77 SMK out of 11.5"

[fullm3taljacket]

Good day all. I have been in load development for a MK262 clone. I found several boxes of factory new SMK-loaded Fiocchi 77grainers and used that a a partial basis. I have included a table that I hope is viewable with the details. I know I am not using the best powders in the world for this, but it's what I have plenty of and these days, that's just going to have to do. My reloading manuals have me almost red-lined at the highest loadings here. There is virtually no recoil but it's VERY gassy, even with the Bootleg adjustable BCG turned all the way down. I only run this with the can on it, use an H2 buffer, have a G ACH, and have done the gasketing around the CH.

I would love to get the insight of those with more experience reloading for gas guns than I (been reloading for about 8 years, but have a lot to learn):

1) In anyone else's opinion, should I not slowly venture into higher pressure loadings to increase velocity?

&

2) Any suggestions on decreasing gas to the face other than what I've already done? (Again, this will only be used with a can)

If anyone wants any other details, just let me know and thanks for any and all advice!

 

[alamo5000]

I'm not able to see your data on my phone but the 77 grain choice is perfect for me. I have a suppressed 10.5 and it works great with Black Hills 77gr OTM.

If you can clarify a bit more about what kind of use you are using it for and what your goals are for a different load that would help.

For my use I am using them as my go to HD so I am opting for factory ammo. But if you are interested in reducing gas that's definitely a possibility. You will need to experiment with other powders that still give good velocity in that barrel length. I have personally used various powders and some are much more gassy than others.

 

[Greedmoor]

Check out Johnny’s reloading bench on YouTube, the end of his MK262 series summarizes the viable powders and those that you used are not them.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

I'm not able to see your data on my phone but the 77 grain choice is perfect for me. I have a suppressed 10.5 and it works great with Black Hills 77gr OTM.

If you can clarify a bit more about what kind of use you are using it for and what your goals are for a different load that would help.

For my use I am using them as my go to HD so I am opting for factory ammo. But if you are interested in reducing gas that's definitely a possibility. You will need to experiment with other powders that still give good velocity in that barrel length. I have personally used various powders and some are much more gassy than others.

I'd like to be able to use it for anything. Obviously coming out of an 11.5", terminal effect can get dubious rather quickly, but I can use 77s in any of my others as well, not just the 11.5". But I'm getting just over 2300fps currently, which, if I remember correctly is at or just under the ragged edge of being able to break apart on any kind of consistent basis.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

Check out Johnny’s reloading bench on YouTube, the end of his MK262 series summarizes the viable powders and those that you used are not them.

Will do, for sure. Can't believe i haven't already subscribed. Powder availability is more determining what is being used as opposed to what is ideal. Hey, at least what I'm using is in the reloading manuals!

 

[Greedmoor]

Will do, for sure. Can't believe i haven't already subscribed. Powder availability is more determining what is being used as opposed to what is ideal. Hey, at least what I'm using is in the reloading manuals!

SMK's are valuable too! We can be at 2550 mv from this barrel and that is quite significant vs 2300, so you may just want to wait for powder. The suppressor definitely reduces absolute max charge unless you tune gas down and bring buffer mass up. My 11.5" has the Adams Arms Piston so it's a quick button press for me and the pressure, recoil, gas, and wear and tear are greatly reduced vs. unsuppressed full gas setting.

 

[alamo5000]

I'd like to be able to use it for anything. Obviously coming out of an 11.5", terminal effect can get dubious rather quickly, but I can use 77s in any of my others as well, not just the 11.5". But I'm getting just over 2300fps currently, which, if I remember correctly is at or just under the ragged edge of being able to break apart on any kind of consistent basis.

Breaking apart depends on what distance you are shooting.

You can hit targets pretty far with an 11.5 but for reliable fragmentation you are needing to be within about 75 to 100 yards.

 

[S197]

As for loading I can not offer anything. For gas control on an ar, you will see better results with a superlative gas block and possibly a pri gas buster or radian SD.

if you want to test if a different CH will work you can try this temp mod.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

Breaking apart depends on what distance you are shooting.

You can hit targets pretty far with an 11.5 but for reliable fragmentation you are needing to be within about 75 to 100 yards.

Exactly

 

[fullm3taljacket]

As for loading I can not offer anything. For gas control on an ar, you will see better results with a superlative gas block and possibly a pri gas buster or radian SD.

if you want to test if a different CH will work you can try this temp mod.

I've worked with adj. gas blocks before and never again. That's why I got the adj. BCG. And I did the gasket for the CH already. That being said, if a Radian SD falls into my hands, i'll definitely give it a shot.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

SMK's are valuable too! We can be at 2550 mv from this barrel and that is quite significant vs 2300, so you may just want to wait for powder. The suppressor definitely reduces absolute max charge unless you tune gas down and bring buffer mass up. My 11.5" has the Adams Arms Piston so it's a quick button press for me and the pressure, recoil, gas, and wear and tear are greatly reduced vs. unsuppressed full gas setting.

Cool, 'ppreciate it!

 

[S197]

What block did you use and what problems did you have?

 

[NHPiper]

I ran 77gr Nosler Custom Competitions (almost identical bullet profile to the SMK) over 23.5gr varget in Lake City brass with great results. Easily sub-MOA out of a 12.5" Ballistic Advantage and a BCM barrel. I am not sure that is what I would run out of an 11.5-12.5", I lean more towards a 55gr soft point in the hope that it expands slightly or is more prone to tumbling

 

[fullm3taljacket]

What block did you use and what problems did you have?

It's not so much that I had problems, it really wasn't that bad. I've just learned a lot since those days and this is a rifle meant for serious duty use and I'm not a believer in having adjustable gas blocks on such tools. Others may differ on that point and hey, to each their own, but that is my stance. Further, the adj. BCG absolutely does work. As an example, when on the fully suppressed setting, it won't run steel Wolf but it will run on the higher-gassed settings. Having this does not compromise the gas system the way an adj, gas block would, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I think it is a feature every BCG should have as it barely costs more than other quality BCGs. Finally it is a pinned gas block and while I know it can be removed without issue, I'd just rather not, for the same reasons previously stated.

It was an Odin works one that I put on an suppressed M&P10 for the record, and it did it's job fairly well.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

I ran 77gr Nosler Custom Competitions (almost identical bullet profile to the SMK) over 23.5gr varget in Lake City brass with great results. Easily sub-MOA out of a 12.5" Ballistic Advantage and a BCM barrel. I am not sure that is what I would run out of an 11.5-12.5", I lean more towards a 55gr soft point in the hope that it expands slightly or is more prone to tumbling

Right...much like the powder issue I noted, if other factory ammo or reloading components were available, my current choices would definitely be different. But I have a bunch of factory 77gr ammo and 500 77gr SMKs, so, here we are. Per Dr. Gary K. Roberts, I would love to go to something like 64gr Gold Dots or 62gr Fusion for an all around companion, but those are vaporware right now, sadly. I was fortunate enough to find 40 rounds of the 62gr Fusion the other day in my LGS, actually, but that was it, and I was not expecting it.

 

[S197]

It's not so much that I had problems, it really wasn't that bad. I've just learned a lot since those days and this is a rifle meant for serious duty use and I'm not a believer in having adjustable gas blocks on such tools. Others may differ on that point and hey, to each their own, but that is my stance. Further, the adj. BCG absolutely does work. As an example, when on the fully suppressed setting, it won't run steel Wolf but it will run on the higher-gassed settings. Having this does not compromise the gas system the way an adj, gas block would, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I think it is a feature every BCG should have as it barely costs more than other quality BCGs. Finally it is a pinned gas block and while I know it can be removed without issue, I'd just rather not, for the same reasons previously stated.

It was an Odin works one that I put on an suppressed M&P10 for the record, and it did it's job fairly well.

I understand your thought process, but based on movement and impact wouldn’t an adjustable bcg have a greater chance of failure then a stationary adjustable block that vents the excess gas outside?

i run the LMT enhanced carrier to redirect gas.

 

[fullm3taljacket]

I understand your thought process, but based on movement and impact wouldn’t an adjustable bcg have a greater chance of failure then a stationary adjustable block that vents the excess gas outside?

i run the LMT enhanced carrier to redirect gas.

Based on my experience and knowledge I really don't think so. I'm not saying that your solution is bad, in fact the LMT BCG is awesome. If I was going to do an adj. GB, I'd do either the SA, personally. But if you've never seen how the Bootleg adjusts it's sturdy. It's better than the old one Gemtech put out since you can adjust it while still in the gun too. There are only four positions and they are stout. I've heard, but cannot verify that Bootleg made the Gemtech one's for them. I'd be interested to know if that's accurate if anyone has the skinny on that, btw. But I do have full faith in the adj BCG.

 

[EM_556]

I’ve used 77tmks out of a 11.5” barrel for pistol deer hunting. They work great. Just depends on your application