Anyone know anything about this caliber? Thinking of a new build and a friend says this is the caliber....
- Thread starter 69icarus
- Start date
Re: 7MM WSM
Excellent ballistics and less than stellar barrel life. They can work in a short action or be put in a long action to maximize potential.
Excellent ballistics and less than stellar barrel life. They can work in a short action or be put in a long action to maximize potential.
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent ballistics and less than stellar barrel life. They can work in a short action or be put in a long action to maximize potential. </div></div>
How many rounds did you get out of your barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent ballistics and less than stellar barrel life. They can work in a short action or be put in a long action to maximize potential. </div></div>
How many rounds did you get out of your barrel?
Re: 7MM WSM
A longer barrel, eg 28", can give you extra velocity with less wear.
A long action gives you more case capacity than a short action but at the cost of more wear and shorter barrel life.
A longer barrel, eg 28", can give you extra velocity with less wear.
A long action gives you more case capacity than a short action but at the cost of more wear and shorter barrel life.
Re: 7MM WSM
Seekins and alpha mags allow you to seat bullets longer and use a short action
Seekins and alpha mags allow you to seat bullets longer and use a short action
Re: 7MM WSM
I have never had one myself but when I was looking into the caliber during research for a build and came to the conclusion a barrel would probably be toast between 1500-2000 rounds depending on load used, cleaning, and firing schedule.
I have never had one myself but when I was looking into the caliber during research for a build and came to the conclusion a barrel would probably be toast between 1500-2000 rounds depending on load used, cleaning, and firing schedule.
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never had one myself but when I was looking into the caliber during research for a build and came to the conclusion a barrel would probably be toast between 1500-2000 rounds depending on load used, cleaning, and firing schedule. </div></div>
Cool, thanks for the misinformation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never had one myself but when I was looking into the caliber during research for a build and came to the conclusion a barrel would probably be toast between 1500-2000 rounds depending on load used, cleaning, and firing schedule. </div></div>
Cool, thanks for the misinformation.
Re: 7MM WSM
Point taken.
My research could be wrong. It was what I concluded after looking around this website and others.
I do know for a fact that it is at least a moderately overbore cartridge which is not conducive to long barrel life. I wouldn't chamber a rifle in it and expect to keep going like a .308.
Point taken.
My research could be wrong. It was what I concluded after looking around this website and others.
I do know for a fact that it is at least a moderately overbore cartridge which is not conducive to long barrel life. I wouldn't chamber a rifle in it and expect to keep going like a .308.
Re: 7MM WSM
Are any of you running the 7mmWSM in a REM700 long action? If so does it feed well?
Are any of you running the 7mmWSM in a REM700 long action? If so does it feed well?
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gyr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why long action means more barrel wear? </div></div>
I should have been clearer, long vs short action does not have to do anything with barrel wear. Loading more powder and a hotter load results in more barrel wear.
The argument for long action vs short is that for high BC bullets which are long, you have to seat them long to get enough case capacity and to touch the lands of barrel. A short action is limited in length if you use a magazine. However, Alpha and Seekins mags allow for longer cartridge length, helping to overcome this problem.
The advantage of a short action is a stiffer chassis, lighter weight than a long action, not having to lose your cheek position to cycle the bolt. My point was that you can make up slight loss in case capacity of a short action and thus velocity with a longer barrel, and that those magazines help to narrow the gap too.
A long action with magazine allows for longer cartridges, and more capacity to stuff in more powder for faster velocity, but more powder equals faster barrel wear.
Everything gained somewhere is a compromise elsewhere.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gyr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why long action means more barrel wear? </div></div>
I should have been clearer, long vs short action does not have to do anything with barrel wear. Loading more powder and a hotter load results in more barrel wear.
The argument for long action vs short is that for high BC bullets which are long, you have to seat them long to get enough case capacity and to touch the lands of barrel. A short action is limited in length if you use a magazine. However, Alpha and Seekins mags allow for longer cartridge length, helping to overcome this problem.
The advantage of a short action is a stiffer chassis, lighter weight than a long action, not having to lose your cheek position to cycle the bolt. My point was that you can make up slight loss in case capacity of a short action and thus velocity with a longer barrel, and that those magazines help to narrow the gap too.
A long action with magazine allows for longer cartridges, and more capacity to stuff in more powder for faster velocity, but more powder equals faster barrel wear.
Everything gained somewhere is a compromise elsewhere.
Re: 7MM WSM
You haven't said what you will be doing with the rifle, i.e. competition, hunting, paper/steel, 500m/1000/1mile? Or what type of rig setup you are wanting to use.
Seekins WSM DBM has an OAL of 3.140" (longest OAL of any SA DBM that I know of, and Glenn is a great guy to work with). You will have to modify your feed ramp/port opening on the bottom of your SA receiver so it can feed the longer rounds. Of course that's only if you are wanting a repeater. You don't have to worry about mag OAL if you get a SA single shot. But you haven't laid out what you are wanting so again it's hard to give advice when you ask such a generalized question.
Now that Norma and Nosler brass can be had for the 7SAUM I would consider it over the 7wsm.
6mmbr.com - 7mm Guide
If you haven't already read this page. I'm going to assume you haven't searched this topic at all before posting this. I think this link can be found on every SH thread that has 7mm anywhere in it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stu6x47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know anything about this caliber? Thinking of a new build and a friend says this is the caliber....</div></div>
Put a little more thought into this and refine it a bit, and we can give you answers more tailored to your specific needs. "Help me, help you."
I see the SH search engine has already been linked. You can also type site:snipershide.com in front of your google search and it will search the hide for you (or any other site just replace snipershide with another site you want to search).
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
You haven't said what you will be doing with the rifle, i.e. competition, hunting, paper/steel, 500m/1000/1mile? Or what type of rig setup you are wanting to use.
Seekins WSM DBM has an OAL of 3.140" (longest OAL of any SA DBM that I know of, and Glenn is a great guy to work with). You will have to modify your feed ramp/port opening on the bottom of your SA receiver so it can feed the longer rounds. Of course that's only if you are wanting a repeater. You don't have to worry about mag OAL if you get a SA single shot. But you haven't laid out what you are wanting so again it's hard to give advice when you ask such a generalized question.
Now that Norma and Nosler brass can be had for the 7SAUM I would consider it over the 7wsm.
6mmbr.com - 7mm Guide
If you haven't already read this page. I'm going to assume you haven't searched this topic at all before posting this. I think this link can be found on every SH thread that has 7mm anywhere in it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stu6x47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know anything about this caliber? Thinking of a new build and a friend says this is the caliber....</div></div>
Put a little more thought into this and refine it a bit, and we can give you answers more tailored to your specific needs. "Help me, help you."
I see the SH search engine has already been linked. You can also type site:snipershide.com in front of your google search and it will search the hide for you (or any other site just replace snipershide with another site you want to search).
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
Re: 7MM WSM
Complete your profile.
Complete your profile.
Re: 7MM WSM
Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?</div></div>
9 twist is what most people run. Some barrel manufacturers run a little faster twist for the heavies. My old Broughton was a true 9 twist but when I got my current Rock, they set it at a 8.7 twist for the heavies. I have also heard of some people run 8 twist to stabilize some of the 190s out there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.</div></div>
24-26 is what most people get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
</div></div> The 270/300 7WSMs have longer necks, giving it better throat life, in theory. Speeds are about the same from what I have seen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
</div></div>
I think barrel life of the 7WSM is grossly overrated. I have heard everything from 800-2k rounds for the barrel. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in terms of accuracy. Is it going to be shooting bench rest groups at 100 yards with 1k rounds through it? Probably not. But you are not going to build on that caliber to shoot 100 yards, as many hiders only seem to shoot. There are several well known smiths on the hide that have gotten over 2k rounds through their plane jane 7WSM. I pulled my last barrel at 3300 rounds because it was grouping on paper at 300. Other Hide members can attest to, it had no problems tearing up steel at 600 yards at the 3000 round mark through the barrel. It could hold at least 1 MOA with 3k rounds through her.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?</div></div>
9 twist is what most people run. Some barrel manufacturers run a little faster twist for the heavies. My old Broughton was a true 9 twist but when I got my current Rock, they set it at a 8.7 twist for the heavies. I have also heard of some people run 8 twist to stabilize some of the 190s out there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.</div></div>
24-26 is what most people get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
</div></div> The 270/300 7WSMs have longer necks, giving it better throat life, in theory. Speeds are about the same from what I have seen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
</div></div>
I think barrel life of the 7WSM is grossly overrated. I have heard everything from 800-2k rounds for the barrel. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in terms of accuracy. Is it going to be shooting bench rest groups at 100 yards with 1k rounds through it? Probably not. But you are not going to build on that caliber to shoot 100 yards, as many hiders only seem to shoot. There are several well known smiths on the hide that have gotten over 2k rounds through their plane jane 7WSM. I pulled my last barrel at 3300 rounds because it was grouping on paper at 300. Other Hide members can attest to, it had no problems tearing up steel at 600 yards at the 3000 round mark through the barrel. It could hold at least 1 MOA with 3k rounds through her.
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?
<span style="color: #3333FF">Here is a video of Skyking shooting his 7WSM out to 1400m with a 1:8.7" twist barrel. And I have talked to Wild Bill (Aussie) LR competition shooter (he shoots 7SAUM) and he has told me he as never needed more than 1:9" twist on his 7mm barrels. </span>
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
<span style="color: #3333FF"> Here is a link to a 7/300wsm that set the UK 1000m record. The longer throat gives you greater flexibility in bullet seating. With a long neck you can set the throat so the long 180gr VLDs are above the neck shoulder junction, yet you can still seat shorter hunting bullets close to the lands. Additionally, long case necks, some believe, cause less throat erosion than shorter necks. That's not "hard science" but it is certainly a view shared by many experienced shooters. The long neck is one reason many varminters favor the 6mm Remington over the .243 Winchester. Also the 7SAUM has a longer neck than the wild cats mentioned. </span>
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
<span style="color: #3333FF">The 7mm SAUM case holds 7.4 grains less powder than the 7mm WSM, but the 7mm SAUM has proven to be more efficient than the WSM. This means you can almost match the velocities of the 7mm WSM (with the same bullets) using slightly less powder. Using identical powders and the same bullets, you can match "book load" velocities with about 7% less powder. Short Magnums are "overbore" cases with notoriously short barrel lives. Burning less powder should give the 7mm SAUM a barrel-life advantage over the 7mm WSM also the longer neck should add to more barrel/throat life, and of course, the SAUM costs a bit less to feed. Plus powder charge weight figures into felt recoil, so the 7mm SAUM will exhibit less recoil than a 7mm WSM running the same bullet at the same speed. Something else to consider is salt bath nitriding to preserve barrel/throat life, I wouldn't suggest nitriding your action as it can damage heat treated metal. Here is a link to Skykings post, he is working on nitriding his new 7 SAUM AI barrel.
Another feature of the SAUM that aids accuracy is % of case capacity used. With moderate to hot loads the SAUM is at 90%+ (WSM normally sits in the 80s) powder capacity, less empty space leads to more consistency and consistency leads to accuracy. And if you plan to dial the 7wsm back to save barrel/throat life you will be leaving even more empty space than normal, giving the possibility of inconsistency. </span>
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
</div></div>
Just my two Lincolns
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe some pertinent questions should be put here?
Im in the process of gearing up for a Short Mag chambering in a switch barrel short action M2008. I have my heart almost set on 7WSM, but a few fine details are escaping me. The rifle isnt going to be used in anything but casual steel/paper.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
First up is barrel details, specificly twist rate. 6mmbr.com doesnt really delve into recommended rates for 180 VLD's, but BergerBullets.com recoomends 1-9" or faster. I dont plan on pushing bullets to the absolute brink, but if I need to, to get to 1,700 yards +, and presumably 3K FPS +, is over stabilization going to be an issue? Im sure I can get as specific a twist rate as I need from any of the predominate barrel MFG's. A 3-Groove would be nice, might yeild a little more barrel life?
<span style="color: #3333FF">Here is a video of Skyking shooting his 7WSM out to 1400m with a 1:8.7" twist barrel. And I have talked to Wild Bill (Aussie) LR competition shooter (he shoots 7SAUM) and he has told me he as never needed more than 1:9" twist on his 7mm barrels. </span>
As far as length, there isnt much sense in my mind in chopping the tube short, and I would not be above going longer than 26" to retain velocity and be able to drop down my powder charge a bit to preserve the throat, and have the ability to set back a few times.
My biggest blank... A 7mmWSM, a 7/300WSM or a 7/270WSM? Extra case capacity of a true WSM doesnt really seem like its needed does it? I mean, does a 7/270 or 7/300 NEED more case capacity with 180 VLD's at 1000-1700? Also, I have the capability to neck up or down, turn necks, anneal, so on and so on, so a true 7WSM with processed Win. brass, in a chamber throated specificly for 180's shouldnt need a longer neck of the wildcat, right? Cheaper brass, cheaper dies, whats not to like?
<span style="color: #3333FF"> Here is a link to a 7/300wsm that set the UK 1000m record. The longer throat gives you greater flexibility in bullet seating. With a long neck you can set the throat so the long 180gr VLDs are above the neck shoulder junction, yet you can still seat shorter hunting bullets close to the lands. Additionally, long case necks, some believe, cause less throat erosion than shorter necks. That's not "hard science" but it is certainly a view shared by many experienced shooters. The long neck is one reason many varminters favor the 6mm Remington over the .243 Winchester. Also the 7SAUM has a longer neck than the wild cats mentioned. </span>
My last concern is preservation of barrel life. Noone wants to set back after 1K rounds. I would go with one chambering over another if the throat was concidered to last any appreciable amount longer....Maybe thats where a longer neck or a wild-cat would prove its worth? Or a SAUM would prove its worth? Whatever I decided to go with, I would probably load it mild not to burn the barrel out over night.
<span style="color: #3333FF">The 7mm SAUM case holds 7.4 grains less powder than the 7mm WSM, but the 7mm SAUM has proven to be more efficient than the WSM. This means you can almost match the velocities of the 7mm WSM (with the same bullets) using slightly less powder. Using identical powders and the same bullets, you can match "book load" velocities with about 7% less powder. Short Magnums are "overbore" cases with notoriously short barrel lives. Burning less powder should give the 7mm SAUM a barrel-life advantage over the 7mm WSM also the longer neck should add to more barrel/throat life, and of course, the SAUM costs a bit less to feed. Plus powder charge weight figures into felt recoil, so the 7mm SAUM will exhibit less recoil than a 7mm WSM running the same bullet at the same speed. Something else to consider is salt bath nitriding to preserve barrel/throat life, I wouldn't suggest nitriding your action as it can damage heat treated metal. Here is a link to Skykings post, he is working on nitriding his new 7 SAUM AI barrel.
Another feature of the SAUM that aids accuracy is % of case capacity used. With moderate to hot loads the SAUM is at 90%+ (WSM normally sits in the 80s) powder capacity, less empty space leads to more consistency and consistency leads to accuracy. And if you plan to dial the 7wsm back to save barrel/throat life you will be leaving even more empty space than normal, giving the possibility of inconsistency. </span>
Any thoughts or guidance on these issues?
</div></div>
Just my two Lincolns
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
Re: 7MM WSM
Goatphius,
I was just looking up the two posts with videos of Skyking shooting out to 1400 and 2000 yards. Great posts and videos. Looks like you beat me to it with the 1400 yard video, but I'll add the link to the 2000 yard video.
Link to the 2000 yard video:
<span style="color: #FF0000">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...069#Post2066069</span>
Goatphius,
I was just looking up the two posts with videos of Skyking shooting out to 1400 and 2000 yards. Great posts and videos. Looks like you beat me to it with the 1400 yard video, but I'll add the link to the 2000 yard video.
Link to the 2000 yard video:
<span style="color: #FF0000">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...069#Post2066069</span>
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trpr154</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goatphius,
I was just looking up the two posts with videos of Skyking shooting out to 1400 and 2000 yards. Great posts and videos. Looks like you beat me to it with the 1400 yard video, but I'll add the link to the 2000 yard video.
Link to the 2000 yard video:
<span style="color: #FF0000">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...069#Post2066069</span></div></div>
Skyking's 7wsm is a damn rail spike driver. Camera guy did a great job picking up the bullet trace. He just built a 7 SAUM AI rig; right now he is waiting for his barrel to be nitrided, and then he's going to start on load development. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the performance compares to his 7wsm.
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trpr154</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goatphius,
I was just looking up the two posts with videos of Skyking shooting out to 1400 and 2000 yards. Great posts and videos. Looks like you beat me to it with the 1400 yard video, but I'll add the link to the 2000 yard video.
Link to the 2000 yard video:
<span style="color: #FF0000">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...069#Post2066069</span></div></div>
Skyking's 7wsm is a damn rail spike driver. Camera guy did a great job picking up the bullet trace. He just built a 7 SAUM AI rig; right now he is waiting for his barrel to be nitrided, and then he's going to start on load development. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the performance compares to his 7wsm.
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if you plan to dial the 7wsm back to save barrel/throat life you will be leaving even more empty space than normal, giving the possibility of inconsistency.</div></div>
Thats actualy a pretty good point you have there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if you plan to dial the 7wsm back to save barrel/throat life you will be leaving even more empty space than normal, giving the possibility of inconsistency.</div></div>
Thats actualy a pretty good point you have there.
Re: 7MM WSM
I've been shooting a 7wsm for most of this year off and on. Built on a rem short acion running alpha mags, 162's, 1-9 twist, going about 3050 fps. It groups very nice, shoots flat as can be, i've only been able to shoot it out to 1100 yds but it does very nicely in the wind. If you are shooting paper or steel under 600 yds, it's kinda like fishing with dynamite, a little overkill. And powder, it takes a lot, figure 65 to 70 grains of whatever you are using. I'ts not as much fun to shoot a lot of compared to a slower caliber, I ended up putting a brake on mine. I shoot a 260 a lot on the shorter ranges, but if you want to reach and touch something, that 7 will do it!
I've been shooting a 7wsm for most of this year off and on. Built on a rem short acion running alpha mags, 162's, 1-9 twist, going about 3050 fps. It groups very nice, shoots flat as can be, i've only been able to shoot it out to 1100 yds but it does very nicely in the wind. If you are shooting paper or steel under 600 yds, it's kinda like fishing with dynamite, a little overkill. And powder, it takes a lot, figure 65 to 70 grains of whatever you are using. I'ts not as much fun to shoot a lot of compared to a slower caliber, I ended up putting a brake on mine. I shoot a 260 a lot on the shorter ranges, but if you want to reach and touch something, that 7 will do it!
Re: 7MM WSM
Goatphius,
Did you decide on which 7WSM vs. SAUM? I decided to go with 7WSM, as it has a lot more factory rifles chambered in that, plus brass is more readily available. The Nosler SAUM brass is hard to find, looking at the websites, they are always out of stock. Plus, 7WSM brass is cheaper and if you weight sort the consistency is good.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
I consider that as well, but figured that those distances, I want the smoothest trigger possible, and no matter how good the DTA trigger is, it won't be as good as a standard non-bullpup trigger. Plus, if you change out your barrels, even though POI is supposed to be preserved, it won't be exact at those distances.
I spoke to my smith, and decided to go with 1 in 8.5 twist and 28" to maximize velocity, and since I'm planning to shoot the 180grs almost exclusively. Going with Alpha mag in short action.
I'm nitriding my barrel as well, but as a reminder to break it in before coating.
Goatphius,
Did you decide on which 7WSM vs. SAUM? I decided to go with 7WSM, as it has a lot more factory rifles chambered in that, plus brass is more readily available. The Nosler SAUM brass is hard to find, looking at the websites, they are always out of stock. Plus, 7WSM brass is cheaper and if you weight sort the consistency is good.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
I consider that as well, but figured that those distances, I want the smoothest trigger possible, and no matter how good the DTA trigger is, it won't be as good as a standard non-bullpup trigger. Plus, if you change out your barrels, even though POI is supposed to be preserved, it won't be exact at those distances.
I spoke to my smith, and decided to go with 1 in 8.5 twist and 28" to maximize velocity, and since I'm planning to shoot the 180grs almost exclusively. Going with Alpha mag in short action.
I'm nitriding my barrel as well, but as a reminder to break it in before coating.
Re: 7MM WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goatphius,
Did you decide on which 7WSM vs. SAUM? I decided to go with 7WSM, as it has a lot more factory rifles chambered in that, plus brass is more readily available. The Nosler SAUM brass is hard to find, looking at the websites, they are always out of stock. Plus, 7WSM brass is cheaper and if you weight sort the consistency is good.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
I consider that as well, but figured that those distances, I want the smoothest trigger possible, and no matter how good the DTA trigger is, it won't be as good as a standard non-bullpup trigger. Plus, if you change out your barrels, even though POI is supposed to be preserved, it won't be exact at those distances.
I spoke to my smith, and decided to go with 1 in 8.5 twist and 28" to maximize velocity, and since I'm planning to shoot the 180grs almost exclusively. Going with Alpha mag in short action.
I'm nitriding my barrel as well, but as a reminder to break it in before coating.</div></div>
The amount of factory rifles doesn't concern me since I'm going custom -- market popularity doesn't denote superior performance. I understand the brass argument between the two and do agree that the WSM is easier to get brass for and that Win brass>Rem brass. But reguardless of which I get I'll be using Norma brass.
Between the 7WSM and the 7 SAUM:
- SAUM has longer neck = better barrel/throat life and more bullet seating options.
- 7.4gr less powder capacity but maintain same velocity = better barrel/throat life, less felt recoil because your burning less powder. And less money spent on powder.
- More inherent accuracy due to more consistent powder charges (less empty space = more consistency)
- Brass favors the WSM; Win brass>Rem brass, but Norma WSM=Norma SAUM
- WSM has the ability to push velocities higher, but with the current grade of 180gr high BC projectiles there is no need to go above 3050fps. Doing so threatens to push above the accuracy node and the WSM doesn't have enough ass to get the next node.
In my mind the question is 7 SAUM or the 7 SAUM-AI. I'm currently waiting for Skyking to get his SAUM-AI completed and to see what kind of performance increase it has over the SAUM/WSM. I don't enjoy fire forming rounds but you don't have to do it often if you maintain your brass.
As for the SRS, I understand your concern with the trigger. I have heard from some of the SRS shooters that the trigger is great once tuned, but agree that it will never (atleast not right now) be a Jewell. But I prefer some of the other features that the bullpup offers, i.e. balance, conversion changes, OAL length, and all around versatility.
I currently have a 26" .308 barrel that is nitrided and plan to do all of my future barrels. And yes to anyone looking into melonite/nitriding like vkc mentioned you need to break in the barrel before sending it in. To make sure all the burrs are gone.
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Goatphius,
Did you decide on which 7WSM vs. SAUM? I decided to go with 7WSM, as it has a lot more factory rifles chambered in that, plus brass is more readily available. The Nosler SAUM brass is hard to find, looking at the websites, they are always out of stock. Plus, 7WSM brass is cheaper and if you weight sort the consistency is good.
<span style="color: #3333FF">Something to consider if you are wanting a switch barrel rig is the DTA SRS. </span>
I consider that as well, but figured that those distances, I want the smoothest trigger possible, and no matter how good the DTA trigger is, it won't be as good as a standard non-bullpup trigger. Plus, if you change out your barrels, even though POI is supposed to be preserved, it won't be exact at those distances.
I spoke to my smith, and decided to go with 1 in 8.5 twist and 28" to maximize velocity, and since I'm planning to shoot the 180grs almost exclusively. Going with Alpha mag in short action.
I'm nitriding my barrel as well, but as a reminder to break it in before coating.</div></div>
The amount of factory rifles doesn't concern me since I'm going custom -- market popularity doesn't denote superior performance. I understand the brass argument between the two and do agree that the WSM is easier to get brass for and that Win brass>Rem brass. But reguardless of which I get I'll be using Norma brass.
Between the 7WSM and the 7 SAUM:
- SAUM has longer neck = better barrel/throat life and more bullet seating options.
- 7.4gr less powder capacity but maintain same velocity = better barrel/throat life, less felt recoil because your burning less powder. And less money spent on powder.
- More inherent accuracy due to more consistent powder charges (less empty space = more consistency)
- Brass favors the WSM; Win brass>Rem brass, but Norma WSM=Norma SAUM
- WSM has the ability to push velocities higher, but with the current grade of 180gr high BC projectiles there is no need to go above 3050fps. Doing so threatens to push above the accuracy node and the WSM doesn't have enough ass to get the next node.
In my mind the question is 7 SAUM or the 7 SAUM-AI. I'm currently waiting for Skyking to get his SAUM-AI completed and to see what kind of performance increase it has over the SAUM/WSM. I don't enjoy fire forming rounds but you don't have to do it often if you maintain your brass.
As for the SRS, I understand your concern with the trigger. I have heard from some of the SRS shooters that the trigger is great once tuned, but agree that it will never (atleast not right now) be a Jewell. But I prefer some of the other features that the bullpup offers, i.e. balance, conversion changes, OAL length, and all around versatility.
I currently have a 26" .308 barrel that is nitrided and plan to do all of my future barrels. And yes to anyone looking into melonite/nitriding like vkc mentioned you need to break in the barrel before sending it in. To make sure all the burrs are gone.
Keep your powder dry,
Goat
Re: 7MM WSM
I'm getting a custom as well, so factory rifles don't matter to me for that aspect. But I do think that the amount of factory rifles matter in the fact that the more factory rifles, the easier it is to get brass, reloading supplies, etc.
I completely agree with your other points. But for a SAUM-AI, if you have to fire form your brass, that will cut down the barrel life significantly.
How much difference is there with barrel life between WSM & SAUM? Maybe 10%, to me not enough to make a difference.
From your reply, it sounds like you quoted the 6mmBR website.
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7SAUM
I think 7mm WSM vs. SAUM is akin to the 260rem vs. 6.5 Creedmoor, or other similar caliber comparisons. Splitting hairs, both have good and bad points.
For me it came down to brass, components by multiple/more companies, reloading supplies, and longer track record.
I'm getting a custom as well, so factory rifles don't matter to me for that aspect. But I do think that the amount of factory rifles matter in the fact that the more factory rifles, the easier it is to get brass, reloading supplies, etc.
I completely agree with your other points. But for a SAUM-AI, if you have to fire form your brass, that will cut down the barrel life significantly.
How much difference is there with barrel life between WSM & SAUM? Maybe 10%, to me not enough to make a difference.
From your reply, it sounds like you quoted the 6mmBR website.
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7SAUM
I think 7mm WSM vs. SAUM is akin to the 260rem vs. 6.5 Creedmoor, or other similar caliber comparisons. Splitting hairs, both have good and bad points.
For me it came down to brass, components by multiple/more companies, reloading supplies, and longer track record.
