders than (H4350 range), really wont work in the 6.5 version.
I liked the 130gr Norma in a 6.5x47, it'll take you to 1500 yards on all but the windiest days. I also have to disagree with an above poster who said there are more powder selections for the x47, being less capacity, slower powders than (H4350 range), really wont work in the 6.5 version.
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In fact, I don't even know why there is a 6.5X47. The Creedmoor has a frogshair edge, but they're almost the same. The smaller case capacity makes it a much better 6mm. Technically a 6x47 is a wildcat, but necking down is hardly a pain.
I use H4350, and have had much better results than with Varget.
In a pistol class of 20 guys and 19 Glocks, Im the guy with an HK....probably DA/SA......most likely in 357 Sig. Im pretty much anti herd. Not saying Glock guys are wrong, or 6.5CM guys for that matter. Like you said, some guys make those choices based on merit, others because they know a name. I dont know of many people who didnt pick the x47 based on merit alone. I digress.
No matter what you shoot there are going to haters saying you shoot Gay Tiger, or Bi Rhino, or Xtreme Cunt. Roll with it. Figure out what you want, look at the data and choose.
Yeah, really just competing against myself. Load selected will likely be the most accurate regardless of how fast its going.
I do have more Varget than anything but H4350 is a close second as Ive tried to standardize my hunting loads with it.
Just had a 6.5x47 barreled this year for some team matches - more LR shots and wanted a heavier bullet to see misses better. Really surprised at the ease of accuracy in this cartridge. Literally put my friends load in and under 1/2".
In 3 team matches we have a 4th, 6th and 2nd.
Ive shot the 6x47 for 5 years and during that time have several top finishes including a 2nd place at snipers hide cup. My transgression after the 6x47 was to 6.5GWI, then 6BRX, and now 6BR/6.5X47.
If I had it all over to do again and wanted best of barrel life and accuracy, I would do 6.5x47 with 123's or 130's and nvr change. If I didn't care about barrel life, I wish I nvr stopped shooting the 6x47
Regards,
DT
In 3 team matches we have a 4th, 6th and 2nd.
Ive shot the 6x47 for 5 years and during that time have several top finishes including a 2nd place at snipers hide cup. My transgression after the 6x47 was to 6.5GWI, then 6BRX, and now 6BR/6.5X47.
If I had it all over to do again and wanted best of barrel life and accuracy, I would do 6.5x47 with 123's or 130's and nvr change. If I didn't care about barrel life, I wish I nvr stopped shooting the 6x47
Regards,
DT
Nice paint job on that chassis
I run a 6.5X47, buddy has a 6.5 Creed, another buddy that had a 260... all have their perks.
When I built, I narrowed it down to a 6.5 Creed or a 6.5X47; I chose the 6.5X47 over the Creed due to Lapua brass and reports of easy reloading. When it is time for another barrel at the end of this summer, I will still go with a 6.5X47 purely due to the easy of reloading and accuracy I have seen from it. Seems like whatever I feed it, it shoots it, and shoots it well.... keep in mind, I am not that great of a shot. As long as one reloads, in all honesty, either is going to be a phenomenal choice.
When I built, I narrowed it down to a 6.5 Creed or a 6.5X47; I chose the 6.5X47 over the Creed due to Lapua brass and reports of easy reloading. When it is time for another barrel at the end of this summer, I will still go with a 6.5X47 purely due to the easy of reloading and accuracy I have seen from it. Seems like whatever I feed it, it shoots it, and shoots it well.... keep in mind, I am not that great of a shot. As long as one reloads, in all honesty, either is going to be a phenomenal choice.
Mang! Keep the lights off..you only making it harder for us to get them components..specially us hawaiian lol
I have friends running H4350 with the 142gr Matchkings and doing very well. Never tried it myself. Found a load with RL17 that my rifle likes and haven't run anything else. Been running RL15 with the little bullets (120-123gr SMK) and that works really well too.
Frank
Frank
I used to use Reloader quite a bit but switched to the H powders for better temp stability in my hunting rifles. Im not opposed to using a Reloader powder again for a specific rifle but would make more sense to just find a load using the powders I have on hand in bulk
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hello everyone,
I will be so curious to know your opinion regarding the 6.5x47L for the PRS 2024 matches. I love this caliber so much.
I have a straight 6BR that shoots 108 eld and I think I will also make a 6.5x47L for competitions using the berger 153.5 or 156.
I will be so curious to know your opinion regarding the 6.5x47L for the PRS 2024 matches. I love this caliber so much.
I have a straight 6BR that shoots 108 eld and I think I will also make a 6.5x47L for competitions using the berger 153.5 or 156.
