I picked up a Rem 700 in 8mm a few years back for elk but lately have been thinking of dropping it into a AI stock and modding it. However it seems from reading some other threads there is not a lot of target type bullets available for 8mm. Would I be wasting my time?
- Thread starter 100meterpeter
- Start date
It's not a very common caliber. It's great for hunting elk, moose, etc., but other options are better suited for tactical type target shooting. If it was me, I would leave it alone. If I had to mess with it, I would rebarrel it in another caliber (e.g., 300 RUM, 300 Win Mag, or 7mm Rem Mag).
I have the same gun, but mine has a broken trigger guard. Great Gun I have a 6mm,7mm,and the 8mm. Ammo is hard to find and costly and there is not much variation on bullet weight. I say keep it stock and wear it out and then rebarrel it
^^This.
[MENTION=85282]100meterpeter[/MENTION], I'll let you take a look at some ballistics data I crunched and you can decide for yourself.
I assumed the following:
8mm Rem Mag using 200 SMKs at 3000 fps
7mm Rem Mag using 180 Berger VLDs at 3000 fps
300 Win Mag using 230 Berger OTMs at 2800 fps
(All used the same environmental data, but FWIW, I assumed 40% humidity, 40 F, 30mmHG, and 4000 ft)
I ran the numbers to just over a mile (1,700 yds)
Here are the results:
In terms of drop, 7mm is best but the divergence doesn't appreciably start until after 700 yards. The 300 Win Mag begins to outperform the 8mm after 1200 yds. After 1400 yards the 8mm begins to nose dive (5 mils of elevation difference between the 7mm and 8mm at 1700 yards).
In terms of wind, the 300 Win Mag and 7mm computed the exact same results and both outperform the 8mm. The divergence becomes noticeable at ~ 400 yards. At 800 yards, it is 0.5 mils and at 1700 yards it's 1.5 mils.
In terms of impact energy, the 300 Win Mag performs best over the entire range. If we assume that 1500 ft-lbs is needed to take down an elk, then the 800 Rem Mag is good until ~ 600 yards, the 7mm is good until ~ 900 yards, and the 300 Win Mag is good until ~ 1100 yards. The 7mm Rem Mag overtakes the 8mm after ~ 500 yards.
I didn't bother calculating felt recoil, but the 7mm should kick the least (I don't think any of them would feel good when shot from a light rifle).
Overall, the 8mm doesn't perform too badly with a 200 SMK launched at 3000 fps, especially inside 1000 yards. The data probably shows why many choose to utilize either the 7mm or 300 Win Mag if building a rig from the ground up. If you want to drop it in a chassis to make it more fun and enjoyable to shoot, go for it. Looks like George's suggestion of the 200 SMK will definitely get you in the game. When the barrel burns up, I suggest using the 7mm Rem mag with a 180 VLD (at least, that's what I would do).
Hope this helps you decide what to do.
I assumed the following:
8mm Rem Mag using 200 SMKs at 3000 fps
7mm Rem Mag using 180 Berger VLDs at 3000 fps
300 Win Mag using 230 Berger OTMs at 2800 fps
(All used the same environmental data, but FWIW, I assumed 40% humidity, 40 F, 30mmHG, and 4000 ft)
I ran the numbers to just over a mile (1,700 yds)
Here are the results:
In terms of drop, 7mm is best but the divergence doesn't appreciably start until after 700 yards. The 300 Win Mag begins to outperform the 8mm after 1200 yds. After 1400 yards the 8mm begins to nose dive (5 mils of elevation difference between the 7mm and 8mm at 1700 yards).
In terms of wind, the 300 Win Mag and 7mm computed the exact same results and both outperform the 8mm. The divergence becomes noticeable at ~ 400 yards. At 800 yards, it is 0.5 mils and at 1700 yards it's 1.5 mils.
In terms of impact energy, the 300 Win Mag performs best over the entire range. If we assume that 1500 ft-lbs is needed to take down an elk, then the 800 Rem Mag is good until ~ 600 yards, the 7mm is good until ~ 900 yards, and the 300 Win Mag is good until ~ 1100 yards. The 7mm Rem Mag overtakes the 8mm after ~ 500 yards.
I didn't bother calculating felt recoil, but the 7mm should kick the least (I don't think any of them would feel good when shot from a light rifle).
Overall, the 8mm doesn't perform too badly with a 200 SMK launched at 3000 fps, especially inside 1000 yards. The data probably shows why many choose to utilize either the 7mm or 300 Win Mag if building a rig from the ground up. If you want to drop it in a chassis to make it more fun and enjoyable to shoot, go for it. Looks like George's suggestion of the 200 SMK will definitely get you in the game. When the barrel burns up, I suggest using the 7mm Rem mag with a 180 VLD (at least, that's what I would do).
Hope this helps you decide what to do.
Awesome! Thank you for the cool stats. Would I be able to convert this 8mm action to 7mm?
You may want to consider before "modding" what you have. The rifle appears to be in excellent condition as is, there a few rifle loonies out there that covet exactly what you have now.
Might be better to sell it over on the 24hour campfire forums and pick yourself up a donor action if you are desiring a different chambering, I would expect you could sell what you have for $800 to $1,000.
That being said your rifle would be an easy conversion to a 7mm belted mag or the 300 WM.
Btw the 8mm Rem Mag is an absolute elk hammer with the 200 grainers.
Might be better to sell it over on the 24hour campfire forums and pick yourself up a donor action if you are desiring a different chambering, I would expect you could sell what you have for $800 to $1,000.
That being said your rifle would be an easy conversion to a 7mm belted mag or the 300 WM.
Btw the 8mm Rem Mag is an absolute elk hammer with the 200 grainers.
I am really suprised by the 300 mag. I guess i will try and find an action and start my project. I like the Surgeon actions, but those are more rare than an honest politician. Well, not that rare!
[MENTION=85282]100meterpeter[/MENTION], to convert this gun to a 7mm you will need to do the following:
- buy a 7mm barrel with a twist capable of handling the 180 Bergers. Look at Bugholes.com for something. The barrel will need to fit in whatever stock you decide to put into.
- send the barreled action off to a gunsmith for installation. GAP, PCR, and Chad Dixon excel at this kind of work. Tell them you want it throated for the 180 VLDs (or whatever bullet you want to use)
Also, you'll probably want to tune the trigger and get an oversized recoil lug; perhaps get an oversize bolt handle too and muzzle brake. If you want to drop it into an AICS chassis, make sure that you get a long action version. The 7mm Rem Mag cases will fit in the 300 WM magazines.
This would be a relatively expensive endeavor, which is why I recommended leaving it as is and why George recommended the 200gr SMKs.
I agree. I will leave it and build a 300. I am thinking of getting a Templar action to start with if those are even available.
If you like Surgeons, you can always just buy a rifle from them. Depending on the configuration you want, they can build one for you fairly quickly. If you want just a bare receiver to build off, maybe you'll have some luck a year from now.
If you're set on building a magnum rifle, you have a good receiver with the 8mm. Spend some time collecting the parts you need and send it all in for assembly next year after hunting season is over. By supplying your own receiver, you'll save a good chunk of change on your build.
Ive got several 700 trigger guards of various configurations. Let me know what you need and if I have the right one, its yours.
The last 4 times I have tried to go to 24hour campfire, my malicious malware alarm goes off on my computer. I will be staying away from that one. I would probably just collect up the goods I will need and convert what I have. I will call some of the builders that LCDR JGB recommended and see about pricing and wait times. Thanks you guys.
Man, I really wish I owned an 8mm Rem Mag (or it's siblings; 7mm STW -or- 6.5mm STW)
I plan on building a 8mm mag off of a zastava Mauser action in the near future. Always wanted one, Craig boddington had a good article on them a couple years ago.
The big problem here is not the cartridges capability. The comparison that LCDR gave you isn't really an apples to apples comparison. Then again, it is in the sense that's what you can get in each caliber. The 7mm and .30 cal run pretty close now (albeit the .30 has to add 50 gr. to keep up with the 7mm).
Super high BC bullets aren't made for the 8mm's anymore. Being that a bullet is the final component that is going to buck the wind, an inferior ballistic bullet won't do what a superior ballistic bullet can even if it leaves the muzzle a couple hundred FPS faster.
Another bullet you might try is Sierra's 220 gr. bullet. It has a slightly better BC than the 200 match.
In the end you're not fighting ability, you're fighting availability.
Super high BC bullets aren't made for the 8mm's anymore. Being that a bullet is the final component that is going to buck the wind, an inferior ballistic bullet won't do what a superior ballistic bullet can even if it leaves the muzzle a couple hundred FPS faster.
Another bullet you might try is Sierra's 220 gr. bullet. It has a slightly better BC than the 200 match.
In the end you're not fighting ability, you're fighting availability.
Very good point sandwarrior. Bullet selection kept me away from the 8mm mag for years but now with hornady, sierra, nosler and Barnes making match grade bullets and excellent hunting bullets I think its finally time to pull the trigger on this cartridge. Sure the 7mm mag and 300 mag might do just as good of a job with a much larger bullet selection, but what's the fun in not trying new stuff?
My comparison is to show the OP how these three big magnums stack up against each other more or less "best case." As you rightly say, the handicap the 8mm has is that there isn't much to choose from in the way of high BC bullets. (I've always thought the same for the 270 Win as well). If you're willing to shoot a magnum, 30 cal will always rule the roost in available options and the 8mm will always lose. I can go to any store and buy ammo for 300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag; 8mm is pretty much the providence of hand loaders.
Please don't read me as pooh-poohing this caliber though. I wrote above that it holds it own against the other calibers with superior bullets inside 600 yards. My grandfather absolutely raved about it when he was alive and must have killed about 30 mule deer/elk/caribou/moose with one. As a hunting rifle in the hands of a hand loader, it's a wonderful rifle. For someone that is trying to do more, the 7mm or 300 Win Mag offer more flexibility and performance.
It would be interesting to see how the 8mm could stack up with a better BC bullet, e.g., something 250gr+.
I called GA Precision and left them a message about what I wanted to do and they got back to me. They really know their stuff. It would be a lot cheaper to convert my action and do all the fun stuff to it through GA then it would be to buy a complete "custom" rifle. Reguardless of all three examples using different bullet weights, LCDR JGB,s specs, in my opinion, shows how impressive the 300 mag really is using a heavier projectile even. As far as my 8mm, I am hesitant to tear it apart because like several of you have said I should leave this rifle alone. I just really dont like the look and feel of traditional hunting rifles. I prefer to hunt with a tactical heavier rifle in the mountains because I know what it is going to do every time I shoot it. I am really thinking of a 5r milspec in 300mag and dropping it into an AICS. I would spend about the same money. Then later on have it accurized if it needs it. Decisions decisions.
I didn't read you as pooh-poohing the cartridge. You did show the best bullets each can get right now. Thus my comment it is the best 'apples to apples' you're going to get in comparison. It can be a phenominal cartridge if we could ever get 240 gr. match bullets back in production. I doubt that will ever happen though. Those bullets were optimized for the standard Mauser twist of 1-9.44" btw. That said, those older match bullets probably wouldn't hold up against modern VLD type bullets. Too short of ogive. One other thing, Remington and other modern manufacturers used a 1-10" twist. So, unless that also got bumped back to original or 1-9" it would be hard to optimize a bullet for the 8mm caliber.
I personally love the 8mm, but don't see American manufacturers taking it seriously. In the midst of the 'new cartridge' race Winchester introduced the .325 WSM. An 8mm entrant into the short-mag wars. But they did it just like everybody else without optimizing the cartridge. So, the exercise was almost pointless. I may have mentioned, the whole thing that intrigues me about 8mm is the WWII Mauser version. Where the Germans went back to a heavier bullet and made it stable from an 8x57 out to 2500m. While it was intended to be the 'super round' coming out of a machine gun, it really served as a sniper round even better.
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My grandfather had an 8mm Remington Magnum that he sold years ago. Last year after he passed I had the sad duty to handle his estate. Among his reloading stuff I found 67 new, never fired, factory primed shells. These shells are bright and clean inside. I have no use for them. If anyone wants them I will sell them at a good price.
