** A Serious Warning ***

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Minuteman
    • Apr 12, 2001
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    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    #1
    If you post something illegal, you will get caught and you will be prosecuted with the help of the information you posted on this site. Without hesitation all your details will be turned over to the appropriate authorities.

    Every agency you can think of monitors this site and this is <span style="text-decoration: underline">"nothing new"</span> this is something that has been going on here for a very long time. So you better think before you say something stupid, or post about something that can be potentially seen as illegal.

    I don't want you on this site, and you will be removed from this site if you feel the only way to continue through life is being "anti" anything.

    This includes posting images of illegally modified weapons, hate speech, trying to sell something illegal, or even selling too much to skirt the laws, anything, if you cross the line and say it or post it, it will be flagged, I will get contacted and your records will be turned over. We cooperate 100% with authorities in these matters and have since this site started. Next week I have to testify to the records from this site on a case that started well over 5 years ago. Federally... so again, this is nothing new just a reminder.

    The current political climate is poison, if you want to add to this poison I am telling you now go some where else.

    If you're stupid you'll fall,
     
    #2
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    ban_them_all.jpg
     
    #5
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    My question is, "does snipers hide turn over information at the request of law enforcement or when subpoenaed to do so"?
    Not that I don't every governmental departments' discretion.......

    Just clarifying.....I've got no beef with cooperation in the prosecution of criminals, but I'm also kinda down with the United States Constitution, Amendment 5 in particular.
     
    #7
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    I would like to post a picture of my ass to show the government.

    I would tell the civil servants monitoring this site that there are many asses like it, but this one is mine.

    And you government civil servants can suck my ass.

    That's what I would tell them, if you would let me LL.

    I have no idea if that would be illegal.
     
    #8
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I confess....

    If banging and photographing naked fat women is wrong....

    I don't don't want to be right.

    </div></div>

    bah!!! thanks. i just spit coffee all over my laptop
     
    #9
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    Frank's got precisely the right slant on the subject.

    I sometimes shudder to think what this site would be like if he didn't.

    All those who feel this is unreasonable may form a line there on the right, and please be cautious about letting the door hit you in the butt on the way out; I'm absolutely positive you'll have no trouble finding a site whose policies suit you far, far better.

    Greg
     
    #11
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    If you have no idea what Frank is talking about-I would recommend some immediate current event studying.

    Public forum. NOTHING you post can be considered private. Don't post anything you wouldn't want to explain to a Federal Grand Jury.

    You'd be amazed a how many people lurk about on this site and don't register or post.

    We are very fortunate to be able to discuss our hobby on this site. Opinions on your gear and loads are one thing- using it as a soapbox for other topics shouldn't even be a consideration.

    Stupid is as stupid does. Don't ruin this site or Franks reputation. Warnings are just that. And they are posted to save you from yourself. The 1st amendment is no excuse nor is it a right to spread hate.

    I too back LL 100%.
     
    #12
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have no idea what Frank is talking about-I would recommend some immediate current event studying.

    Public forum. NOTHING you post can be considered private. Don't post anything you wouldn't want to explain to a Federal Grand Jury.

    You'd be amazed a how many people lurk about on this site and don't register or post.

    We are very fortunate to be able to discuss our hobby on this site. Opinions on your gear and loads are one thing- using it as a soapbox for other topics shouldn't even be a consideration.

    Stupid is as stupid does. Don't ruin this site or Franks reputation. Warnings are just that. And they are posted to save you from yourself. The 1st amendment is no excuse nor is it a right to spread hate.

    I too back LL 100%. </div></div>

    I'm with you on the public posting, my questions was more directed at the layers of the onion so to speak-PM content, registration info etc (regarding things that the member may have an implied sense of privacy with).

    The posting in the forum is a no-brainer. I get drawn into crap every now and then, but I usually am tempered by Frank's regulations.
     
    #13
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    Amen. We cant harbor anyone here that is willing to break the law. I love this site and dont want anything to happen to it or its patron members.

    We had a guy come in our local store about a year ago now with a illegally modified shogun. He had cut it down and tried to sell it to the store. His information was turned over to our local ATF agents. Case Closed.

    Thanks for doing everything you do Frank. We have to police our own as well around here.
     
    #14
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    I back Frank 53%. That's proportionally equivalent to 100% for a man his size.

    Seriously,
    It's a timely reminder.
    Reading between lines, we may have just lost a member or two for a LONG time.
     
    #15
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I back Frank 53%. That's proportionally equivalent to 100% for a man his size.
    </div></div>
    Dang it tucker now I need another keyboard
     
    #17
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 1st amendment is no excuse nor is it a right to spread hate.</div></div>

    I hate to break it to you, but you are wrong about that. The reason we follow Frank's rules isn't that the 1st Amendment doesn't protect our right to be hateful. We have to follow Frank's rules because otherwise he'll hit the ban button and we won't be able to contribute here anymore.

    If there was any doubt as to whether the 1st Amendment protects a right to spread hate, the Court settled that in RAV v. St. Paul . The 1A unquestionably protects hateful speech. Remember, the founding fathers themselves committed treason against the king by signing the Declaration of Independence. It is one of the most basic cornerstones of a free society to protect free speech--even that which is derogatory, degrading, hateful, racist, offensive, or blasphemous.

    If I were in Frank's shoes, I'd comply to the requirement of the law and no more.

    I'm not, so by continuing to post here (and in this thread especially), it is now clear that anything that is said that turns out to be illegal may result in that material being turned over to the government.

    All of this makes me very happy that I've shared nothing besides my personal opinions (which fortunately aren't illegal yet) and some reloading data and pictures of legally-owned things. God help the poor bastard who posts up something illegal here; I guess he'll find himself in the pokey.
     
    #18
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    I've been a pest to Frank for a long time. I aggrivate him every chance I get. But just to tell him, "Thanks for letting us have this place to hang out".

    All right, I'm a kiss a$$. No big deal to me. This is yet another time I am 100% behind Frank. I will apply rules to or ban whoever he tells me to.
     
    #19
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    I agree.

    I really think this is the best website on the net. The moderation is reasonable, the people are honest and up front with each other, and, of course, the information is great (while keeping bullshit to a minimum).
     
    #20
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I really think this is the best website on the net. </div></div>



    ehh........



    I got no place else to go....





    An-Officer-and-a-Gentleman-11.jpg
     
    #22
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    Desert, yeah couple things. Remember the guy who had 2 or 3 posts and posted that 22 that he hacked the stock up and put what looked like a coat hanger for a buttstock? He said somewhere in that thread that he had a "homemade suppressor" and then there are some other things that have happened long time ago.
     
    #23
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I really think this is the best website on the net. </div></div>



    ehh........



    I got no place else to go....





    An-Officer-and-a-Gentleman-11.jpg
    </div></div>

    Nice CKA

    N
     
    #25
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Desert, yeah couple things. Remember the guy who had 2 or 3 posts and posted that 22 that he hacked the stock up and put what looked like a coat hanger for a buttstock? He said somewhere in that thread that he had a "homemade suppressor" and then there are some other things that have happened long time ago. </div></div>

    Oh yes. thanks for reminding me Deadly. Like I have mentioned many times. There is just no cure for stupidity.
     
    #27
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***


    People for whatever reason feel that they are invisible when they are on the internet. They make asinine comments and do asinine things.

    In large part the site is very self governing and as such does not require excessive heavy handed approach. That being said I would argue that as a site we are under the microscope and anything that is said is for all purposes under significant public scrutiny (and we are arguably doing it right). As LL has said please do it right or do it somewhere else. If you don't know what right is, I would recommend that discression would be exercised and not post it.
     
    #28
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    As has been said here countless times, this is not the place to come air out your "first amendment rights." This is Frank's house and we live by Frank's rules. The guys who come on here spouting crap and claiming 1st amendment cover don't fair very well. We're all about Frank's Amendment rules
    laugh.gif
     
    #29
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As has been said here countless times, this is not the place to come air out your "first amendment rights." This is Frank's house and we live by Frank's rules. The guys who come on here spouting crap and claiming 1st amendment cover don't fair very well. We're all about Frank's Amendment rules
    laugh.gif
    </div></div>

    Well stated.
     
    #30
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were in Frank's shoes, I'd comply to the requirement of the law and no more.</div></div>

    If you were in Franks shoes you'd be wearing <span style="color: #FF0000">Red </span>High Heels...
     
    #32
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 1st amendment is no excuse nor is it a right to spread hate.</div></div>I hate to break it to you, but you are wrong about that....If there was any doubt as to whether the 1st Amendment protects a right to spread hate, the Court settled that in RAV v. St. Paul. The 1A unquestionably protects hateful speech. </div></div>You might want to qualify that position. The First Amendment does not protect conduct simply because it happens to be motivated by a person's views or beliefs.

    <span style="font-style: italic">Rav</span> was, in essence, a case not about hate speech but about Time, Place and Manner restrictions on conduct. To be valid, government restrictions on speech in public places must be content neutral. In <span style="font-style: italic">Rav</span> the issue was whether the St.Paul municipal Ordinance, as written, was an impermissible content-based restriction that amounted to viewpoint-based dicrimination by the government. The Supreme Court Majority held the Ordiance to be overbroad, proscribing both "fighting words" and protected speech, and because the regulation was "content-based" it wrongly proscribed only activities which conveyed messages concerning particular topics.

    The government <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span> place restrictions on the content of speech if those restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling government interest. Permissible reasons to restrict speech specifically include the prevention of injury to others. The Supreme Court has upheld content-based restrictions on speech when the speech creates a clear and present danger of imminent lawless action.

    This is not a 'hate' site. My understanding is that members here are welcome regardless of race, religious faith, or political persuasion. I don't want to be a member of any group that hates other groups. And no member here that I know - or would want to know -advocates unlawful violence or condones illegal activity.
     
    #33
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    This forum is not an entity of the US Government, therefore Frank can muffle what you say and how you say it. He owns this site, just like I own my company. If someone does something I dont like, I fire them. End of story.
     
    #34
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    I don't post much, but have to say I enjoy the site the way it is. It is Franks site, he runs it as he sees fit. It is great to be able to ask a question when needed, and see what others are doing in the shooting world. Sites like AR15.com have turned into political crap fest, and all kinds of weird stuff there. Started going there just to get ammo reviews, don't visit much anymore. Law and politics asside, it is his site, he can run it as he sees fit, I appreciate the site and its lack of crap. Hot girl friend post is cool though, even though it is off topic of shooting...hope it stays around for a while.
     
    #37
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    The government <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span> place restrictions on the content of speech if those restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling government interest. Permissible reasons to restrict speech specifically include the prevention of injury to others. The Supreme Court has upheld content-based restrictions on speech when the speech creates a clear and present danger of imminent lawless action.</div></div>

    <span style="font-style: italic">Partially </span>true.

    Content based distinctions are subject to strict scrutiny. There are three elements to strict scrutiny, of which you've mentioned the first two:

    1. There must be a compelling government interest for the law to exist in the first place,

    and

    2. The law must be narrowly tailored to achieve that compelling government interest.

    In addition, there's a third prong of the strict scrutiny doctrine that many people fail to recognize:

    3. The law must be the <span style="font-style: italic">least restrictive means</span> of achieving the two above.

    I have published my own article on my blog on precisely this topic. You suggest that there are a narrow range of such restrictions that can satisfy this test. You are correct. Empirical analyses of such laws have been studied by scholars. Hardly more than 1 in 5 laws analyzed under this doctrine are held to be constitutional as-applied to free speech cases. Even some particularly narrow laws aimed at speech that few of us would find valuable have been found unconstitutional. The law in <span style="font-style: italic">R.A.V.</span> is one of those cases.

    You are correct in stating that any speech that encourages imminent lawless action does not have constitutional protection. I would also argue that nothing that could ever be said on an internet forum could ever satisfy the standard for that. Certainly, however stupid, ignorant, or even felonious, anything that could be said on an internet forum could be handled by authorities long before any lawless action occurred.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is not a 'hate' site. My understanding is that members here are welcome regardless of race, religious faith, or political persuasion. I don't want to be a member of any group that hates other groups. And no member here that I know - or would want to know -advocates unlawful violence or condones illegal activity. </div></div>

    Agreed on all points. There are certainly some hateful things said on this site at times--not all of them political. Hate of our enemies with which we are currently at war is common and tolerated here--a viewpoint on which I agree with many. What I haven't seen here is any encouragement of <span style="font-style: italic">any </span>lawless action of any kind. And if there was, I'm sure it'd be dealt with before it got out of hand, either by moderation, bannage of the person who said it, or by other posters who would point out that such conduct is not welcome here.

    One thing I love about this site is that Frank and the other moderators allow it to be self-policing to a point. That's what separates this site from other gun sites on the net. We speak freely up until the point that the moderation staff decides that it's gone too far. And I appreciate that all of the moderation here allow discussion to continue even when it gets heated. People disagree here, and that's okay. Good things normally result from it. I post a lot in the reloading forum because I enjoy talking about reloading. And I know I've witnessed a substantial amount of disagreement on what loads are safe and which are not, which bullets are better than others, long range performance of differing projectiles, etc. That is why this site is here, and for that, I'm glad to have it and pleased to be a contributor.

    This thread serves as a warning to all of us to just not be stupid. I think that's a rule that goes a long way in real life and on the internet. First Amendment doctrine is fun to talk about and all, but let's face it. We're here because we want to be here, and because the moderation continues to allow us to have posting privileges, and for that I'm grateful.
     
    #38
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    3 Rules that work.

    1-This site is free, and we are all guests.
    2-Dont be an assclown when you are a guest.
    3-Refer to rule #2 when you hear the circus music in your head.
     
    #39
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doesn't relate directly to this website but just to hammer things home:

    Man investigated, his guns taken, for a forum post..

    Note it refers to an incident on a military base, which again is relevant to many here....

    </div></div>

    Wow. That fellow must not have realized his posts could come back to bite him. Geez, I thought Shankster's bigguns pictures might be offending the federales, but some go way past that. At least the www. monitoring agents can get a laugh outta his "lovelies".
     
    #40
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8PaoLy7PHwk"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8PaoLy7PHwk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
     
    #43
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krav69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flavor Flav looks like a burnt matchhead. </div></div>

    Yea, but he was bangin' Bridgitte Nielson and she was hot in her day. 25 years ago. </div></div>

    You mean this chick????

    nick-nolte-mugshot.jpg
     
    #46
    Re: ** A Serious Warning ***

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krav69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flavor Flav looks like a burnt matchhead. </div></div>

    Yea, but he was bangin' Bridgitte Nielson and she was hot in her day. 25 years ago. </div></div>

    You mean this chick????

    nick-nolte-mugshot.jpg
    </div></div>

    That pic is CLASSIC. Anyway you can equate Nick Nolte and Bridgette Nielson pictorially is going to be hilarious. Well-played.

    And yeah, this site is one of the few places that people with shooting interests can get real-world advice on how to reload better, shoot better, and support this technical hobby. You can't beat the feedback you get on gear and guns from people who know what they're talking about.

    There's a million places on the internet to talk about controversial stuff, but there's only one Sniper's Hide. Utilize this site for what it is.
     
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