About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

[IndySSD]

So between Gglass' posts about how well his 700P is shooting, the positive things I've read here on SH and my Realtor telling me that we're closing this Friday on our new house @ a great price point (about 2k less than I expected after closing) I've decided it's time to "pull the trigger" on a bolt gun.

I can't afford to drop 5k on stick+glass so I thought I'd start with what I feel like is a rifle I can hand down to my son when he's ready to start reaching out and touching stuff in a few years when I've practiced enough to feel confident that the 700 is no longer capable of shooting further than I am.

I may upgrade the glass (currently mounted is a Leupold Mark4 M3-10x) before that point but does anyone see a reason I shouldn't start out with this combo? (I've never shot anything over 200 yards or so and that was an AK and a SKS)

I think I'll be looking at right around 1500-1600$ once I add a Harris bipod to the front and a quality sling. I figure that gives me 400$ in ammo and range fees to get acquainted with the rifle right away.

Suggestions about a sling (I don't love bench shooting, I'd like to be able to sling support sitting/standing/unsupported prone*or rucksack supported+beanbag prone) are most welcome, as well as bipod advice, turns out I know jack about Harris bipods and there are like 10 different ones to choose from?

I don't currently reload (but I'll be adding .308 reloading gear to my Bday/Christmas list to the wife) so I'm just planning on shooting factory ammo. Any suggestions what to start with for that as well as temporary factory loaded ammo to get me started (and where to find it since I haven't seen any at local shops)?

Sorry I know there is a lot of blah blah blah and several different questions in here but like I said, I'm just getting into long range.

Thanks,

IndySSD


Oh and BTW, DAR is my hero. I spent over an hour reading his 1.5 year long distance shooting journey and watching his videos this morning. I hope I can start doing the same!

 

[Top Cat]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

That would be a good rig. The 700p is a solid rifle, but here are some other ideas of what you could do for the money.

Perhaps a new Rem 5r with a 10x Super Sniper scope. That is about $1300 and it gives you mil-dots in your scope. I think that is a better rig regardless of price.

Or a Rem SPS tactical or AAC with the same scope, that is a $1000 rig total. The tactical is lighter for field use but just as accurate.

Fed GMM ammo in 175 gr is excellent and will get you started.

TC

 

[IndySSD]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That would be a good rig. The 700p is a solid rifle, but here are some other ideas of what you could do for the money.

Perhaps a new Rem 5r with a 10x Super Sniper scope. That is about $1300 and it gives you mil-dots in your scope. I think that is a better rig regardless of price.

Or a Rem SPS tactical or AAC with the same scope, that is a $1000 rig total. The tactical is lighter for field use but just as accurate.

Fed GMM ammo in 175 gr is excellent and will get you started.

TC </div></div>

Well, one thing I didn't mention is my plan to have the barrel chopped just enough to use the end of the barrel as a screw on thread protector and threaded to accept a can. I thought the longer PSS barrel would help me maintain the best MV with factory ammo. I guess I should have state earlier but one of my 2011 goals is to be able to ring 12" gongs @ 1000 yards consistantly and I was staying away from the SPS tactical because the only ones I saw were 20" barrels that had considerably lower MV's that dropped .308 rounds subsonic around the 800-900 yard mark instead of the 1000-1200 yard mark of the longer 26" barrel. (I thought, please correct me if I'm wrong).

Also I leaned towards the PSS over the 5R was that I thought the 5R was MORE expensive (1000$ 5R vs. 850 PSS) than the PSS and I wouldn't really have cash left over for a quality optic. I had read that the Leupold M4 is a great starter point here on the "Getting started in Long Range Shooting" sticky post by DemiGodLLC and thought it went along with his suggestion of a Remington 700 action rifle in .308 since I can't afford to have multiple *long range* rifles.

*edit*Clarified rifle specification.

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

I think you're on the right track... FWIW

 

[gglass]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

IndySSD,

This could be your lucky day. My boss also bought a new 700P last week and now needs to sell it due to unexpected expenses. His is yet unfired (NIB) and I'm sure that he will sell it for $749. The best part is that like you, we also live here in Indiana (Goshen area).

Let me know if you might be interested, and I'll convey it to my boss.

 

[Top Cat]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

Nothing wrong with your choices...I just wanted to suggest some alternatives...the final decision is yours, and I'm sure you will make the right decision that works out best for you.

All my rifles are customs, but they all started out as some type of factory rifle. They are both good, but if I had to choose between only those two, I would pick the 5r, but personally speaking, I think the 5r is a better rifle. To turn a PSS into a 5r would cost a lot more than $150.

When you thread the barrel for a can you don't lose any length...a 20" bbl threaded for a can will still be a 20" bbl.

I like 24" bbls, but a 20" bbl will stay supersonic to 1200yds with the right ammo, I have several in both lengths...the 24" might have a 50-75 yard supersonic advantage with the same load. That is a real "advantage" but if I really want to hit something at 1000yds, I am going to want more horsepower than the 308 offers anyway.

For shooting at targets, I don't think bbl length makes that much of a difference. For what you can buy over the counter, a 175 SMK match load or equivalent will fly straight to 1000 yds out of either rifle...because that is what it was designed to do.

The Lapua Scenar is the great equalizer of rifle barrels.

TC

 

[IndySSD]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong with your choices...I just wanted to suggest some alternatives...the final decision is yours, and I'm sure you will make the right decision that works out best for you.

All my rifles are customs, but they all started out as some type of factory rifle. They are both good, but if I had to choose between only those two, I would pick the 5r, but personally speaking, I think the 5r is a better rifle. To turn a PSS into a 5r would cost a lot more than $150.

When you thread the barrel for a can you don't lose any length...a 20" bbl threaded for a can will still be a 20" bbl.

I like 24" bbls, but a 20" bbl will stay supersonic to 1200yds with the right ammo, I have several in both lengths...the 24" might have a 50-75 yard supersonic advantage with the same load. That is a real "advantage" but if I really want to hit something at 1000yds, I am going to want more horsepower than the 308 offers anyway.

For shooting at targets, I don't think bbl length makes that much of a difference. For what you can buy over the counter, a 175 SMK match load or equivalent will fly straight to 1000 yds out of either rifle...because that is what it was designed to do.

The Lapua Scenar is the great equalizer of rifle barrels.

TC </div></div>

This is a lot of great info that I've not run across before. So would a 20" barrel with a 6" suppressor be basically the same as a 24"barrel without a can?

Also, how much more stability would I gain/lose keeping vs chopping the extra 4" (isn't the 700pss a 1:12" twist rate? I thought having two full revolutions in the barrel would increase performance)

 

[Top Cat]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a lot of great info that I've not run across before. So would a 20" barrel with a 6" suppressor be basically the same as a 24"barrel without a can?

Also, how much more stability would I gain/lose keeping vs chopping the extra 4" (isn't the 700pss a 1:12" twist rate? I thought having two full revolutions in the barrel would increase performance) </div></div>

If I understand what you are asking, performance wise, no, they are not quite the same. If you cut a 24" bbl to 20" you will end up with the slightly lower performance level of a 20" bbl whether you have a suppressor on it or not.

The suppressor does not add any velocity. The uncut 24" barrel is still the faster of the two with or without a can, but it's not a big difference in the 308 round.

How many revolutions a bullet spins inside a barrel doesn't really matter. Full or partial revolutions don't matter.

A longer barrel imparts greater velocity to the bullet before it leaves the barrel...that's it. Higher velocity does increase performance, and that makes the performance of a longer barrel a little better, but accuracy is the same.

TC

 

[IndySSD]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a lot of great info that I've not run across before. So would a 20" barrel with a 6" suppressor be basically the same as a 24"barrel without a can?

Also, how much more stability would I gain/lose keeping vs chopping the extra 4" (isn't the 700pss a 1:12" twist rate? I thought having two full revolutions in the barrel would increase performance) </div></div>

If I understand what you are asking, performance wise, no, they are not quite the same. If you cut a 24" bbl to 20" you will end up with the slightly lower performance level of a 20" bbl whether you have a suppressor on it or not.

The suppressor does not add any velocity. The uncut 24" barrel is still the faster of the two with or without a can, but it's not a big difference in the 308 round.

How many revolutions a bullet spins inside a barrel doesn't really matter. Full or partial revolutions don't matter.

A longer barrel imparts greater velocity to the bullet before it leaves the barrel...that's it. Higher velocity does increase performance, and that makes the performance of a longer barrel a little better, but accuracy is the same.

TC

</div></div>

I'm sorry I don't think I'm being clear.

The rifle that I am buying is a 26" barrel, my understanding was that to cut/thread the barrel and use the end piece as a thread protector it would mean cutting the barrel down to 24" from 26" and then threading the inside of the cut off piece so that the barrel would be almost unchanged in appearance when the can was not mounted.

This is where I got the idea of a 24" barrel.

I've also heard of just chopping the 26" barrel down to 20" and threading it for a can and you wouldn't lose much velocity. Again this is all second hand.

 

[fdkay]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

Trying to use the remaining piece of barrel for the end cap is a bad idea unless you bore out the rifling.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

I just picked up a 700 police in 300 winmag 3 weeks ago. I had it glass bedded, badger bolt knob put on, leupold mark 4 ERT M5 FFP put on it. I pick it up this weekend. My buddy has the exact same rig in 308 with the exact same work done to it. His is a tack driver. Consistently shooting sub moa. I hear a lot about the 5r but I'm yet to really see any actual range performance differences between the two.

My 700 p has a 1:10 twist rate too. I think all the 300 win mags do. But the 308 may be 1:12. I would be happy with your original post and purchase that setup. I thought about putting a can on mine as well. The overall length of the barrel doesn't "need" to be shortened to have it threaded and an end cap made. They just turn the barrel on the lathe to shave off some thickness on the end of the barrel and then thread it. Then your cap screws on over the threads. You can make the barrel as long or short as you want to fit your needs. I had second thoughts about the silencer cuz I didn't want to shorten my barrel. Having a huge Gemtech can on the end of a 26 in barrel would make for one LONG gun.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trying to use the remaining piece of barrel for the end cap is a bad idea unless you bore out the rifling.</div></div>

Hmm, that's a good point, I didn't think about that. I'm sure the guy my NFA dealer uses/suggests does that, he's threaded and capped quite a few rifles for my NFA items dealer.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a 700 police in 300 winmag 3 weeks ago. I had it glass bedded, badger bolt knob put on, leupold mark 4 ERT M5 FFP put on it. I pick it up this weekend. My buddy has the exact same rig in 308 with the exact same work done to it. His is a tack driver. Consistently shooting sub moa. I hear a lot about the 5r but I'm yet to really see any actual range performance differences between the two.

My 700 p has a 1:10 twist rate too. I think all the 300 win mags do. But the 308 may be 1:12. I would be happy with your original post and purchase that setup. I thought about putting a can on mine as well. The overall length of the barrel doesn't "need" to be shortened to have it threaded and an end cap made. They just turn the barrel on the lathe to shave off some thickness on the end of the barrel and then thread it. Then your cap screws on over the threads. You can make the barrel as long or short as you want to fit your needs. I had second thoughts about the silencer cuz I didn't want to shorten my barrel. Having a huge Gemtech can on the end of a 26 in barrel would make for one LONG gun. </div></div>

Yeah, I'm definitely going to pick up the combo. I'll probably have the barrel threaded @ 26" and pick up one of the many 700 "tactical" 20" barrels I see for sale and have it threaded as well and then compare the two.

That's about all I know to do at this point. Oh, and I'm no operator, the most dangerous thing I <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">plan</span></span> on implementing my long range threat interdiction tool on would be the coyotes that keep shagging chickens from my Moms property every winter but I'd like to get into competitive shooting out to 1000 yards, even if I'm only competing with my former marine buddy

.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: About to "pull the trigger" on a 700p.308+Mark4

I think you'll be very happy.