A hell of a time with OAL!

[Keith Johns]

I need some help.

I'm shooting a .243 win. Using Winchester brass trimmed to 2.030". My desired OAL with 95gr VLDs is 2.830"

I'm getting variances in OAL every time I work brass. I'll load 50 or so, and shoot. Once I work the brass and go to load more, I have to adjust my die for OAL to get it at 2.830" again. Once I adjust it for the new lot of brass, it stays pretty close to 2.830". Why does my OAL change every time I work brass???
AND, even after I re-adjust it to be at 2.830", it's still very inconsistent.

Only thing I can think of is my neck tension is changing from loading to loading. I dont know whether to buy a new sizing die, or seating die.

Can neck tension change OAL from round to round with a standard seating die???

I'm using Redding standard dies. I never had this problem before but I've always used their competition Micrometer dies.

I'm just measuring to tip, so I expect some variances in OAL since I'm not measuring to ogive. But I'm getting variances of up to 40 thou.

Thanks for any advice/help.

Let me know if you need more info or if I left something out

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Like I said all I can think of being wrong is neck tension varying, or my dies are set up wrong. But I've re-set them up several times with the same results. I've never had this problem before with any other dies or any other rifle.

 

[doc76251]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

If you can measure the ogive of the rounds. Depending on the mfg some boolets will vary wildly in length. If you can't measure the ogive measure each bullet befor you seat it and see if there is a corrolation to the OAL measurements.

It might be that your die is seating on the ogive not the tip.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

I understand there are variances in OAL of bullets and that you should always measure to ogive. But that's not the problem. I'm getting variances too big to be that.
My OAL is changing every time I work brass

 

[fx77]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Check a number of bulltes before seating
Disassemble a few rounds after seating
See if there is consistency to the bullet length
Accuracy is greater measuring at ogive, but if you are using a magazine, the base to tip is more important
If there is variation in the quality of the unloaded bullets, consider meplat trimming.

 

[308isgreat]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

If you're pretty sure that it's neck tension doing this, here's something to try. Measure your all of your bullet lengths (from base to tip) and write these measurements down. Find 5-10 that are EXACTLY the same length and use them to load up any of the cases you're having trouble with and then post your results.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Something else to think about, maybe your shellholder and top of ram need a good cleaning. If it's getting cruddy, could introduce some inconsistencies.

 

[DMS]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

A few things:
1. Yes, you will see variations of .040 in bullet length. Take a handful and check them before you seat them.
2. You may have to change your die set-up because the lock ring moves and/or your not tightening them down the same. FWIW, Redding makes great dies, but their lock rings are crap and tend to move. Get some Forster or Honady lock rings and a mag tube wrench from Brownell's and these problems go away.
3. Not being able to figure out basic reloading doesn't instill comfidence in "precisiongunmithing".

Edited for spelling.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!


I considered all the things stated above. This isn't a recently occuring problem. I've had this problem the entire time I've owned this die set-up. I haven't had this problem with any other dies. I really think it's my sizing die but I'd hate to buy a new one for nothin.

I just measured 10 bullets and they were all within 5 thou of each other. If YOUR bullets OAL vary 40 thou, what kind of bullets are you using???

 

[dmgreene]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

AZ are these compressed loads? If they are the powder could be forcing the bullets back out. Second thing is the seating stem. I had the same problem with VLD style bullets before. The problem was that stem was not drilled deep enough to press on the ogive of the bullet, instead it was actually pressing on the tip of bullet. This was giving about .015" variances if IIRC. I drilled the seating stem a little deeper and it solved the problem.

David

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A few things:

3. Not being able to figure out basic reloading doesn't instill comfidence in "precisiongunmithing".

Edited for spelling. </div></div>

At least you almost spelled everything right that time

J/k

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AZ are these compressed loads? If they are the powder could be forcing the bullets back out. Second thing is the seating stem. I had the same problem with VLD style bullets before. The problem was that stem was not drilled deep enough to press on the ogive of the bullet, instead it was actually pressing on the tip of bullet. This was giving about .015" variances if IIRC. I drilled the seating stem a little deeper and it solved the problem.

David </div></div>

Thats makes a lot of sense.. about the seating stem. If I was getting variances of 10-20 thou I'd think that may be it. But it's totally clean, everything is. And the bullets OAL is consistant enough that the loaded rounds shouldnt be as far off as they are.

And once I re-adjust the die it's pretty good. The OAL changes when I start using a new lot of brass, or after I re-size the lot of brass. So I really think it has something to do with brass.


No they arent even close to compressed loads.

 

[308isgreat]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I just measured 10 bullets and they were all within 5 thou of each other. If YOUR bullets OAL vary 40 thou, what kind of bullets are you using??? </div></div>

I wanted you to measure the entire lot of bullets. If any of the bullets showed that kind of variation in length then the problem would be solved.

The reason I capitalized "EXACTLY" was to put emphasis on the fact that I needed you to seat all 10 bullets the same length, then see what happens. If the 10 bullets are all the exact same length and you still have the problem, then it's either the brass or the seater die.

There is a method to my madness..........hope this clears it up!

BTW I've never had bullets vary in length by 40 thousandths

 

[808Huntress]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Keith,

My guess would be as you suspect, Neck Tension. Ive had it happen before and neck tension was the reason but to be honest I never had any that went 40 thou. difference.

Do you notice any dfference when seating your bullets? I can usually tell when a bullet is easier or harder to seat than another.

How many times has the brass been loaded? The more you load the brass the more you work the brass which can cause this issue.

Maybe you can try annealing your brass and see if this helps.

Hope you get it figured out, BTW hope to call you soon regarding a bolt handle install.

Take it easy and Good Shooting!!!

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Again theyre arent all varying 40 thou. The OAL changes just between new lots of brass. It isn't changing from round to round


And yes, some do seem easier to seat than others. I reeeally think it's my sizing die. I'm F/L resizing btw

It's happened about 5 times now, as I've worked about 8 different lots of brass. It's happened about 5 out of 8 times.

I will measure my brass and bullets carefully on my next loading to make sure all are consistant. Then load and go from there. I see myself buying a new sizing die. And I'll look at the seater to make sure the seating stem isnt hitting the tip of the bullet

 

[dmgreene]

Re: A hell of a time with OAL!

Have you checked the neck diameter after resizing? If your necks are .002" smaller in diameter than loaded rounds then you should have plenty of neck tension. If its not at least .001" smaller check and make sure the expander is not over sized.

David