7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

[Dylan in AZ]

Hello everybody! It's Dylan here with a compilation of the types of ammo I have shot out of my MKII-TR in 22LR over the last two months. Without further ado:

Shooter: TerrorInTheShadows
Rifle: Savage MKII-TR
Caliber: 22LR
Base/Rings: EGW 20 MOA/Burris XTR
Scope: Super Sniper 10x42

Position: Benchrest
Front Support: Harris 6-9" Non-Notched Bi-Pod
Rear Support: None

<span style="text-decoration: underline">25 Yards</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Target:</span>
- Average = 0.351"
- Standard Deviation = 0.126"
- Minimum = 0.220"
- Maximum = 0.540"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Winchester Bulk:</span>
- Avg. = 0.513"
- S.D. = 0.063"
- Min. = 0.455"
- Max. = 0.630"

<span style="text-decoration: underline">50 Yards</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Target:</span>
- Avg. = 0.798"
- S.D. = 0.163"
- Min. = 0.640"
- Max. = 1.070"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Wolf Match Extra:</span>
- Avg. = 1.151"
- S.D. = 0.288"
- Min. = 0.380"
- Max. = 1.430"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Aguila Gold Eagle:</span>
- Avg. = 1.110"
- S.D. = 0.469"
- Min. = 0.470"
- Max. = 1.990"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Winchester Bulk:</span>
- Avg. = 0.844"
- S.D. = 0.219"
- Min. = 0.725"
- Max. = 1.260"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Winchester Bulk (Sorted by Weight):</span>
- Avg. = 1.635"
- S.D. = 0.244"
- Min. = 1.450"
- Max. = 1.980"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Winchester Bulk (Sorted by Weight and then by OAL):</span>
- Avg. = 0.831"
- S.D. = 0.260"
- Min. = 0.550"
- Max. = 1.212"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Federal Bulk:</span>
- Avg. = 1.375"
- S.D. = 0.187"
- Min. = 1.080"
- Max. = 1.600"

<span style="text-decoration: underline">100 Yards</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Target:</span>
- Avg. = 1.518"
- S.D. = 0.503"
- Min. = 0.960"
- Max. = 2.460"

I will edit this data as more ammo gets tested. Aguila, Federal Bulk, Winchester Bulk, Wolf Match Extra, Wolf Match Target, Remington Target, and a few different types of Eley is what I have left to test and all of that is going to be done strictly at 100 Yards.

Next month I will be competing in four of the Sniper's Hide Rimfire Competitions as well as a local SmallBore Competition through my range. I'm hoping to make the AA class but only time will tell.

Thanks for reading,
-Dylan

 

[gjantzer]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

This little piece doesn't make sense to me:

Winchester Bulk:
- Avg. = 0.844"
- S.D. = 0.219"
- Min. = 0.725"
- Max. = 1.260"

Winchester Bulk (Sorted by Weight):
- Avg. = 1.635"
- S.D. = 0.244"
- Min. = 1.450"
- Max. = 1.980"

the exact same ammo at random (including heavier and lighter bullets) shoot twice as good as ammo sorted out by weight? I'm guess a small test sample, windy conditions, typo, some shooting glitch or something unidentified is at play here.

Think about it......if you shot a large enough sample of the unsorted variety, you would statistically have to shoot a sample that is the same as the sorted batch....at some point. OP, you have any idea what created this anomaly?

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Actually I am very glad you mentioned this

See, I was in a hurry to get everything typed up and I needed to get somewhere so I neglected to explain my findings. I too thought this was very weird. In all honesty it was simply a quick test of four groups of the Winchester lot, sorted by weight, versus the un-sorted lot. I had four groups of five shots of the sorted stuff and well alot of groups from the regular random stuff. But the sorted groups were fairly consistent considering the low amount of groups. The data I have posted is not set in stone; it is what I have so far and will be changed and edited as I figure things out. This particular anomaly has me a little stupefied and is causing me to sort out many more batches for further testing in hopes of disproving this weird result I currently have on my hands.

However if the testing I will be doing soon proves that what I have now is correct, or relatively close to, then I am forced to search for the answer "why?" and that may be a tricky answer to come by.

If I were to guess that answer right now, this very minute, I would have to assume that the consistencies of the cases, powder charges, bullets, and primers have to lead to an overall deficiency in simply sorting by weight.

What I will do is sort another larger batch of "sorted by weight" and test this out. I will also sort by length only to see if it has an effect on groups similar to sorting by weight, and then by length. Hopefully things will average themselves out over a short period of time and we will have our answer to this question.

Hope explains a little bit,
-Dylan

 

[GSRswapandslow]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

i was about to ask wtf happened to the wolf..but i saw you had a good group then a horrrrrible one. flier or shooter caused error?

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Probably most "bad" groups were totally my fault. When I re-averaged all the groups I have shot out of this rifle I included any and all fliers. So honestly I can't tell you if it really was or wasn't a flier that caused the bad group because I have erased all marks of fliers, called or not. It may seem rediculous to do this but in real life, and in competitions as well, fliers are going to be counted anyway so there really isn't any point in taking them out of the data sets.

That being said, I think I'm going to keep trying all ammo over again but at 100 Yards this time around for more dramaticized effects and results for easier comparison. But so far I have to say the Eley Target (Yellow Box) has just ran circles around all the other types so far. The Wolf was Match Extra anyways, and from what I've read here, most people have typically average results with it. However the Wolf Match Target seems to produce the best relults for most people of any ammo tried. And ironically, it happens to be cheaper than most other ammo types.

I doubt I will decide on anything for sure for at least two more months.

But short answer to your question: Yeah it was probably my fault

 

[gjantzer]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

I have found that Wolf Match Target will shoot well in virtually all .22lr applications. I have a gun that likes Federal American Eagle, one that likes CCI Blazer, one that likes CCI mini-mags and one that likes Eley Sport. Switch these bullets around within the group of guns and you get wild results; with one exception.....Wolf Match Target is loved by all of them. In fact, Wolf Match Target is slightly better in each gun than the cheaper ammo that the gun really loves. I have come to the conclusion that you have to spend centerfire type money to find a .22lr round that will outshoot Wolf Match Target. Will Eley Tennex outshoot my Wolf MT? Maybe, but I won't ever find out unless I enter a competition. Now I have 30,000 rounds of Wolf MT and just grab another brick any time I go shooting. I get much more effective shooting practice done by not having to worry about which ammo to shoot or even what torque setting to have my action screw at. Thanks for all the work you are putting in. People do and will appreciate it.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This little piece doesn't make sense to me:

Winchester Bulk:
- Avg. = 0.844"
- S.D. = 0.219"
- Min. = 0.725"
- Max. = 1.260"

Winchester Bulk (Sorted by Weight):
- Avg. = 1.635"
- S.D. = 0.244"
- Min. = 1.450"
- Max. = 1.980"

</div></div>

It means two things, and these facts are not tied to just the groups you reference - one, the shooter is inconsistent regardless of ammo, and two, he is working with statistically insignificant sample sizes.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It means two things, and these facts are not tied to just the groups you reference - one, the shooter is inconsistent regardless of ammo, and two, he is working with statistically insignificant sample sizes.</div></div>
Now I'm not the best shooter, and certainly have a ton to learn still and have plenty of time to learn those things but I am a decent shot. My zeros always stay the same and my group sizes don't vary in like conditions. Sure when I'm freezing my ass off and shaking uncontrollably my groups are obviously going to get larger and yield unreliable data but that doesn't make me a shit shooter as it appears you are claiming.

I do need larger test samples and I have admitted that before so why state it yet again? I haven't finished anything yet. I'm probably not going to be done for a long time but this still doesn't make me a bad shot. I'm not blaming anything for less than amazing groups but I am interested in seeing what happens when it’s a little warmer out and I can shoot comfortably. Maybe then you'll actually see what I'm truly capable of.

I am "relatively new" to precision shooting but I have been shooting since I was a little boy and have never ever been called a bad or inconsistent shot. I'm sorry if I am getting over offended to your statement _9H but I feel insulted and this is the best way I can defend myself appropriately.

I am doing my best and am still learning. I should have some more stuff for you guys by Sunday evening. I just got a new set of rings installed tonight and they bring the scope a tad lower to where my confortable cheekweld is at. It's still not quite right so I will have to get an adjustable cheekrest here shortly.

I am having fun though, and i feel that is truly what matters the most here. Even if don't really make any progress for a while I had a damn fine time. This is the most I've ever been able to shoot and i couldn't love what I've been doing any more than I currently do.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

he never said "shit shooter"...

he said inconsistent...

it's true, even if it really is the conditions making you so, go take a Midol

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Sorry, I overreacted to nothing.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

I just picked up three boxes of Eley Target, Team, and Match (Yellow, Blue, and Black boxes) as well as a brick of Wolf Match Target thus echausting my funds for ammo for a while. Hopefully what i have will get me through early May. I'm looking foreward to trying the higher end Eley stuff out for the first time and having a direct comparison to the lower end stuff I have already tried. I think it's best if I shoot any and all targets at 100 yards from here on out as the difference between group sizes will be more noticable. Or would it be smarter to shoot at 50 yards and keep the wind from having as much of an effect on the bullets? I don't have quite enough of the Eley boxes to do both so I would like to do it all at one distance and have a fair comparison.

I'm glad I took the plunge and just bought the brick of Wolf ammo because this will allow me to shoot it in any position at any range withot having to worry about comparing it to other group results.

And again, I feel bad for overreacting to _9H's comment.

 

[steve123]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TerrorInTheShadows</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up three boxes of Eley Target, Team, and Match (Yellow, Blue, and Black boxes) as well as a brick of Wolf Match Target thus echausting my funds for ammo for a while. Hopefully what i have will get me through early May. I'm looking foreward to trying the higher end Eley stuff out for the first time and having a direct comparison to the lower end stuff I have already tried. I think it's best if I shoot any and all targets at 100 yards from here on out as the difference between group sizes will be more noticable. Or would it be smarter to shoot at 50 yards and keep the wind from having as much of an effect on the bullets? I don't have quite enough of the Eley boxes to do both so I would like to do it all at one distance and have a fair comparison.

I'm glad I took the plunge and just bought the brick of Wolf ammo because this will allow me to shoot it in any position at any range withot having to worry about comparing it to other group results.

And again, I feel bad for overreacting to _9H's comment. </div></div>

Dylan,

I'd say that unless you happen to be out at the range on a very calm day to forgo the 100Y.Stick to the 50Y for testing right now and then pick the best of that test for 100Y testing later when the conditions allow.Do everything you can do to ensure consistency.Get a good nights sleep,pick a calm day,eat a good breakfast,etc...Also sometimes a certain ammo will shoot good at 50Y then open up more than what one would think it should at 100Y.

9H is a very nice person and one of the best shooters in the nation.I doubt if he was trying to insult you.There was obviously something that was wrong.Human error,wind,whatever...The point is that more testing would need to done to come to a good conclusion.

Remember 22 ammo varies slightly from lot to lot.One of the 50 boxes you test now might shoot great then the next order a month from now just OK.So don't get caught up in quest for super accuracy.1/2 MOA at 50Y is very good! Personally since I'm not interested in spending $10-$20 a box so I can get that "hopeful" extra .2" at 50Y I'm done testing.

Good call on the Wolf.A friend and I ordered about a dozen different types of medium priced ammo to test.I think we stopped at $8.00 a box for the price cap.I was surprised how poorly some of the ammo shot.In my Anschutz and Ruger 10-22 race rifle the Wolf MT shot the best and better than the ME.We quickly ordered a case of 5000 from the same lot.I'm a cheap ass so for my purposes it's perfect.Heck even being a CA I wish we had bought 20,000 because we paid less than $4.00 a box back then.

 

[Rolex24]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Great advice Steve. My Savage seems to prefer Fed711B and Wolf ME/MT equally. I was disappointed it didn't like Eley Team, especially since I invested in 1K rounds of that. Interestingly enough, my Annie MPR likes to eat the same ammo as my Savage.

Now, here's a little nugget I picked up over on Rimfirecentral.com. The different brands use different lube. Most noticeable with the Fed lube=waxy and the Wolf lube=greasy. When accuracy testing make sure to put 10 or so rounds of the ammo down the tube to season the barrel to that ammo's lube or you may get a residual benefit or detriment from the previous ammo's lube. That could throw off your findings. Hope this helps.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Steve,

Thanks for the advice on the 50 vs 100 yard testing question I had. While talking to my dad about it he stated that the wind plays less of an effect on the bullets at 50 then it does at 100 so it would seem obvious that 50 yards just plain makes more sense and I agree'd. So 50 yard testing it is!

I'm not going to post anything more on the Winchester ammo sorting utill I've proven mostly to myself and to a few others that i can really find the difference between groups and make sure that it has to be the ammo and not myself making the groups larger or smaller. I want to get tht taken care of reletively quickly but I'm going to put it on the backburner and make sure I'm up to the task before I really get to it.

As for the lot chasing, I'm just not into it. I will test the different brands but I honestly couldn't care much less about chasing lot numbers and all that quite yet. It is just way too much work for such a small payoff. And I'm not at the skill level to take any real advantage of that small payoff to make it work for me. So it would appear that chasing the lots will simply be a waste of time and effort.


Rolex,

Regarding the ammo lubes, I knew about this and have gotten much better results after cleaning the bore of the rifle before switching brands. It really does make a world of difference. What I'm really curious about is if you are using one type of ammo, lets say Eley Team, and then you switch to Eley Tenex. Would you see any benefit from cleaning the bore in that situation where you are keeping the manufacturer the same but changing the quality of the ammo. I mean, in all reality it very well could be the same exact lube so in theory, you could be wasting 10-20 rounds of fouling shots of the very expensive Tenex where you could've been already on the ball and rolling had you not cleaned your bore right?

Is this the case or do you still need to clean when changing any aspect of the ammo you're using?

I would like to "waste" as little ammo as possible so this could really help me out. Maybe someone has tested this question before?



-Dylan

 

[JRucker2004]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TerrorInTheShadows</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is this the case or do you still need to clean when changing any aspect of the ammo you're using?

I would like to "waste" as little ammo as possible so this could really help me out. Maybe someone has tested this question before?



-Dylan</div></div>
If you want consistent data, you need to use consistent methods.
If you are going to clean between types of ammo, do it for every single type of ammo. If you're going to dirty the bore with a few rounds before shooting the group, use the same number of rounds, and do it with every type of ammo.
The more time you spend getting things consistent, the better results you'll have. If you don't put in the effort, the results will be different, and probably not as ideal.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

I figured I should do that and keep everything constant.

One more question, Steve123 said to: "Get a good nights sleep,pick a calm day,eat a good breakfast,etc..."

This is the same sort of thing they tell us the night before a big test in school or something of that caliber like the state exams and such. I truly do believe in this and I love mountain biking... so the above ties into the biking and I will be hitting the trails sometime in the morning and shooting in the afternoon. If I had it my way I'd switch the two activities but will the exercize in the morning be detrimental to the shooting in the evening or will it cause my heart rate to be more calmed then normal and thus lead to better results? Or will it be an indiferent result regardless of what I do in the morning?

I can see it going either way but for the record, I will have at least two hours of recovery time. Probably closer to 3 or 4 hours in all reality. But should this make a difference?

And I'm going to see if the rangemaster will allow me to shoot prone at the end of the firing line. I've never seen anyone doing it but then again, most people that are usually there aren't trying for any type of accuracy and of those who are, most usually prefer to shoot benchrest anyways. Hopefully I will be allowed to shoot prone. If I can, I'll post a 4P target @50 yards in the competition section and I will probably end up shooting the TQ4 @100 and the Tactical Target @50. At any rate I will be joining in on the fun this month

-Dylan

 

[steve123]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rolex24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great advice Steve. My Savage seems to prefer Fed711B and Wolf ME/MT equally. I was disappointed it didn't like Eley Team, especially since I invested in 1K rounds of that. Interestingly enough, my Annie MPR likes to eat the same ammo as my Savage.

Now, here's a little nugget I picked up over on Rimfirecentral.com. The different brands use different lube. Most noticeable with the Fed lube=waxy and the Wolf lube=greasy. When accuracy testing make sure to put 10 or so rounds of the ammo down the tube to season the barrel to that ammo's lube or you may get a residual benefit or detriment from the previous ammo's lube. That could throw off your findings. Hope this helps. </div></div>

Thanks for the advice.I wish I had known that 3 years ago when I did the testing.I don't know why that WMT works so good in different guns ??? My friends custom 10-22 shot it the best as well

 

[steve123]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TerrorInTheShadows</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured I should do that and keep everything constant.

One more question, Steve123 said to: "Get a good nights sleep,pick a calm day,eat a good breakfast,etc..."

This is the same sort of thing they tell us the night before a big test in school or something of that caliber like the state exams and such. I truly do believe in this and I love mountain biking... so the above ties into the biking and I will be hitting the trails sometime in the morning and shooting in the afternoon. If I had it my way I'd switch the two activities but will the exercize in the morning be detrimental to the shooting in the evening or will it cause my heart rate to be more calmed then normal and thus lead to better results? Or will it be an indiferent result regardless of what I do in the morning?

I can see it going either way but for the record, I will have at least two hours of recovery time. Probably closer to 3 or 4 hours in all reality. But should this make a difference?

And I'm going to see if the rangemaster will allow me to shoot prone at the end of the firing line. I've never seen anyone doing it but then again, most people that are usually there aren't trying for any type of accuracy and of those who are, most usually prefer to shoot benchrest anyways. Hopefully I will be allowed to shoot prone. If I can, I'll post a 4P target @50 yards in the competition section and I will probably end up shooting the TQ4 @100 and the Tactical Target @50. At any rate I will be joining in on the fun this month

-Dylan </div></div>

The best time I've found to shoot groups is shortly after sun up.

The main thing is comfort and doing the same thing every time within the shot sequence.It's not a bad idea to learn how the wind affects the shot by putting some flags out.A cheap way to get some flags up is to just put some surveyors tape on a piece of re-bar that you can stick in the ground.One at the firing line,one half way down and one by the target.If possible try to arrange then so you can see them through the scope.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">UPDATE!!</span></span>

Today went absolutely stellar. Okay so first off the guy we were supposed to go mountain biking with flaked out on us again so we decided to flip flop the schedule. Shooting in the morning, riding in the afternoon. The weather was the best it has ever been since I've had this rifle. There wasn't even the slightest flick of wind at all today, slightly cloudy, and cool temperature. Just absolutely amazing conditions.

So I decided today was the day to try the Eley boxes I bought yesterday. I had Target, Team, and Match to try out. So I found my zero from 200 yards down to 50 yards (no I don't know my dope yet, don't give me too much crap for it!) and took 5 shots to get to where I wanted to be. I cleaned the bore, and set off to work.

My position remained the same, benchrest, bi-pod, no rear rest. Here are the results followed by a short analysis and discussion of them:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Yellow Box (Target)</span>
Average - 0.827"
Standard Deviation - 0.170
Largest Group - 1.230"
Smallest Group - 0.570"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Blue Box (Team)</span>
Average - 0.637"
Standard Deviation - 0.208
Largest Group - 0.990"
Smallest Group - 0.360"

<span style="font-weight: bold">Eley Black Box (Match)</span>
Average - 0.551"
Standard Deviation - 0.180
Largest Group - 0.825"
Smallest Group - 0.475"

The Yellow Box yielded decent results overall and was groups similarly to other groups produced on other range trips. So I have to assume it was correct. So when I pulled out the Blue Box for testing, I can't even describe how amazed I was. I shot the first group and thought it just had to be a fluke (in the moment I forget it was an $11 box of ammo) so I continued on and found that each group thereafter got just a little tighter than the one before. It was such a nice thing to see results like this. So once that box was shot out I made the switch over to the Black Box and I didn't notice any difference. In fact if anything it seemed to shoot a tad worse than the Blue box. Even though it's only a dollar more for a Black Box I still expected slightly better results from it. Well low and behold, when I measured out the groups it showed to be much more consistent than anything I've tried thus far through this rifle and again, I was pleasantly surprised.

I guess I have to give a shout out to Carter Mayfield as he helped me quite a bit to get started in the rimfire scene and specifically pointed me towards the Eley ammo, which has obviously shot much better than anything I've tried so far. I suppose it stands to reason why most competitions have been won using Eley ammo

On a side note, my dad just finished his 10-22 build. It's a factory action with a Volquartsen trigger upgrade (HIGHLY recommend!) sitting in a Boyd's Stock with a Tactical Solutions barrel. At first he was shooting with the same lot of Federal Bulk ammo I was testing with earlier and getting relatively large 10-shot groups with it. It was okay but kind of a depressing result after finishing a build. So I told him to try the Wolf ammo I just bought yesterday and see if it makes a difference. Wow it did in a tremendous way. He went from getting probably 2.5-4 inch 10 shot groups to all 10 in under an inch. What a spectacular improvement that made! And until then he had not been convinced that the match ammo could be so much better than the bulk stuff. So he went through 100 rounds of that and I think he's going to buy himself a brick of it so he can shoot and not feel bad for using my supply (even though I told him to use it in the first place!). So we couldn't be much happier with how that turned out. The next trip to the range we're going to switch guns and see how the difference between the two is.

And next week I'm going to start using the Wolf MT and see if it even compares to the Eley boxes I've tried. I hope its close at least because I'm forced to use it for a while now.



<span style="font-size: 8pt">
And if anyone cares, the mountain bike we rented for the weekend (because we were expecting an extra rider) was phenomenal. It's a Trek ex9 and has been the best ride I've had on the mountain to date. Defiantly beat the 29er hardtail I usually ride. Not to say what I've got isn't great, just extra props to Trek for making an excellent bike! The Specialized bikes I've ridden don't even compare. But I have to admit I don't care for the Bontrager tires, I'd much preferred a Kenda Nevegal up front and a Kenda Small Block 8 in the rear. That would be perfect!</span>

Thanks for reading!
-Dylan

 

[steve123]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Glad you had a good time and found a nice day Dylan.

My Trek fully suspended sits in garage cause I'm too Lazy to ride

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Thanks Steve, and you need to fix that laziness problem

It plagues too many Americans!

 

[BuellX1]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Mine Loves Wolf Match. Just found some Federal Blue box Target that it shot good but wind was blowing hard will try again on a calm day.

 

[Rolex24]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Dylan,
Good deal. Sounds like a great outing. Next question....want to buy some Eley Team?????

Keep up the good work and thanks for posting your results.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Next question....want to buy some Eley Team?????

Keep up the good work and thanks for posting your results.
</div></div>
No problem, I just hope someone benefits from the work I put in. I know I learn from posting my results but hopefully there is at least one person out there that gets something from this all, then all this won't be wasted time and effort.

On the Eley team, how much, what's your price, what is the lot number/machine used, and what is the posted velocity?

Just curious

 

[D_TROS]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

hey,

I am doing another thread on ammo (7 types w rem 40x) and this sunday tested 6 more types of ammo. Just wanted to let you know the Eley Orange box (Club) shot very well, prob the best of all 13 types I have tested so far.

Have not updated my thread with new ammo but will in next couple days. Then plan to take the best from 50yds and test at 100yds.

After reading your thread, I def want to test some more Eley.

Regards,
DT

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

I found with the Eley Club EPS (orange) that the rim thicknesses were so varied that it would get kinda wild. The Match EPS varied very little and the groups shrunk.

When I rim gauged and sorted the Orange box the .033 - .035 shot pretty well. Now when I get into a friendly "contest," everyone else shoots the "other" stuff... LOL!

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Thanks guys, i was tempted to pick up a couple of the orange boxes just because the price is so much lower but i've read nothing but bad reviews on those boxes (minus D_TROS's) so i decided that it's for another day

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Oh and I have a really frustrating problem to deal with that I totally frgot to speak about when writing my last update...

So I had about 25 rounds of my last box of Eley ammo left to shoot and I put the loaded mag into the rifle and attempt to close the bolt. Well the bolt sticks onto something and I figured the bullet caught on the chamber but it hadn't even moved from its place in the magazine. So I was a bit confused. I will admit I forced the bolt foreward but not overly roughly to the point where it could've damaged anything. The bolt closed and I fired the shot and it impacted four inches high and two and three quarter inches to the left of where I was aiming. I was expecting as much honestly but was worried about the rest of the magazine. It functioned properly as usual so I forgot about it and regarded what had happened as nothing but a simple jam. Then I loaded the mag back up and inserted it back into the rifle but it wouldn't be put in smoothly as usual. This time it caught on something so I eventually resorted to a light smack on the bottom and it latched into place like an AR mag would. The shots fired just fine and the mag ejected as usual but the four consecutive times I attempted to load the mag i had the same results. Good group, but required a smack in the bottom of the mag to be in place. It has to be something to do with the stuck bolt before the jams. Has anyone ever come across this before? Is it a simple common problem? Is there an easy fix?

Thanks,
-Dylan

 

[clmayfield]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Sounds like a good day testing. You kind of have to do it for yourself... but it looks like you got where I ended up. You might find some lots of black box are better than others.

 

[Rolex24]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

TITS, (that's funny)....not sure the spec's on the Eley Team but I'll dig it out and pm you with them and price. I've got a brick I'd be willing to move.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Thanks Carter, and Ok Rolex
Any advice on the above mentioned problems anyone?

 

[gjantzer]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Dylan - I was very curious about different types of ammo when i first started out with rimfire shooting. I quickly came to realize that you need lots and lots of shooting practice for your own shooting skills before the group measurements become significant. I use "your own shooting skills" generally to refer to all shooters. I was finding that I could shoot 10 groups with Wolf Match Target and 2 of them would be significantly bigger groups than the others. That means 20% of my data was going to be crap just based on my own shooting. Having 20% of your data being questionable over small sample sizes like we are talking about is arguably enough to make all of the data suspect at best. I loved the process of testing which ammo my gun liked. But I was not able to actually determine which ammo was really the best.......only which ammo i was able to shoot best with on that day. What I decided to do was shoot Wolf MT every single time out until virtually every group was about the same size. To be honest with you, I'm still working on it. It is tough to become a great shooter. I personally like reading your results. It was another post like yours that lead me to Wolf MT. With your passion for shooting I have no doubt your skills are already improving quickly.

I say all this with one suggestion. Take the top 5 ammos that your gun likes from all of this testing. Then, retest those 5 ammos again in 6 months. Your personal shooting will be better.........but will the top 5 ammo samples still be ranked the same? I swear i want to pull my hair out some days over this. But I do notice that every month i become a better shooter.

Good info and thanks for sharing.......keep up the data stream and I'll keep reading.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Will do, I love this process even if It's not exactly perfect for my skill level at the moment. I've come to the conclusion that I need to find out what my gun itself is capable of producing and then just practice practice practice untill my shooting skills are up to par with the rifles. Then i'll go back and re-test what I've already done

But i'll keep posting results with the wolf ammo as I get it to see my own progress.

Thanks,
-Dylan

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Well I got out to shoot a ton of the Wolf MT I recently bought. This stuff works very well and for the first time ever, I can actually see a definitive cold bore shot. I know the weather is getting cooler so that may also be the reason, but for the most part, I get consistent lower right hand hits the first shot of each mag. I would prefer to not have this at all, but knowing it is in fact there is also not a bad thing.

I cleaned my magazine port and the problem I was having with loading is now non-existent.

Now for the results of the day:

50 Yards:
0.79"
0.74"
0.45"
0.64"
0.80"
0.97"
0.37"
0.72"
1.10"
1.09"
0.69"

100 Yards:
2.27"
1.84"
1.70"
1.84"
1.29"

Each of these groups are double what they would be if the cold bore shots weren't there. So once I get the cold bore dialed in and place it correctly, I guarantee the capabilities will prove to be phenomenal. And because I was curious, I decided to use a sand bag for my rear rest on a few other test groups to get a better idea of what this combination is capable of without so much of my own error playing into the equation.

At 50 yards, It nailed a 3-shot group at 0.16", several five shot groups averaging 0.32", and one ten shot group was at 0.47"

This really gave me a good idea of what I have to work towards before I can justify paying a ton more money for the Eley ammo that worked so well for me. Until then I have plenty of practice to keep me busy!

And speaking of practice, I suck, I mean flat out SUCK at position shooting! I shot the chicken target for smallbore silhouette at 50 yards and made one hit out of the five shots I took. I will say that the rest we're within a half inch of breaking the line though; but still, no cigar. I'm going to put off the monthly competition at our shooting range for another month and allow myself more practice.

I shot the 4P comp @ 25 and 50 yards today though too, can't say I faired too well on that either but I will post my scores in the comp thread. And I also participated in the tactical comp as well, which will also be posted in the comp thread. I really screwed up on this one though, but hopefully practice will make my scores more reasonable.

Oh, and I shot the 100 yard TQ4 as well, and wow am I proud of that one! I scored a 246-11x and couldn't have been any happier when I saw just how well I did.

Overall it was a good day of shooting.

On a side note, my old neighbor from several years ago has been shooting with us recently and just bought a pistol. He also brought his son out for the first time to teach him how to shoot. This kid is a good childhood friend of mine and I'm extremely proud to say he is an incredible shot. He was putting pistol rounds on target much better than my dad and his dad, and probably much better than I would have done too had I have shot pistol today. He also tried his dad's old 10-22 and was shooting very well with that as well. I wish the best for him and know he will keep up with this sport! One more youth to keep the legacy of shooting sports alive is OK by me

Did I mention position shooting is very difficult anywhere in there? I think I did, but in case I didn't, IT's VERY DIFFICULT! But I will keep on trying!

Thanks for reading,
-Dylan

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Well guys, I am pretty much done with testing ammos for a while. I still have a 100 of Remington/Eley Match ammo to screw around with soon, and I will be posting results with that when I get them, but for the time being I really just need to practice on my form in different positions. For instance, prone should be one of, if not the best, and most stable positions to shoot in. Because I have been a benchrest shooter all my life and have only went prone maybe four times, I need to practice at it. I am kind of uncomfortable in the prone position and cant seem to keep the rifle steady when shooting. Unlike benchrest where I keep the crosshairs completly still whenever I shoot. I've also noticed that my cheek-weld is nowhere near in the same position when switching from bench to prone. Maybe I should be posting this in the Advanced Marksmanship Unit for advice from there on what I'm doing wrong. It feels like the scope is too far foreward when in prone and I have to strain my neck a little to get the same sight picture as I would if I were on the bench, or any other position for that matter. So it's really just going into prone that annoys me. Any thoughts?

 

[xray9]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Better get some Fiocchi 320, 340M...my Anschutz M1413 demonstrated how much better this brand was compared to the pricy UK ammunition.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

$5/box of 50 for Wolf MT is good enough for me. I will try the Fiocci sometime in the future but for now I really just need to focus on improving my skill and not ammo testing.

I LOVE reactive targets though. Anything that breaks, moves, or makes noise is such a pleasure to shoot out in the desert. And unknown distances + some wind mixed in is just so much fun

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Oh and this is why i love that Eley so much...

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

Let's call today a "funny" day at the range...

First off, I am a massive fan of the EDM Arms Windrunner series of rifles. There were two gentlemen at the range today, at the end of the firing line, which were shooting these beasts. It looked like the one closest to me was an XM408 while the other was switched between what I believe to be the 50 barrel, and the 408 Barrel. I am unsure of this though, I didn't ask, but rather stared at the beautiful rifles, at least until one was fired, and I very smartly neglected to have my ear plugs in... Yeah, that kid of hurt a bit, and didn't let up any. For some reason I had my ear plugs out quite a bit today, not very smart...

But in any case, I also discovered that ear plugs, while they still expand when you roll them smaller, if you squish them length-wise they won't pop back out. Funny, but again, painful.

Anyways, on to my results: I wanted to get a good 200 yard A-21 target score for the 100-300 yard competitions here on the hide. And my first time shooting at a target for score past 100 yards with my 22lr. It's awesome not being able to spot your hits...

So, I posted two targets. One on the left of the board, and the other to that ones right. They were separated by 2-3 inches of blank space. I first fired at the right target. Spotting scope was out of adjustment and I couldn't really see anything. I wasted a good 10 shots and decided to shoot at a rock and spot the dirt impacts. What I didn't account for is the rock I was shooting at was behind the target a while. So I spent a good 30 shots getting it perfectly aligned with the rock. It took me that many because I was accidentally turning the turret on my scope the wrong way and wasn't realizing it. Once I had it pegged, I moved back up to the right target and took aim. 15 shots later I figured out I could adjust the spotting scope. Silly me.

So my impact radius was about 4 inches high and 2-2.5 inches to the right. I dialed in the correction on my scope and switched targets. Now I shot a 5-shot group as a test. And was thoroughly surprised. At two hundred yards with my 22lr I got a five shot group of 1.34" and four of those five were in a group of 0.575"

Wow! So at this point my concern is ruining that great group with 20 more shots

So I'm trying to decide what my next course of action will be. I ultimately decided to move back over to the right side target and correct for the error on the left target and start the real string of 25 shots. And of course, my old best friends Mr. Wind and Mrs. Mother Nature, showed up and ruined the party. I fired another string of five at the right hand target and each and every one of them landed on the left target in the same exact proximity at my beautiful five shot group...

Luckily I had made a note to where all the shots landed (One 1/4" 3:00 of the "X" and the other four just below the "10" of the ten ring.

Right about now I gave up trying. I don't know how to mess with wind drift at all so I figured it's best to put the rest of my ammo off for another day. I have exactly 30 rounds so next weekend (or tomorrow if there's no wind in the evening) I'll give it another try.

Until then all I can do is make a note of the correct dope for my gun and play with JBM until I get spot on numbers. Not a total waste of the day I guess

And later I will be going down to Firebird Raceway to watch the Lucas Oil Short Course Races. That's something I've always wanted to go see so I'm excited about that.

For proof of the targets:

Left hand target:

Right hand target:

Thanks for reading,
-Dylan

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: 7 Types of 22LR Ammo Tested (MKII-TR)

The Federal Automatch didn't work at all for me. It was at best, a plinking worthy ammo in my rifle. Remington target was no better. And as always the Wolf Match Extra/Target perfomed very well. I had 10 sighters to use (none of which were very helpful w/o a spotting scope) for my A-21 200 Yard target. I re-tried it and was less than happy w/ the results. I decided to just keep shooting all 25 shots until I was done. I had no more to play with but here is what happened:

Two targets again, side by side w/ a gap in between. Left target was fr sighters, right target was for score. I missed all of my sighters. Spotting scope wasn't up to showing me this today so I kept on going on the right target. After I had finished I pulled my target and each and every one of the 25 shots was in a 3" circle directly in between the two targets. Not a single shot touched either paper and they were dead center on the bullseye. So If I would have had my windage correct, I could have shot a perfect score of 250 with the x count somewhere in the 15 range. Again, very frustrating. Conditions were perfect too. I need a better spotting scope.