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F T/R Competition A slightly different barrel cleaning question

J-ROD

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 17, 2011
308
10
Mechanicsville, Virginia
Hope everyone had a merry Christmas!

So my gun does shoot just as good, if not better with more rounds down the tube (Criterion 30" SS). Usually I clean when I get home, whether that's 20 rounds or 200, but not because it needs cleaning, but because I don't know how long it will be before I get to shoot again. It could be a week or 1-2 months.
This barrel really doesn't copper foul that bad but I always worry about sending a bullet down the barrel if there is a chance of that green oxidized goop being in the way.

Any of you guys have a similar shooting situation? Can I just run a light patch of Kroil down it in between or should I do a full clean as I am doing or am I worrying for nothing?

Thanks,

-Jarrod
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Kroil has a bunch of solvents in it - I would not use it as a preservative/rust preventer.

If you want to put a top coat on the dirty bore for storage, I would use my go-to lube - synthetic ATF (I use Amsoil but any good brand will do).

My previous 30 cal Palma barrel I would clean every 200-300 rounds. It shot GREAT dirty - so this is not an uncommon occurrence. Its replacement, another 4 groove Krieger, does not shoot well dirty in its current low round count (under 500) state. It gets cleaned after 80 or less rounds. No way I'd let a day of shooting go over 80 rounds on it, so nightly cleaning on a multi-day match program. I'm hoping it will extend its round count between cleanings as it gets more rounds on it, but I know some can need cleaning like this their entire life from talking to others.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

I live about an hour from the nearest range. I saturate the bore with Kroil and let it soak for the ride home. Once I get home I patch it dry and then run a patch of Hoppes oil...not #9 and its ready for the next trip. My best rifle also fouls very little.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Carbon is what causes corrosion/pitting so removing carbon is important. Copper doesn't cause corrosion so if the product you are using removes copper then that is more than likely why you are seeing you rifle fire better after you've put more rounds down the tube. Every time you remove that copper, it has to be built up again by putting rounds down the tube for you to see the performance you are used to seeing.

I am sure you will get conflicting and contradicting input to this but I have found in my own personal experience that this is true for my weapons just as you have also noted with yours. Clean your weapon as you normally do, just do not use any products that are known to remove copper. My guess is you will see the same results as I have once you start doing this. as always, YMMV.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Some contradiction from January 2009:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The proximity of powder fouling and copper fouling to the bare bore metal sets the stage for bimetallic/electrolytic corrosion, which we interpret as pitting.

When this foul brew combines with atmospheric moisture, it creates a low voltage electrical current flow/ion transfer that promotes oxidation, in a process similar to that of a dry cell battery. As long as there is a bimetallic interface and fouling with any degree of acidity or alkalinity, this process will start as soon as the atmospheric moisture and oxygen succeeds in penetrating to the bimetallic interface. This is why you should clean out the fouling and establish a protective coating that can block moisture penetration, or at least effectively oil the bore between shooting the session.

This regimen used to be basic military shooting and cleaning doctrine. You would shoot one day, and clean on each of the three succeeding days, because the metallic crystalline structure traps fouling and gas, which emerges as the gas seeps out over the first few days following shooting. It's not gremlins, and it's not mental lapse that turn a clean bore into a dirty one overnight. It's just the natural sequence of events which are driven by the pressure cycles that occur during shooting session. Or at least that's the way it was explained to me some decades ago.

This is all very trite, but it's also true enough. I agree with many that over cleaning is destructive, especially if done improperly, and do suspect that the shoot one, clean three regimen is a bit excessive.

But by the same token, I also fail to see what fundamental change has occurred in the shooting process that eliminates the need for bore maintenance. That's why I occasionally remark that the old methods I learned 'back when' have not stopped working for me. Bore scoping shows that with care in the cleaning process, bore status remains acceptable and the only real issue is throat erosion due to the actual firing heat/pressure cycle itself.

Accuracy may hold up, and that's all well and good, but I'm not hearing much about the corrosive effects of bore neglect. It may well be that such oxidation is actually unrelated to accuracy degradation, I honestly don't know, but I also feel that a valuable firearms deserves at least rudimentary maintenance and care, even if for nothing more than the standpoint of pride in one's possessions.

The only time I don't clean and oil my bores after each shooting session is during hunting season, so my preseason zero is not affected by the bore's cleaning/fouling status. Right now, I am in the process of cleaning seven rifles/shotguns/frontstuffer preparatory to laying them up for our local Winter shooting hiatus.

Greg
</div></div>

Given the simplicity and availability of bore cleaning foam products, cleaning has become so easy that it makes little sense to me not to clean after a day's shooting.

Greg
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

For my competition period,

I would only clean out carbon with normal oil like WD-40 and run dry patch.


But after finish shooting and have to storage my rifle more than 3 days, I would clean out all carbon and copper.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

I may be a trifle obsessive, but I clean after every shooting session. For whatever reason, I've settled on Butch's Bore Shine. I soak the bore and let it sit for a couple hours, patch it dry and repeat until I quit getting blue color. Every once in a while, I'll run a bronze brush through the bore a few times to make sure I'm getting through to the next layer of copper and carbon.

Some rifles require a number of such applications, and others clean out pretty quickly. When I'm finished, I run a patch with Kroil down the bore, not so much for corrosion protection as another way to loosen any remaining fouling.

Possibly a bit over-the-top, but I just had a couple barrels inspected with a borescope (one on my AR that has 3100 rounds through it and one on an old '03 I inherited from my brother). The report ended with "I almost never see bores this clean."

Richard
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Well thanks for all of the responses guys and for the info.
To clarify, I don't think the barrel shoots any worse dirty, it may be more of the loose nut behind the trigger getting back into the groove after 2-20rounds or so, making it seem like the gun is shooting better.

I have just about every bore cleaner out there. I finally settled on Patch-out w/accelerator, both bottles in liquid form not foam. I run one accelerator patch through, then one of patch out. After an overnite sit or even 30min, it seems to be squeaky clean.
As mentioned, I will also do a light Kroil patch for storage (then clean out prior to shooting again), just to see what, if anything will loosen up while it sits.

Guess since it's so easy, I will just keep on keeping on with my cleaning until I get into a situation where I am shooting back to back days.

Thanks again,

-Jarrod
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

I will add that I use Fire Clean on all my weapons to include my rifle both inside and outside. Like most of you, I've used just about everything out there at some point but I honestly have to say that I have never had anything work as good as this stuff. Clean your weapon off and remove all oils/ cleaners then apply fire clean. It's a cleaner and a lubricant and its used by drops and it goes a long way so not a lot is needed. After firing your weapon, wipe it off and the carbon comes right off, no scrubbing, then reapply a little bit of Fire Clean. And it is as easy as that. The best analogy I can use to describe it is that its like a teflon coated pan, carbon and grime don't stick to it.

I will also add that you don't want to use regular oils once you have Fire clean on your weapon as it will start breaking it down like it does carbon. in the video below its being used on a M249 machine gun BCG that just finished firing 400 rounds in 15 mins.

[video:youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y1dBjEucwE&sns=em[/video]


<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-y1dBjEucwE&sns=em"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-y1dBjEucwE&sns=em" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For my competition period,

I would only clean out carbon with normal oil like WD-40 and run dry patch.

</div></div>

WD40 is not a "normal oil" - it is a water dispersant.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Also... WD-40 can leave a varnish-like residue or film behind - meaning it can harden up over time. Not the best thing to be using inside guns (or large substation switchgear like circuit breakers or reclosers, where I had my run-in with it)
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also... WD-40 can leave a varnish-like residue or film behind - meaning it can harden up over time. Not the best thing to be using inside guns (or large substation switchgear like circuit breakers or reclosers, where I had my run-in with it) </div></div>

Tell us more. Did you almost make an ash of yourself?
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also... WD-40 can leave a varnish-like residue or film behind - meaning it can harden up over time. Not the best thing to be using inside guns (or large substation switchgear like circuit breakers or reclosers, where I had my run-in with it) </div></div>

Tell us more. Did you almost make an ash of yourself? </div></div>

Now you've sparked my interest!
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PJ BAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also... WD-40 can leave a varnish-like residue or film behind - meaning it can harden up over time. Not the best thing to be using inside guns (or large substation switchgear like circuit breakers or reclosers, where I had my run-in with it) </div></div>

Tell us more. Did you almost make an ash of yourself? </div></div>

Now you've sparked my interest! </div></div>

Thats shocking information!
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Liam longrifle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WD-40 is made up of 70% fish oil witch is corrosive.. </div></div>

Really? Please take a look at this MSDS and tell me where the fish oil is in the formula...

MSDS for aerosol WD-40
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

When I was a kid there was an old guy down the street that used to carry a can of WD40 on him all the time. He claimed it fixed everything and I saw him use it on himself for the ache in his elbow and once on his head when he said he had a headache. I know that sounds odd but the guy wasn't flipped out, he was a normal old guy tooling around his house. The guy swore by the stuff. Well one day I was out cutting the grass as was he and I heard him yell loudly. I looked over and see him squirting his WD40 at something on the ground and swearing. I walk over and to see what the issue is and he's sprayed a rattle snake that he walked up on with his WD40. The snake is hauling ass back into brush and he's breathing hard. Alls well that ends well. About a month later I see him with 2 cases of wd40 in his arms and I ask him if he needs a hand. Now this is the part I can't prove but he tells me that he wrote to WD40 after the snake incident and that WD40 saved his life and they sent him the 2 cases of WD40 free. Don't know if its a tale or not but I can attest to his using it on himself and the snake and pretty much anything he thought needed it.

On a different note and more on topic, I am well versed in the Army's 3 cleanings of weapons. As a private I quickly caught on to the "clean weapons for 3 full days even if your weapon is clean and done in 30 minutes on day 1". The other trick that gets everyone was the old q-tip/pinky finger swipe in the M-16/M-4 chamber which always comes up with a bit of dirt no matter what you do. I pulled out the WD40 and started using it on my weapon and was able to get it clean and even pass the q-tip test after a good 30 mins of cleaning on day 1. This flustered the NCOs as you can imagine and WD40 quickly became forbidden to use. If you showed up with a weapon that passed they would squirt CLP in the chamber and then do the finger test and of course it failed. So we quickly learned how to clean our weapons well in 30 mins and then spend the remaining time going through the cleaning motions. While I've seen all the arguments PRO/CON on WD40 use and weapons, I do know that it works well at cleaning a weapon fouled with heavy carbon deposits. I've also used brake and carb cleaner to get the heavy stuff off. In all cases, I've always followed up with a coating of CLP or other gun oil just because thats what they want in the military. Personally, I have no issue with using WD40 on weapons for cleaning if its all I have on hand, the stuff works.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PJ BAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Denys</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also... WD-40 can leave a varnish-like residue or film behind - meaning it can harden up over time. Not the best thing to be using inside guns (or large substation switchgear like circuit breakers or reclosers, where I had my run-in with it) </div></div>

Tell us more. Did you almost make an ash of yourself? </div></div>

Now you've sparked my interest! </div></div>

Thats shocking information! </div></div>

When the HVAC engineer asked how much heat the switchgear produced, the electrical engineer replied: "When it's powered, or when it's burning?"
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

So, which product will you recommend for cleaning carbon in barrel during competition period?

How about Break Free CLP?


I normally use Butch Bore Shine for remove copper & using Break Free CLP in wet patch for storage.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

every barrel is different, but I'm in the same situation as the OP in that I never know how long it will be before i shoot again, so I just go ahead and clean. It only takes 3 or so rds to get it back shooting great.
 
Re: A slightly different barrel cleaning question

Which oil is proper for cleaning carbon residue without destroy the copper?