A little help with bore-scope interpretation ...

[rustyinbend]

Wow ... clean it with "this", clean it with "that", don't use "this", don't use "that", looks good - just shoot it, looks awful - replace it, clean it better, stop cleaning it, use a patch, use a brush, Lasso will save it, Lasso is evil ... DAMN I love you guys, but holy-crap ... this place has more diversity than a Progressive Democrat Convention in downtown Chicago. LOL

After soaking and scrubbing the best I possibly could ... I'm just gonna go shoot the damn thing. If it works, I'll keep shooting it until it doesn't. If it shoots badly, I'll stuff it in the safe and rebarrel when my McGowen barrel arrives in a few months. I feel like at this point, I've cleaned to the level of my skills and materials. If it sucks ... screw it ... it can sit in the safe and wait for a new barrel. Like I said ... I have a 300-WM Barrett MRAD that's a damn fine substitute for this MPA until the new barrel arrives. This is a nice "1st World Problem" to have ... eh?

 

[Huskydriver]

Wow ... clean it with "this", clean it with "that", don't use "this", don't use "that", looks good - just shoot it, looks awful - replace it, clean it better, stop cleaning it, use a patch, use a brush, Lasso will save it, Lasso is evil ... DAMN I love you guys, but holy-crap ... this place has more diversity than a Progressive Democrat Convention in downtown Chicago. LOL

After soaking and scrubbing the best I possibly could ... I'm just gonna go shoot the damn thing. If it works, I'll keep shooting it until it doesn't. If it shoots badly, I'll stuff it in the safe and rebarrel when my McGowen barrel arrives in a few months. I feel like at this point, I've cleaned to the level of my skills and materials. If it sucks ... screw it ... it can sit in the safe and wait for a new barrel. Like I said ... I have a 300-WM Barrett MRAD that's a damn fine substitute for this MPA until the new barrel arrives. This is a nice "1st World Problem" to have ... eh?

I mean it's an mrad.... Not an AI so it's kinda like a weak sauce substitute ymmv

 

[rustyinbend]

I mean it's an mrad.... Not an AI so it's kinda like a weak sauce substitute ymmv

If you think I'm getting dragged into a MRAD-vs-AI debate ... NFW buddy ...

 

[Huskydriver]

If you think I'm getting dragged into a MRAD-vs-AI debate ... NFW buddy ...

I mean you were also a Marine so being second at everything is looking like an obsession rofl

 

[Cascade Hemi]

You don't have much to lose using an abrasive paste if the barrel is shot out.

 

[Tokay444]

Wow ... clean it with "this", clean it with "that", don't use "this", don't use "that", looks good - just shoot it, looks awful - replace it, clean it better, stop cleaning it, use a patch, use a brush, Lasso will save it, Lasso is evil ... DAMN I love you guys, but holy-crap ... this place has more diversity than a Progressive Democrat Convention in downtown Chicago. LOL

After soaking and scrubbing the best I possibly could ... I'm just gonna go shoot the damn thing. If it works, I'll keep shooting it until it doesn't. If it shoots badly, I'll stuff it in the safe and rebarrel when my McGowen barrel arrives in a few months. I feel like at this point, I've cleaned to the level of my skills and materials. If it sucks ... screw it ... it can sit in the safe and wait for a new barrel. Like I said ... I have a 300-WM Barrett MRAD that's a damn fine substitute for this MPA until the new barrel arrives. This is a nice "1st World Problem" to have ... eh?

Iosso*

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Wow ... clean it with "this", clean it with "that", don't use "this", don't use "that", looks good - just shoot it, looks awful - replace it, clean it better, stop cleaning it, use a patch, use a brush, Lasso will save it, Lasso is evil ... DAMN I love you guys, but holy-crap ... this place has more diversity than a Progressive Democrat Convention in downtown Chicago. LOL

After soaking and scrubbing the best I possibly could ... I'm just gonna go shoot the damn thing. If it works, I'll keep shooting it until it doesn't. If it shoots badly, I'll stuff it in the safe and rebarrel when my McGowen barrel arrives in a few months. I feel like at this point, I've cleaned to the level of my skills and materials. If it sucks ... screw it ... it can sit in the safe and wait for a new barrel. Like I said ... I have a 300-WM Barrett MRAD that's a damn fine substitute for this MPA until the new barrel arrives. This is a nice "1st World Problem" to have ... eh?

Never read a cleaning thread before, have you?

 

[Frank Green]

You don't have much to lose using an abrasive paste if the barrel is shot out.

That's true and I forgot to put that in there. If it is toast or close to being toast...you have nothing to lose! That way if you do wreck it....you won't be totally bummed out!

Just don't do it on a new barrel!

 

[Baron23]

I don't recommend using Iosso. For starters you use a brush with the Iosso/paste type cleaner and I'll guarantee bore damage especially to the lands. Will end up looking like this...

View attachment 7683331
I've seen barrels start to get damaged/shooting poorly with in 100 rounds.

Also ever wonder why when you use Iosso and similar abrasive cleaners the patches keep coming out really black in color? Your basically polishing the bore and also can be removing material. The bore too smooth will also lead to copper fouling and a loss in accuracy in as little as less than 20 rounds.

Yes every shooter cleans they're barrel differently and some shooters are more aggressive then others....there are a lot of variables involved.

If you have to use anything I would use JB Bore Compound or Rem. 40x cleaner (years ago the 40x cleaner use to be called Gold Medallion).
View attachment 7683332
View attachment 7683333

Again patches only and never with a brush. Make sure you get it all out with patches and solvent afterwards also. Again with the abrasive cleaners I feel at times shooters don't get them completely out of the bore of the barrel and then fire rounds down the bore....when this happens you might have well had rocks inside the barrel.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Wow, Frank....not sure how many times you have to say "don't u se abrasives...particularly with a brush" yet it still comes up on the regular as a recommendation.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Wow, Frank....not sure how many times you have to say "don't u se abrasives...particularly with a brush" yet it still comes up on the regular as a recommendation.

And yet top national shooters use abrasives with success. There's certainly a case to be made against abrasives but at some point you're going to want to remove carbon that won't come out with a patch and chemicals.

 

[ormandj]

And yet top national shooters use abrasives with success. There's certainly a case to be made against abrasives but at some point you're going to want to remove carbon that won't come out with a patch and chemicals.

I've never run into carbon that couldn't be removed chemically with a soak, patches, and jags, especially when the barrel hasn't been abused by lack of cleaning. Even then, I'm sure given enough time soaking in something like Bore Tech, you could break up a carbon ring with repeated soak and scrub cycles.

A lot of beliefs/processes/etc were determined before we had the options we do now, and "old habits die hard" as they say. As long as a carbon ring hasn't formed or the barrel hasn't gone 500 rounds between cleaning (often one in the same), properly sized jags and patches with C4 are going to get all the carbon out with a reasonable number of patches/passes, or at least I haven't seen a barrel yet I couldn't get shiny and new with a 100-200 round cleaning interval with just the Bore Tech C4/E combo depending on what projectiles I'm shooting. Going 500+ shots without a cleaning, and it's still doable, but there's a lot more work involved, and plugging the barrel and letting it soak becomes necessary. If you've built up a carbon ring, get ready.

 

[Frank Green]

And yet top national shooters use abrasives with success. There's certainly a case to be made against abrasives but at some point you're going to want to remove carbon that won't come out with a patch and chemicals.

I will say there is a time and place for them.....you just have to be careful of how you use them and what you use.

Everyone does/uses them differently. That's why you hear so many different views on them. Some use them with success and some not.

A brush and abrasive...like I said your asking for it.

I use JB (on a snug fitting patch only) when I start to feel a tight spot in the throat and or when the throat starts to get rough.

I'll use the 40x after each time I use Sweets.

But that's about it.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I will say there is a time and place for them.....you just have to be careful of how you use them and what you use.

Everyone does/uses them differently. That's why you hear so many different views on them. Some use them with success and some not.

A brush and abrasive...like I said your asking for it.

I use JB (on a snug fitting patch only) when I start to feel a tight spot in the throat and or when the throat starts to get rough.

I'll use the 40x after each time I use Sweets.

But that's about it.

If I were in your position I'd disclaim its use too. I could just imagine some jabroni using a power drill at 1000 rpm with the stuff. A little Iosso on a patch every 400 or 500 rounds works pretty well though.

 

[Frank Green]

If I were in your position I'd disclaim its use too. I could just imagine some jabroni using a power drill at 1000 rpm with the stuff. A little Iosso on a patch every 400 or 500 rounds works pretty well though.

We pretty much do. That's a issue on our end is we have no way of controlling what someone does to it or should I say how they clean etc...

Yes we have had plenty of shooters taking a wooden dowel or cleaning rod....chucking it up in a cordless drill and setting the drill to high speed and then putting even emery cloth on the end of the shaft to clean the carbon ring out of the throat.

The first guy I dealt with doing that complained to the gunsmith we had bad steel as it was laying burrs over in the throat, then blamed the gunsmith for using a bad chamber reamer when chambering his barrel. So after I and the gunsmith talked about it a couple of times and I begged him to get the barrels back from the guy so I could look at them (he did it to not one but three of them!) and not getting anywhere the gunsmith said, "I'll be seeing the shooter at the benchrest match in two weeks and that he would go over and talk to him. When he found him at the match he caught him red handed with the drill in his hand and doing it to another barrel! That's how the truth came out! Warranty denied!!!!

The kicker is this shooter has been/made the US National Team! How I don't know!

Can't make it up!

Later, Frank

 

[rustyinbend]

Just to be clear ... the recommendation is Iosso on a patch (not a brush), maybe 2x or 3x, and then a few dry patches, and then patch (not brush) until clean with Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover. Is that right? I have all that stuff, but I just want to make sure my process is solid.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Just to be clear ... the recommendation is Iosso on a patch (not a brush), maybe 2x or 3x, and then a few dry patches, and then patch (not brush) until clean with Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover. Is that right? I have all that stuff, but I just want to make sure my process is solid.

Don't tell Frank but I wrap a patch around a nylon brush and put a thin layer of Iosso on the patch. Gently work the patch down the barrel. Three patches total. Wet patch with alchohol to remove the paste between paste patches. You should feel the barrel smooth out. You don't need to over do it, a little goes a long way.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

We pretty much do. That's a issue on our end is we have no way of controlling what someone does to it or should I say how they clean etc...

Yes we have had plenty of shooters taking a wooden dowel or cleaning rod....chucking it up in a cordless drill and setting the drill to high speed and then putting even emery cloth on the end of the shaft to clean the carbon ring out of the throat.

The first guy I dealt with doing that complained to the gunsmith we had bad steel as it was laying burrs over in the throat, then blamed the gunsmith for using a bad chamber reamer when chambering his barrel. So after I and the gunsmith talked about it a couple of times and I begged him to get the barrels back from the guy so I could look at them (he did it to not one but three of them!) and not getting anywhere the gunsmith said, "I'll be seeing the shooter at the benchrest match in two weeks and that he would go over and talk to him. When he found him at the match he caught him red handed with the drill in his hand and doing it to another barrel! That's how the truth came out! Warranty denied!!!!

The kicker is this shooter has been/made the US National Team! How I don't know!

Can't make it up!

Later, Frank

To your point, enjoy! https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/stubborn-carbon-ring-removal.7088935/#post-9666204

 

[rustyinbend]

LAST UPDATE (before shooting) ...

I used Iosso, opting for the instructions on the label. Ran 3 Iosso patches slowly through the bore. Then I put Iosso on the Iosso-recommended nylon brush and did 10 cycles. A couple of dry patches, and then Bore Tech C4 until clean. Finished with a soaked patch of CLP, a few dry patches (totally clean), and done. Then I bore-scoped. Results ...

1. Bore "feels" much smoother when running a dry patch through ... a noticeable difference.
2. Throat looks similar, but seems slightly better.
3. 1-2 inches down the barrel seems cleaner but with no change in cracking.
4. Midway and just short of the muzzle looks better when compared side-by-side.

Time to shoot it, and see if the groups improve after a reasonable cold-bore and micro-crack-filling grace period.

Here are the post-Iosso pics for comparison:

At the throat ...

1-2 inches down the barrel ...

Halfway down the barrel ...

1-inch from the crown ...

 

[nn8734]

Good luck with it but I’d be prepared to pull and replace the barrel at this point. 1200-1400 rounds is when they start to go in the win mag. Even earlier (much earlier) if you like to hot rod the heavies.

if you don’t keep an exact round count log, I’d start with your next barrel.

 

[rustyinbend]

Good luck with it but I’d be prepared to pull and replace the barrel at this point. 1200-1400 rounds is when they start to go in the win mag. Even earlier (much earlier) if you like to hot rod the heavies.

if you don’t keep an exact round count log, I’d start with your next barrel.

Good advice. New barrel is on the way (8-10 weeks) from McGowen. Squeezing more life from this one was a pandemic side-project. Definitely need to start keeping track of my round-count.

 

[rustyinbend]

UPDATE ... and good news. Finally was able to get to the range, after soaking, scrubbing, Iossa, and several other gyrations to mega-clean the inside of this barrel. Put 50 rounds downrange of my best 300-WM hand-loads. All sub-or-near-sub-MOA. Tight groups, zero fliers. It would appear that my MPA barrel has come back to life, at least for now. Bore scope still doesn't look terrific down near the throat, but whatever was causing the huge groups and accuracy issues would appear to have been scrubbed out. New McGowan barrel still on the way, but it'll go on the shelf until needed. This has made a believer out of me for the concept of "super-soak/scrub" to bring an old barrel back to life.

 

[ormandj]

Stay on top of it with something like Boretech Eliminator and you’ll never have to worry about it again.

 

[AllenOne1]

UPDATE ... and good news. Finally was able to get to the range, after soaking, scrubbing, Iossa, and several other gyrations to mega-clean the inside of this barrel. Put 50 rounds downrange of my best 300-WM hand-loads. All sub-or-near-sub-MOA. Tight groups, zero fliers. It would appear that my MPA barrel has come back to life, at least for now. Bore scope still doesn't look terrific down near the throat, but whatever was causing the huge groups and accuracy issues would appear to have been scrubbed out. New McGowan barrel still on the way, but it'll go on the shelf until needed. This has made a believer out of me for the concept of "super-soak/scrub" to bring an old barrel back to life.

That is great news Rusty and a good lesson learned. I think the new cheap borescopes are going to change the way we think about barrel wear, cleaning and barrel life. In a good way.

 

[Tokay444]

You’re welcome.

 

[Supersubes]

UPDATE ... and good news. Finally was able to get to the range, after soaking, scrubbing, Iossa, and several other gyrations to mega-clean the inside of this barrel. Put 50 rounds downrange of my best 300-WM hand-loads. All sub-or-near-sub-MOA. Tight groups, zero fliers. It would appear that my MPA barrel has come back to life, at least for now. Bore scope still doesn't look terrific down near the throat, but whatever was causing the huge groups and accuracy issues would appear to have been scrubbed out. New McGowan barrel still on the way, but it'll go on the shelf until needed. This has made a believer out of me for the concept of "super-soak/scrub" to bring an old barrel back to life.

You should probably think about this a s different way. Do more thorough in-between cleanings, instead of having to take such extreme measures after it takes a shit.