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6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Steelhead

Steelhead

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 26, 2003
759
114
Idaho
Maybe this has been discussed already, but I could not find anything on it.

I've been thinking about having one of these new 6mm's built and then I got to thinking about whether or not they would make a viable "sniper" round. And by that I mean that they would do everything that a .308 is capable of doing. I'm talking strickly performance wise, I'm not really looking for "we use .308 because there's more of it in the supply chain and it would take a lot of money to switch to a different caliber".

What I'm interested in is how do the 6mm bullets perform against hard and soft targets? It would seem that the 6mm's win in the trajectory department, managing to run with the 300WM in that department, but they lack in barrel life compared to the .308.

Any thoughts?

Another question, if you had to go to war and you had to choose between taking your .308 or a 6mm, which would you take? Ammo would not be a problem as there would be plenty of it for either.

 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

I think that the 6mm would be flatter trajectory than the .308 but I'd rather be shooting a 175gr bullet out of a .30 cal at a rag head instead of a 6mm. I'm not sayin it wouldn't drop a dune coon in his tracks but I would feel better about it with my .308. Yea it's not as "flat shooting" but that's what the big knob on the scope is for!
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



if you had to go to war and you had to choose between taking your .308 or a 6mm, which would you take? Ammo would not be a problem as there would be plenty of it for either.</div></div>

.308 because I know, it works in the field. Were are you getting specialty ammo for a 6mm to punch, lite, ect?
6mm Navy is not on the shelf anywhere that I know of.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



if you had to go to war and you had to choose between taking your .308 or a 6mm, which would you take? Ammo would not be a problem as there would be plenty of it for either.</div></div>

.308 because I know, it works in the field. Were are you getting specialty ammo for a 6mm to punch, lite, ect?
6mm Navy is not on the shelf anywhere that I know of. </div></div>

Well, lets say that specialty rounds for the 6mm are just as plentiful as they are for 5.56 and 7.62. Would that change your mind?
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

You put that 6mm in my M-4 or MK-12 and I'LL take it! Put it in a bolt gun and it can stay home.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, lets say that specialty rounds for the 6mm are just as plentiful as they are for 5.56 and 7.62. Would that change your mind? </div></div>

No, because I've seen a 6mm Remington on a battlefield, an was not impressed with it. The question I have is why should we change something that works, is in place, supported everywhere, for a step backwards?

I'll be the first to admit, it's not what you hit them with, but where you hit them at, is a very good rule,.... but first you have to hit them, and <span style="font-weight: bold">They </span> are not standing still, paper or steel targets. Plus they have the ability to shoot back.
The 6mm over a 5.56 yes, not a 7.62x51, an never over a A191(300wm)

 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You put that 6mm in my M-4 or MK-12 and I'LL take it! Put it in a bolt gun and it can stay home.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Doc,

I had similar thoughts.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question I have is why should we change something that works, is in place, supported everywhere, for a step backwards?


</div></div>

That's basically what I'm looking for, would it be a step backwards? I kind of figured it would be, but I wanted to see what people who know more than I do would say. I was also curious if the 6mm will only be good for competition and never be considered as a serious "sniper" round.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

He He He,

I am with you one on that one. I would not volunteer.
Nor would I for a 105 AMAX or Berger.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>

I will volunteer, Rob. Work has been shitty. WTF. Why not. I would prefer if you let me choose the trigger puller, it wont be you, my friend.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>

Well, remember I asked about hard targets too. Do you think the 6mm would do as well against hard targets?
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

I would venture as well as a .308 although neither would be my choice for a hard target. And really what hard targets are you going to be shooting? It's all pretty hypothetical correct?

I used the .243 for about a year and a half in sniper matches and it never let me down and helped me take home a good deal of prizes. Paid for itself a couple of times over.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

I've dropped a lot of deer in there tracks with a .243, and don't seem to have that with the .308 as much.

What I will say is this. I've shot a lot of prairie dogs with both, and the .243 tends to explode the receiver a lot more. 107SMK vs 168SMK.

Shooting at say a vehicle and or similar, have to go .308. The .308 knocks steel silhouette targets back a lot further.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The question I have is why should we change something that works, is in place, supported everywhere, for a step backwards?


</div></div>

That's basically what I'm looking for, would it be a step backwards? I kind of figured it would be, but I wanted to see what people who know more than I do would say. I was also curious if the 6mm will only be good for competition and never be considered as a serious "sniper" round.

Thanks for the feedback! </div></div>

Anything can be used for that, (its more operator an training) but when your talking funding a Military system, many things come into play.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

interesting thread, I shoot the 6cm anf 6 cx from Tubb rifles and there is no waty in hell I would consider standing 1k away and taking one. accuracy is great
if I were looking at stay 1 k away 30 WM
then 6 cm then 308 any closer 308?
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Just remember gents it's not the performance of the cartridge it's the terminal performance of the boolet. If this is truly a military setting you will at BEST be driving a SMK, more than likely an FMJ. I have always and continue to be of the mind set that say the bigger rock you can hit them with the better the odds that they won't get back up.

That's why I drive 210's out of my 30-06 faster than I do 175's out of my 308.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

At 1000 yds.
.243 = 1527 fps and 543 ft. lb. (105 A-max @ 3150)
.308 = 1302 fps and 659 ft. lb. (175 SMK @ 2750)

I wouldn't want to get hit with either one of them.
Just sent off a PSS in .308 to be rebarreled to 6mm Dasher. Still have a trusty .308 but hey 6mm is fun.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>

+1 Set up correctly, the 243Win is downright wicked!!!!!
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Given the 243 has an expanding bullet driven quickly, the edge will be the 243. But then again give a 308 a good bullet pushed hard and you may yield similar results.

Bottom line is choose the one you have the most ammo or reloading components for and PRACTICE!!!

I'm building a 243 win ackley improved to shoot 70gr sierra blitzkings that should be devasting on varmints and get me out there pretty good too.

Ern
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

"Certain" units in the British Army have played around with the .243win in a snipers role, but I believe itwas at least in part because they didn't want to leave tell-tale 5.56mm or 7.62mm holes in the bad guys!

Also for certain operations they took part in, travelling/posing as a civvie deer stalker with a civvie looking "hunting rifle" in the very popular and common .243win would have made a lot of sense...
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just remember gents it's not the performance of the cartridge it's the terminal performance of the boolet. </div></div>

And shot placement. Hit anyone in the head or heart and lungs with any round in this whole discussion and it's going to ruin their day.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

I am absolutely sold on the 6mm, specifically in 243WIN.

I shot 308 for years, and thought it was the end all, be all. I bought a clearance 243 to have it rechambered in 308, and figured that i would shoot it a few times first. I was stunned at what this did out of the box. I did some load work and the groups kept getting tighter. So then i sent it off for a new barrel and laid it out in a McMillian stock and holy crap. The first time i shot it at 1000yds, i was on the line with a few other calibers, such as 308 and, 243AI and something else. I shot as good as anyone else. And I did not have as much elevation or windage either.

Plus, EVERYONE sells 243 ammo. Reloading can be cheaper because of the amount of powder and the smaller bullets.

308 is a damn fine round, but for me 243 wins the prize.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Has anyone done any testing to see how well any of the 6mm's penetrate glass and other building materials as compared to the .308?
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Come on Guys, Speed Kills, Speed Kills say it 1000 times.

Other than the obvious that its not an military inventory item.

a 243, 6xc, 6mmRem, 6mm Crusader will smoke a 308.
It has 200 Fp Energy at 1000 over the 308. Bigger is not better.

Go shoot an varmit Coyote, Badger, Woodchuck or whatever with a 308 - 175 and then a 243 - 115 at whatever range you want and then think again.


Our guys are stuck with 308 because of NATO not because it kicks ass.



Quote:

"The 308 should be illegal to shoot past 600 yards"

Shannon Kay, USA, Ranger, Sniper Instructor
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

.243 Win + .243 AI Cartridge Guide
High-Velocity 6mm for Long-Range, Varminting, and Tactical Use


[url="http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/gardnershcx350.jpg"]http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/gardnershcx350.jpg[/url][img]

[url="http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html"]http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html[/url]

my 2¢
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>

Well, remember I asked about hard targets too. Do you think the 6mm would do as well against hard targets? </div></div>

Define Hard Targets.

Both would suck on any real "hard" target. Thats what 50's are artillary are for.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GUNNER75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've dropped a lot of deer in there tracks with a .243, and don't seem to have that with the .308 as much.

What I will say is this. I've shot a lot of prairie dogs with both, and the .243 tends to explode the receiver a lot more. 107SMK vs 168SMK.

Shooting at say a vehicle and or similar, have to go .308. The .308 knocks steel silhouette targets back a lot further. </div></div>

Yes the 308 has more Inertia, ability to knock down steel.



"SPEED KILLS"!!!!!!!!


But ask any range officer or match director which one fucks a steel target up worse. the 308 or the 243.

the 243 and 22-250 will damn near cut a hole in AR500 up close a 308 does not do anything to it.

 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Fortunately I started off shooting 6.5's then later 6's for long range.I got spoiled!I had bought some bolt and semi auto 308's over the years and was disappointed with lackluster performance.Seems like I'd have to hold off nearly twice as much to hit steel targets in the wind.So I would end up missing alot more than I was used to.

As far as being in a war with 308 or 6mm with plenty of available ammo. From my perspective I'd pick 6mm.

Less weight to carry,recoils less and faster to acquire target for follow shots,Drops less,blows in the wind less.Lots of energy left at distance.If I had my choice I'd have a 6x47Lapua sending 115's at 3100fps and would almost feel sorry for the enemy.

Steve

 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steelhead</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone want to volunteer to stand at 1000 yards and take a 115 DTAC in the chest or head? Probably wouldn't hurt or even break the skin right? Even though it has more ft/lbs of energy than the 175 from a .308(3000fps 115 651 ft/lbs at 1000/ 2650fps 175 586 ft/lbs) and the same trajectory as a 300WM( 115 is 7.2mils vs 10.8 mils for 175 to 1000). .243 with the right bullet is not a bad little round
wink.gif
</div></div>

Well, remember I asked about hard targets too. Do you think the 6mm would do as well against hard targets? </div></div>

Define Hard Targets.

Both would suck on any real "hard" target. Thats what 50's are artillary are for. </div></div>

I worded this wrong. I meant to ask how would the 6mm's do if they first had to pennetrate a window or wall before hitting the intended target? What about tree branches, high weeds, etc? My only experience is with .223, .308 and .338. When shooting through tall grass, for example, I've seen .223 get totally off course because it hit a piece of tall grass, where as the .308 and .338's are a lot less effected by this. I know the 6mm's have more mass, so in theory should not be effect as much, but are they as good as the .30 calibers at this?

I guess I should just order a 6mm from you and test it out for myself.
grin.gif
(part of me is waiting to see what happens with the GAP cartridge you are working on)
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.243 Win + .243 AI Cartridge Guide
High-Velocity 6mm for Long-Range, Varminting, and Tactical Use


[url="http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/gardnershcx350.jpg"]http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/gardnershcx350.jpg[/url][img]

[url="http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html"]http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html[/url]

my 2¢ </div></div>

Thanks, that was very informative!
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

The 6mm is better because you can shoot it more which will let you develope skills and become more proficient with the weapon. Its less punishing. At some point we become sensitive to recoil which will occur sooner with a 308 than with a 6mm because the 6mm recoils less. It ain't no more complicated than 'nat! Get the 6mm and shoot it alot. You'll be glad you did.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Will a standard remington 700 sps varmint in .243 shoot the heavy bullets?
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

I can't speak for goin to war, but there's a pack of boys in north Louisiana that are starting to make a habbit of kickin @$$ on the shooting line with their 6XC's.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

For tactical comps, plinking, playing and plain ole fun, the 6XC or .243 is hard as hell to beat. I have a 6XC and can tell you this, it's bad ass accurate and drives tacks. The other boyz from N. Louisiana got me on it and I'm glad they did.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will a standard remington 700 sps varmint in .243 shoot the heavy bullets? </div></div>

It has a 9 twist so the 115s are out but it will shoot the Hornady 105 AMAX very well and that will get you to 1000 without a problem.
 
Re: 6mm a viable "sniper" round?

Thanks for the info. I am assuming that most factory tubes are going to come with the 9" twist. Correct?

The sps varmint also comes with a 26" tube, is that too long to keep it efficient? Or just use slower burning powders?

thanks
 
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