I am looking to build a 6mm long range predator rifle for Western states but want it to have a 20 inch barrel because I have a suppressor and want overall length under 30. I am just starting to reload so 243 make me feel comfortable because it's so established. Is there anything else I should be looking for
- Thread starter Pcola
- Start date
243 with 87 GR Vmax is a yote hammer! Otherwise the 105-110 class projectiles will kill them just as dead.
What is your definition of "long range?"
That's gonna be a big factor for helping you figure out your question.
That's gonna be a big factor for helping you figure out your question.
When building a rifle I decide on bullet weight first so my chamber can be cut for that weight. This will allow you to get the bullet to the lands. If 107 you may not be able to get a 70 to reach the lands, I went with a 70gr build and a twist to optimize the lighter bullets. I can shot up to 80gr but not the 100 range bullets.
I built a 6x47 Lapua but that requires neck sizing so you may not want that. Obviously the 243 is great. Whatever you pick make sure you can get quality brass.
I built a 6x47 Lapua but that requires neck sizing so you may not want that. Obviously the 243 is great. Whatever you pick make sure you can get quality brass.
So true. Got a buddy who hunts yotes in eastern WA with 28 Nosler and 195 Bergers. I think 1500 or 1600 is the longest kill I've seen from his videos, pretty sure he's gonna get that 1 mile kill sometime this year.
6x47L has ready made brass available now through Peterson if that might sway your decision.
I know from experience that Lapua brass is super strong stuff! Experimenting with R17 I was able to crank 95gr SMK's to 3500 fps in a 28" barrel before the bolt got sticky, the primers were just getting flat, and the brass still held a primer. I wouldn't suggest anyone try this though as pressures must have been super high. 3300 fps the pressure signs on the brass were normal.
I played with Sierra's 90gr TMK in my 6mmBR and the high node in a 26" was 3196. That bullet would be a great consideration for yotes and normal long range and could be cranked out 200 fps faster in a bigger cartridge.
I know from experience that Lapua brass is super strong stuff! Experimenting with R17 I was able to crank 95gr SMK's to 3500 fps in a 28" barrel before the bolt got sticky, the primers were just getting flat, and the brass still held a primer. I wouldn't suggest anyone try this though as pressures must have been super high. 3300 fps the pressure signs on the brass were normal.
I played with Sierra's 90gr TMK in my 6mmBR and the high node in a 26" was 3196. That bullet would be a great consideration for yotes and normal long range and could be cranked out 200 fps faster in a bigger cartridge.
Just about any of the larger 6mm cartridges will work just fine. I know a few guys running 243's, 243AI, 6xc, 6creed, 6SLR, 6x47L, etc. They all work with correct bullet.
You really need to tell us what "long range" is though to you. I will say that most bullets don't open up consistently past 600yds on coyotes, because of their thinner skin and bone structure. Inside 600yds you'll do great. I've been running the 105 Berger Hunting VLD for coyotes in a 6SLR and it's a decent bullet.
Another question is; are you saving the hides for resale or are you just putting holes in them? If you're just putting holes in them then the sky is the limit on what bullet you want to sling at them. If you're looking for a "fur" bullet then the choices decrease.
Steve123, might be on the right track with the 90grn Sierra TGK, they make a 95g TMK also. I've shot the 77 TMK out of a 22-243 and it's a wicked hard hitting round for coyotes. 3500FPS is easily achieved. I know a couple of guys who love the 69grn TMK out of their 223.
xdeano
You really need to tell us what "long range" is though to you. I will say that most bullets don't open up consistently past 600yds on coyotes, because of their thinner skin and bone structure. Inside 600yds you'll do great. I've been running the 105 Berger Hunting VLD for coyotes in a 6SLR and it's a decent bullet.
Another question is; are you saving the hides for resale or are you just putting holes in them? If you're just putting holes in them then the sky is the limit on what bullet you want to sling at them. If you're looking for a "fur" bullet then the choices decrease.
Steve123, might be on the right track with the 90grn Sierra TGK, they make a 95g TMK also. I've shot the 77 TMK out of a 22-243 and it's a wicked hard hitting round for coyotes. 3500FPS is easily achieved. I know a couple of guys who love the 69grn TMK out of their 223.
xdeano
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^^^Pick xdeano's brain a little. He helped me out a ton with this a few years ago on accurate shooter. What he said was dead on. I think he's killed a semi side dumper load full of coyotes with a 6mm, maybe more.
I did alot of research, and about the only way to get some of the shorter bullets to get close to the lands is to have a reamer reground to shorten the freebore. I hunt at night and with using my Halo LR thermal, I can easily take 400-500yd shots and I felt needing a bit more oomph was necessary. Right now I'm using a 6x45 (6mm223) and am looking to get about 400-500fps for the long shots. Reamer shows up in a week and will be putting it together.
Fyi, my buddy runs a .243 with 16" barrel and was right at 3750fps with 58 grain vmaxes. I'm hoping I can get 65vmaxes at 3500.
Good luck, best thing is to decide on your ranges and pick bullets and build around that first
Fyi, my buddy runs a .243 with 16" barrel and was right at 3750fps with 58 grain vmaxes. I'm hoping I can get 65vmaxes at 3500.
Good luck, best thing is to decide on your ranges and pick bullets and build around that first
I would like to run 80-90 grains ideally
I would like to be 80-90 grain bullets
400 yards I have seen mountain lions while calling and just want something that if that chance comes again I can even hammer one at that distance
What twist rate should I be looking at for 80-90 grain bullets?
That was wrong of me not to post desired distance I feel comfortable shooting out to 400-500 hopefully hit that 600 comfortably. And I would like to save pelts especially because in the hills I hunt there are all types of cats but for coyotes I could care less I am just trying to become as proficient as possible on small game to make large game shots easier.
If youre going to run the 80-90 grn bullets and want to save hides, I had really good luck with;
Sierra 85grn spt flat base
Sierra 85grn hpbt
Hornady 87grn hpbt
The 90grn bergers blew huge holes.
You might want to try the sierra 90grn tmk. I have not tried this projectile so I cant tell you how it'll perform.
Smk usually fare pretty well also, but can have a tendency to pencil through.
Id Stearns you away from a vmax because they can have a tendency to splash at close range and high velocities. I'd push you towards a nosler as they have thicker jackets and a thicker base. Better bullet.
Again the sky is the limit. If you want to try a copper bullet hit up lehigh defense for a 62grn controlled chaos.
If you want to blow big holes there are bullets for that also. This time of year "not prime" just go load up a bunch of different bullets and go try them out. Youre not out any. Heck I'll be trying out the Atips here pretty quick if I ever get a moment to load them. Ive had others tell me they do very well on Coyotes also, quarter sized exits.
Xdeano
Thank you for the advice I am excited to learn this and start taking further shots I generally hunt them with shotguns and hunt deer with rifles.
Cats are a whole different deal. They have super thin skin and will blow up easy.
4-600 is doable with the bullets that I mentioned above.
I typically like to go up to that 105 range to get a slight ballistic advantage, but you'll do fine.
For 80-90 you'll get away with a 9 twist.
95-105 you'll need an 8 twist.
Another bullet you might try is a Berger 88grn flat base varmint. I like boat tails for the bc but the flat base design seems to have better fur saving for some reason.
Xdeano
4-600 is doable with the bullets that I mentioned above.
I typically like to go up to that 105 range to get a slight ballistic advantage, but you'll do fine.
For 80-90 you'll get away with a 9 twist.
95-105 you'll need an 8 twist.
Another bullet you might try is a Berger 88grn flat base varmint. I like boat tails for the bc but the flat base design seems to have better fur saving for some reason.
Xdeano
What range of bullets should I look at with a 1/10 twist rate?
You'll be fine with that 80-90 range. I was just giving you a cousion of error. Youre better overstabilizing a bit.
I was shooting the 80-90 in a 9.5t. But 10 should do ya.
I know for sure that if you go to the 95 bergers that you'll need a 9. I tried them in my 9.5 and they didnt work. They shot great in my 8 twist though.
Another bullet that I had good luck saving coyote hides was the 100grn Hornady spire point bt. They work great in factory gun and they worked well on deer.
Xdeano
I was shooting the 80-90 in a 9.5t. But 10 should do ya.
I know for sure that if you go to the 95 bergers that you'll need a 9. I tried them in my 9.5 and they didnt work. They shot great in my 8 twist though.
Another bullet that I had good luck saving coyote hides was the 100grn Hornady spire point bt. They work great in factory gun and they worked well on deer.
Xdeano
Awesome my uncle has a Tikka 243 I was thinking of building off of it has 5 rounds through it and my cousin didn't like it.
I recently had a 6 creedmoor barrel spun up with a .109 freebore reamer and a 7 twist to shoot 110smk for coyote hunting. Just for shits I tried Some 90gr tgk and was very accurate with insane velocity. Ran them up to 3550fps and found my max charge. Backed them off to 3440fps out of a 26” barrel. Hoping to see what they do to coyotes this weekend.
Berger Varmint Bullets 88gr.
www.midwayusa.com Hornady VMax 87 gr.
I'm shooting the Bergers 6br w/ 31.0gVarget 2989fps, sd=2 For me, they hoot a tad better than the 87gr Hornady's
Some of match/target bullets will require follow-up shots, I avoid them.
Berger Varmint Bullets 243 Cal, 6mm (243 Diameter) 88 Grain Hollow
Berger Varmint Bullets were designed specifically for the varmint hunter looking for an accurate bullet that will deliver extreme accuracy, consistent...
www.midwayusa.com I'm shooting the Bergers 6br w/ 31.0gVarget 2989fps, sd=2 For me, they hoot a tad better than the 87gr Hornady's
Some of match/target bullets will require follow-up shots, I avoid them.
The 58gr and 87gr vmax are potent out of a 6 creed for yotes, i heard that some of these predator competition guys have been trying out the 6mm saum and they are basically zero holding for stupid distances, i dont know anything about the saum variant , but a 115 at 3300 or faster is insane! Especially when your pressed for making a shot
looks like a nice set up. specs?
xdeano
xdeano
Thank youBerger Varmint Bullets 88gr.
Hornady VMax 87 gr.Berger Varmint Bullets 243 Cal, 6mm (243 Diameter) 88 Grain Hollow
Berger Varmint Bullets were designed specifically for the varmint hunter looking for an accurate bullet that will deliver extreme accuracy, consistent...
I'm shooting the Bergers 6br w/ 31.0gVarget 2989fps, sd=2 For me, they hoot a tad better than the 87gr Hornady's
Some of match/target bullets will require follow-up shots, I avoid them.
Awesome looking rifle!
Only thing it needs is a little paint. ?
Xdeano
Xdeano
I did up a 6mm creed with a 1:7.5 twist pushing the 105’s at 3130. Stupid accurate and a blast to shoot, coyotes don’t seem to be too fond of it 
What powder were you running? I’m considering these now and have gotten some great accuracy but at 3320fps they leave a little to be desired.
RL16
If you're shooting predators and varmints out to 600y max, I'd recommend the 6mm arc. Shorter, lighter, significantly less recoil, magazine capacity is a bonus, at least double the barrel life if not more. I have a 22" barrel and I shoot 87gr vmax at 3050 with 31gr powder and it folds coyotes and cats. There are plenty of factory ammo options available, but you may struggle to find factory loaded varmint ammo. The 105gr hornady black smokes coyotes though, and by the end of 2023, everyone will be making factory varmint ammo for it.
6 Arc really only makes sense for a semi auto. If you are going to go bolt gun, go with a BR/ BRA/ Dasher / GT.
Better brass, can be pushed hotter, more flexibility with power choices and already sized to feed out of AICS or AW mags.
Better brass, can be pushed hotter, more flexibility with power choices and already sized to feed out of AICS or AW mags.
A 6prc would be a zipper of a round. It would sling a bullet pretty quick, it is also crazy overboard and would torch a barrel in about 6-800 rounds. A barrel is roundly $360 and $500 machine work. So roughly $900/800rds= $1.12 a shot. Ouch.
Pick up a 6GT or 6SLR.
Xdeano
They are cool but really have a pretty limited application and expected barrel life sucks lol. I wanted one for a while too and then I used one in a coyote contest a couple months ago….not for me
Nice setup. 20” 6cm for me
What have you moved on to?
I still think the 6 creed is top three options for coyote hunting. I run one myself.
What are some other good options
243 is great but only if you are restricted to factory ammo. 6 creed does everything a 243 will do and more.
22 creed is a really solid option. My calling partner is running one with some really impressive results out past 500 yards.
If you are a speed guy, 243 ackley is where I would go but fireforming sucks.
My top three options would be 6creed, 22creed or 243AI. But our other contest partner is running a 6 Sherman short and it’s pretty dang accurate and he’s getting some really good speed (3900 with berger 90’s I think) but it’s a lot of recoil that really hurts on runners sometimes and barrel life is really bad. So you have to buy a couple barrels at a time. Basically my same complaints with the 6PRC. Speed is awesome but it isn’t everything. I scoped myself pretty good in the last contest we hunted and as embarrassing as it was, I did it multiple times that weekend (all on runners) sometimes there just isn’t enough time on runners to be in a perfect position and it turned me off to the chambering. Especially when we can kill coyotes out past 500 with a regular old 6 creed loaded hot
22 creed is a really solid option. My calling partner is running one with some really impressive results out past 500 yards.
If you are a speed guy, 243 ackley is where I would go but fireforming sucks.
My top three options would be 6creed, 22creed or 243AI. But our other contest partner is running a 6 Sherman short and it’s pretty dang accurate and he’s getting some really good speed (3900 with berger 90’s I think) but it’s a lot of recoil that really hurts on runners sometimes and barrel life is really bad. So you have to buy a couple barrels at a time. Basically my same complaints with the 6PRC. Speed is awesome but it isn’t everything. I scoped myself pretty good in the last contest we hunted and as embarrassing as it was, I did it multiple times that weekend (all on runners) sometimes there just isn’t enough time on runners to be in a perfect position and it turned me off to the chambering. Especially when we can kill coyotes out past 500 with a regular old 6 creed loaded hot
I think it comes down to performance expectations. What do you want from barrel life? What kind of powders and bullet do you want to run?
Long range predator hunting = High BC, relatively fast/flat bullets from where I am sitting.
Now you want to stick with a 20" barrel or so , so you can run a can, so that effects it as well. Running a short barrel you want to find a powder/bullet combination that is not just making noise and flash. You also need to think about barrel life.
Something like a 6 PRC, 6 sherman, 6XC, 243AI will all help you get more velocity out of that short barrel, but to do so is going to burn the barrel up.
Do you want a carbon or a steel barrel? Figure a hot rodded short barrel 6mm magnum, you may be lucky to get 700-800 rounds before the barrel starts going. So with carbon thats about $750 for blank and about $400 for barrel work. Are you ok with spending $1.40 every time you pull the trigger in JUST the cost of the barrel? Drop it down to steel and you are still looking $1 per trigger pull in just barrel costs.
If you do not need absolute performance, or can't afford to replace barrels as often, something like the 6 creed may be a good option. Depending on how hot you load (or shooting factory ammo around 3k fps) you can get 1000-2000 out of a barrel. There are good factory options for ammo that's not crazy expensive, but its also not cheap.
Take this next part with the caveat that I love the 6GT and think its the best all around 6mm cartridge out there. But, you can have a gun build in 6GT. There is factory ammo out there for $36 a box that puts the speed close to 6 creed. If you reload, you can download it to about 2800fps and get 2500-3000 rounds out of the barrel. You can run it hot at 2950-3K fps and get 2000 more more out of it. It will feed from mags flawlessly. Since its close to the BR family, its one of the easiest cartridges to load for. It has a wide range of powders from fast ones like varget to slower ones like H4350, making sourcing a good powder much easier. Its soft shooting and paired up with good brass (alpha) a good barrel and good bullets (berger) its a little laser beam. This would bring your cost in barrel life, even with a carbon barrel down to less than $.50 per shot, or down to $.30 with a steel barrel. Something like a 22" 6GT with a good can on the end would be my first choice, assuming I am not chasing absolute performance because that performance gets incredibly expensive for a marginal improvement in ballistics.
Long range predator hunting = High BC, relatively fast/flat bullets from where I am sitting.
Now you want to stick with a 20" barrel or so , so you can run a can, so that effects it as well. Running a short barrel you want to find a powder/bullet combination that is not just making noise and flash. You also need to think about barrel life.
Something like a 6 PRC, 6 sherman, 6XC, 243AI will all help you get more velocity out of that short barrel, but to do so is going to burn the barrel up.
Do you want a carbon or a steel barrel? Figure a hot rodded short barrel 6mm magnum, you may be lucky to get 700-800 rounds before the barrel starts going. So with carbon thats about $750 for blank and about $400 for barrel work. Are you ok with spending $1.40 every time you pull the trigger in JUST the cost of the barrel? Drop it down to steel and you are still looking $1 per trigger pull in just barrel costs.
If you do not need absolute performance, or can't afford to replace barrels as often, something like the 6 creed may be a good option. Depending on how hot you load (or shooting factory ammo around 3k fps) you can get 1000-2000 out of a barrel. There are good factory options for ammo that's not crazy expensive, but its also not cheap.
Take this next part with the caveat that I love the 6GT and think its the best all around 6mm cartridge out there. But, you can have a gun build in 6GT. There is factory ammo out there for $36 a box that puts the speed close to 6 creed. If you reload, you can download it to about 2800fps and get 2500-3000 rounds out of the barrel. You can run it hot at 2950-3K fps and get 2000 more more out of it. It will feed from mags flawlessly. Since its close to the BR family, its one of the easiest cartridges to load for. It has a wide range of powders from fast ones like varget to slower ones like H4350, making sourcing a good powder much easier. Its soft shooting and paired up with good brass (alpha) a good barrel and good bullets (berger) its a little laser beam. This would bring your cost in barrel life, even with a carbon barrel down to less than $.50 per shot, or down to $.30 with a steel barrel. Something like a 22" 6GT with a good can on the end would be my first choice, assuming I am not chasing absolute performance because that performance gets incredibly expensive for a marginal improvement in ballistics.
I couldnt agree with you more! Ive been running the 6SLR for years and its hard to beat without having to fireform. The 6 competition match is another one but you have to fireform. I'm also running a 6GT but it doesnt have the velocity of the 6slr.
Xdeano
