6.5x47L load developement

[CSS]

I have a Defiance single shot action with a31" Broughton 8.5 twist.
I've only tried Berger 140gr BT M LR(2.870" OAL) and Fed 205M primers.
Builder said use H-4350 and I have a new 8lb jug.
I only have regular access to a 100yd range. I will be shooting matches out to 500yds

Started at 41grs, .005 off lands, bumped up in .03 increments to 43.1 and shot 5 shot groups over the chronograph.
I was getting 30-50 fps spreads until 42.8. There I got a 14fps spread and a .376"group. The average speed 3k.

Everything from 42.5 down was running around 1/2-5/8" groups.

Went back with once fired brass, necksized only and loaded 5 each of 42.4 to 43gr in .01gr lots.

At 42.6 ES was 21fps(.366")at 42.7 ES was 14fps(.236"group)

Loaded up 25 today at 42.7gr and got several <.375" groups, but bolt lift is starting to get stiff and Vel is avg 2995fps for 10 shots.

I know I am at the edge with the bolt lift getting stiff and velocity is way higher than I was expecting even with the 31" barrel. Primers still have a round edge and no ejector marks.


I'm just punching paper, I don't need 3K speed and I want brass and barrel to last as long as possible.

My question is, since I am getting such a large ES(30-50fps) from 41gr and up to max.
Should I run the same test from say 38 to 41gr and see if I can find a low node?

Anyone know what kind of pressure I'm getting with the 42.7gr load?
I can't believe the groups I'm getting, and could not ask for better accuracy, but as I said above, I'm doing nothing putting undue stress on everything with the 42.7gr load.

Where do you think I need to start over again at?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

I'm a fan of the 6.5x47, I have 2 of them and another one being built. I'm somewhat familiar with the round.

Couple questions....
Have your checked the length of your fired brass and compared it to your actual chamber length?
How is your chamber? How much freebore?
Have you tried to rechamber one of your pieces of fired brass? Does it chamber easily?

I'm shooting a 130 Berger VLD out of a 26" barrel at 2,902 fps with 42.2gr of H4350, Lapua brass, and CCI 450's. My ES is around 12fps and my SD is around 5fps. This is with 15 shot averages over a chrony. I'd say 42.7 may be a hotter load since your shooting a 140gr bullet, but that's really just a guess since it can vary so much from one gun to another.

In regards to your ES question.....no, I would NOT drop down to a lower charge to find a low node just because of a "starting to get stiff bolt". If the primers look normal and your not getting alot of extractor marking on your cases, I'd go with what's working.

2900 to 3000 fps is the average for the typical 6.5x47, so the speed is what it is so remove the barrel wear/tear from your thoughts. Barrels are cheap, relatively speaking since your shooting a GAP Crusader. Its a gun, made to be shot. Barrels wear out. You picked an amazing caliber to go with, but you didn't pick it for barrel life.....if that'd been your main concern you'd have bought a .308.

So, now we have brass life to look at. Like I said above, measure a piece of your once and twice fired brass to see if/how much it's growin. See if this may be what's causing your bolt lift issues. Rechamber a piece of that fired neck sized only brass (the fired empty case) and see if it chambers easily. I bet it doesn't. I bet it's too long for your chamber.

I'll take accuracy and speed over extended brass life any day. If your shooting a 140 at 3000fps +/-, and getting ES's below 20fps for 10 shots, combined with great accuracy.....I'd stop looking for a "fix" and be happy with the end result and work around it. If that means FL resizing and trimming cases, that's what I'd do.

***its 2am and I've been up for 18hrs so keep that in mind if anything I've said is totally off the wall.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

You are running way too much H4350 in there for a 140gr bullet. Maybe you could get that much in there for a 123gr bullet, but not 140 or even 130gr.

If you are only running out to 500, it goesn't really matter what bullet you use. 123gr would probably be the best if you want to run it fast and flat. 140gr would only be recommended if you are shooting past 1000. I think 123gr is best out to around 600, 130gr from 600 to 1000 and 140gr past 1000.

So if this were me, I would start with the 123gr Amax or SMK and use the H4350 starting at 39.0grs, working up 0.5grs until you see pressure signs. Then back off 0.3grs and shoot a 500yd ladder test in test 0.3gr intervals.

If you really want to stick with the 140gr Berger LR-BT (and don't get me wrong, its a great bullet - I have used it extensively and its super accurate), I would start at 37.0 and work up pressure test in 0.5gr intervals until you see pressure. Then again back off 0.3gr and shoot the same 500yd ladder.

Like Trevor said, don't worry about barrel life. I would worry about brass life however. Putting 42.7gr in there is going to shorten brass life considerably. For only 500yds, you don't need to set the world on fire with speed - you need it to be more precise instead.

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Thanks for the replys.
First let me say, I am not one that usually loads anything to the max.
I was working up in .3gr increments with new brass.
At 43.1 was the first sign of stiff bolt lift.
The second range trip working up in .1gr increments with once fired brass, no sign of pressure.
On this second range trip is where I got the excellent groups and low ES.
When I went back the last time with the group of 25 all loaded in once fired brass at 42.7 was the first time I noticed the stiff bolt lift. Not extreme, just enough to notice.

As with any other gun I have worked up loads for, I am usually well under max pressure.

The reason I went with the 140's in this and my Creedmoor, is I want one load for anywhere I shoot. I will hopefully be able to get to a few of the 1,000yd matches that are a few hours south of me.

Another poster has ran the numbers in quickload and sent me the data. It is on the high side.

I'm away from home for a few days so I will check the brass length in a few days.

I plan to back down and start over again looking for the low ES/SD. I know where the pressure max is or close to it anyway.

Barrel and brass life is not a concern, but my fingers and eyes are. I would be happy with a 2600fps load that shoots with 14ES and <.5" groups.

Thanks again.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Did you run an expander ball through the neck before loading? My experience has been virgin brass that has not had an expander ball run through the neck will yield velocities 60-80 FPS faster than once fired or necks that have been opened up. I agree with JamesBailey regarding too much H4350. If velocity is your goal you should have gone with a .260 Remington. I have worked on loads for the 130 Berger but in the end I shoot the 123 Scenar. While I lose .1 Mil in the wind, my elevation is better.

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

As stated above, veloicity is not a concern.
I bought the rifle used, I did not have it built.
If I was going to have another 6.5 built it would be another Creedmoor.

I did run all the brass through a Redding neck sizer with the expander ball that measures .261"

I'm sticking with the 140 bergers and the 139 lapua's for the higher BC.

I could not get the lighter bullets to shoot near as well in either of the Creedmoors I have.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Didn't intend to stir you up. It took a little work but I got the 123's to shoot real good. The Berger 130's have a G7 BC of .282 while the Lapua G7 BC is .263. With that said and the velocities I'm able to achieve with both, I chose the 123 over the 130 even though the 130 had a higher BC. Good luck.

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Didn't intend to be short, sorry. Posted in a hurry.
I gave up on the 123's after a full box.
First load with 139's was very good so I stuck with them.
I appreciate any advice.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

When I got my 6.5x47 back from Jon Beanland, he told me he was pushing 130 Berger's with 42 gr of H4350. I looked at that in QuickLoad and all I could think was HOLY SHIT. At that time I didn't have any H4350 just RE15 and Varget. I went to the range with 123 Lapua's and 130 Berger's loaded with RE15. I was using 2.750 OAL for both and the 123's had good velocity with 37.4 gr but were not grouping. The 130's were grouping and velocity was acceptable. This was on a Wednesday and I had a match on Saturday. I had a group with 130's at 37.2 gr that was one hole so I went with that. Took 5 shots velocity average and shot good to 525 yds. One note, I used all virgin brass for the match to stay as close to the original test as possible. I did find out later that RE15 and higher temperature was not going to work for the 130's. I went back to work on the 123's and worked with seating depth and found a sweet spot. My gun likes the 130's @ 2.093 (measured with a comparator) and the 123's @ 2.163. Given that RE15 is somewhat temperature sensitive, I have started working with IMR 8208XBR and it showed some promise with the 130 and I still need to get to the range with the 123's. I would recommend working up some lighter loads and find that node the barrel likes and work with the seating depth after that to fine tune it. In the end you may not get all the velocity you want or need to make the higher BC bullet beneficial. Hope this helps.

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Had a few minutes so I went back to my notes and picked a load and one just under it to try. Ran to the range and got chrono readings, re zeroed for 100yds and call it good.
Had an ES of 19 with average vel. of 2906fps with 41.3 gr H4350, no sign of pressure, easy bolt lift.

Showed up at the match today, new rifle I've had for 10 days. Dope for 100 to 510yds came from Shooter program on my phone.
Wind blowing at 10 with gust to 20-25 and all different directions.
Shot 125x125 off the bench. Needless to say I will not be changing anything.

Didn't do to bad with my GAP Creedmoor prone either.
It's been a good day.
Now if Alabama beats MSU and Auburn keeps falling behing GA. it will be a perfect evening.










Just kidding about AU loosing, but it looks bad right now.

 

[BGE541]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Id try 123's again but run it with RL 17. Seating depth sould start with .10 off. You said your working up in .03 gr steps? Im guessing typo cause on my X47 I went with .3 gr steps. Have fun!

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Yep, typo, thanks.

After the way it shot today, I see no reason to change anything.
The heavies beat the wind better I think and are moving along at a decent speed, why change?

Go to the Tac Comp section and look at my scores for today. It's labeled 11-12-11 BGTC prec rifle match results.

The 125 bench I shot was with the above 6.5x47, you can't ask for any better.
The 97 prone was with a 6.5 CM shooting 139 Lapuas

With the gusting wind and changing direction, I think the heavier bullet helped.
Compare my scores to the others, there were other 6.5L's and CM's on the line today, most shoot the lighter bullets best I remember.

I not a great shooter by any stretch, especially in this game. Today was my 3rd match of this type ever.

But I have been shooting "other" matches for several years.

Please don't take the above as being "cocky", that's not me. I just don't see any reason to change.

ATB..

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

So, just for a recap.....
You ended up getting 2,906 fps with the 140's over 41.3gr of 4350? That's really good, even with the 31" barrel. I'm getting 2,902 fps, but with the 130's over 42.2gr of 4350 out of a 26" barrel. Your shooting ~1gr less than me, but pushing a 10gr heavier bullet at almost the same speeds. I didn't think the extra barrel length would add that much velocity from 26" to 31".

 

[CSS]

Re: 6.5x47L load developement

Correct.