Above high end for first rifle?

[WinterTyrant]

Hello my name is Floyd and I just joined the forum because I have interests in beginning long range shooting. I actually want to get me a State Arms 50 but know that it will be best for me to start small and most importantly keep cost as low as possible for getting my feet wet. I know that one of the best starting rounds and practice rounds is the .308 and the obvious choice would be one of the Rem 700's but I had a couple questions for you guys.

First off...would it be a good investment if I bought a semi-custom rifle off the shelf of many small specialty shops such as GAP, D&L Sports, Sniper Central also offers one(probably many others) or should I get just the standard Rem 700 from a gun shop? I know that both rifles will outshoot my skill I would eventually want to mod and improve the weapon. While I know relatively nothing about glass, ballistics, and beddings I have been lurking here, Sniper Central, AR15, M4Carbine for quite sometime so I do know some basics. I am trying to learn all I can as fast as I can so bare with me. So what would you suggest? I do eventually want to get into long range shooting using 338., 408. or 50., and I also want to start reloading as well.

I do have a shotgun and have shot my friends AR, AK and my dads 30-06 so I know a bit about being precise and I am in love with E.D.M's mini Windrunner... and might want to save for that in the future. My shotgun is currently on its way to AI&P tactical awaiting a big list of mods btw!

Thanks for the help,
Floyd

 

[flyboy]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

First question, what your budget. It all depends on that.

 

[sinarms]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I would say one of the best starting calibers is 223, you can shoot 5-600 yards with it and more if wanted to. low recoil, cheaper to shoot, makes you learn how to read the wind and figuring elevation a lot better which is what you will need to do for long range. I would say put 2-3k rounds of 223 from 100-500 yards and you would be ready to shoot 308 and maybe 300 wsm to get you out to 1k. Learn to reload and how to do it accurately. And for longer shooting I would probably use a 338 edge.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I would start with a Rem700 5R and a nice piece of glass like a used Nightforce NXS, that combo should set you back a tad over $2500. If thats too much, downgrade the rifle to a SPS tactical, but keep the glass! Better to have a good scope right from the start rather than having to upgrade your optics later.

The reason I say get a Rem 5R because they are shooters right out of the box. Mine shot .3moa with handloads and .5moa with handloads. Not much you need to do to this rifle except mount a scope and shoot.

SPS tatical is the next shoice down from the 5R, it comes with a cheap plastic stock which you can always upgrade later, but costs about $400 less.

 

[XL Mammal]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

Welcome, Floyd. You'll get a ton of great info on this site from some of the most knowledgeable on the subject. I am not one of them. However, I can pose a question based on my relatively unique experience that many don't address. Are you of average size? I ask this because I am 6'4". I didn't realize until recently how important fit of the rifle is. I was able to get a TRG-22 and finally get a rifle to fit my size. Big difference.

You'll improve with lots of practice, obviously. But sound fundamentals need to be practiced. If the rifle doesn't fit you might develop some bad habits. For instance, I used to start pulling hard with my non-trigger hand to keep the stock tight in my shoulder, which would cause me to start shaking slightly. A well fit stock fixed this. It also, let me get my head in a natural position for proper eye relief, thus less fatigue during range session. End result is better accuracy with better fundamentals.

I don't mean to be long-winded, but this subject is rarely addressed. If you can work with regular lengths-of-pull then it's a non-issue. If not, and adjustable stock may be a good investment. Regardless, always try to minimize accuracy detractors.

And check out the Online Training!

BTW fellas, what a difference between the tone of this post and NoVex's 1st thread, huh? Floyd, you did well to do your research before posing the question.

 

[leagle2]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

There is an interesting article over on http://accurateshooter.com/bulletin.html (Sept 6, 2009) about learning on a truly accurate rifle. I am the last person who ought to give advice but this is exactly why I shoot custom/semi custom rigs. I want to take, as much as possible, the equipment out of the equation. When I hit 2" high and 2" left I want to know it is me. If you can afford it I'd look around in the for sale section for a .223 built or "massaged" by any of the excellent 'smiths that post here. A WTB ad might yield you surprising results as well. Good luck.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leagle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is an interesting article over on http://accurateshooter.com/bulletin.html (Sept 6, 2009) about learning on a truly accurate rifle. I am the last person who ought to give advice but this is exactly why I shoot custom/semi custom rigs. I want to take, as much as possible, the equipment out of the equation. When I hit 2" high and 2" left I want to know it is me. If you can afford it I'd look around in the for sale section for a .223 built or "massaged" by any of the excellent 'smiths that post here. A WTB ad might yield you surprising results as well. Good luck. </div></div>

they are comparing a cheap factory sporter rifle capable of 1.5 - 2 moa to full-on bench rest rifles. that is not the same as suggesting someone start out with a 700p or 700 5r before jumping into a full on custom tactical precision rifle. if a person is shooting 1.5" groups with a rifle that is capable of shooting .5-.75, the shooter is doing something wrong. they would still probably be shooting those same 1.5" groups with a rifle that is capable of .25" groups but doing it for a couple grand more.

that being said, i suggest if money is an issue like most of us, buy an off the shelf 700p or 700 5r. if you find you really enjoy shooting precision rifles and shoot enough to figure out the limitations of that factory rifle, then you can start thinking about what you want to change or improve on your existing rifle or for a new build. if money is no object or you just have to have the best thing out there, then go ahead and get a full on custom.

 

[WinterTyrant]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

Thanks for all the positive comments guys. I can tell I'll be here a long time. But now onto the subject...I probably should have set you guys up with some rough guidelines for you to follow so I apologise about that. My budget after talking with my fiancee is not as much as I would have hoped, its more of a rimfire budget ha ha. We decided on a 2k budget for everything rifle, glass, drag bag and some ammo. The reloading can come later. To answer mammal's post I am about 5'10" and about 170 lbs. Thanks again guys.

Floyd

 

[sinarms]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

Buy a savage 10fp in either 223 or 308, shoot the barrel out of it or sell the barrel and buy a premium prefit barrel. It will easily shoot under 1/2 moa with the premium barrel and hand load. You would have under a grand in that setup and plenty of money for a scope and some ammo or reloading equipment. Or you could buy a Savage action, a nice stock, and say a Brux prefit barrel and have a great start to shooting. You can get a 223 barrel and one in 308 and swap the bolt heads and barrel your self when ever you feel you needed more power and range.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

2K can get down a good road in long range shooting. I would find a rem 700 5R, Those almost always shoot great and come in a good stock. nightforce again is an axcellent scope. If you want to save more for ammo a super sniper 10x or 16x will do great. Drag bag is not needed but nice to have. Mine is never in a bag. I'm a farm boy that has it setting in the seat next to me with muzzle towards floor

I had a brake installed just for that reason to protect the crown.
Shoot conservativly. Don't dump ammo practicing. Take every shoot with intention of improving from the last.
Maybe join the online training here. Lowlight has excellent videos and instructions to get a person shooting correctly.

 

[asbestosglove]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

+1 on the Savage. Their F-Class series are serious shooters right out of the box. Their long range .223 with the 1/7 is scary accurate and there's one on the for sale thread to look at. Shot cloverleafs at 200 yesterday setting one up for the NCRPA match coming up.

AG

 

[okiefired]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2K can get down a good road in long range shooting. I would find a rem 700 5R, Those almost always shoot great and come in a good stock. nightforce again is an axcellent scope. If you want to save more for ammo a super sniper 10x or 16x will do great. </div></div>

A Nightforce equiped 5R is going to be way over your budget, one eqoiped with a SS will fit. However, as you know if you've been reading here quite a bit, there are quite a few high quality scopes that will fit your budget with a 5R. A good used 700P or LTR (which I really like) would be a good choice and give you a little more room for that quality scope. My LTR and VSSF are both capable of .5 moa if I have everything else right. Its pretty easy to find good pre owned equipment that has been used very little and you can save a lot of money by going that route. Remember, DO NOT scimp on base and rings. Your system is only as good as its weakest link. A good base and rings will probably set you back 150 to 200. Example; A good used LTR with a SS or Buckmaster 6-18x40 with good quality rings and base should set you back somewhere around $1300. Thats possibly a .5 moa shooter with quite a bit left over for ammo and lots of practice. Lots of ways to go and a lot of it will boil down to preference. Take your time and good luck. BTW, I'm sorry you've got this addiction, its incurable.

okie

 

[OFIS]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

if i could start all over again, even with budget in mind:
5r---------------------1,000~
badger rings/base---300~
super sniper----------400~


i would just say ditto to other posters in this thread, but ive come to this conclusion on my own with the hindsight ive gotten from going the custom route. and want to drive our combined lessons home with repitition

over time you will get a new trigger, new stock, new scope and last but not least a new barrel. but the best part is you can hawk the old trigger, stock, scope and have money towards their replacement.

oh and dont start with 223, it seems like it makes sense but youll just end up with a 308 eventually. (my biggest mistake)

 

["Partridge"]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

a savage 10 fcp with the hs precision stock.it has a dbm,very high quality stock,1-10 barrel,good trigger and capable of isane accuracy from a production rifle.all for 879.00 on gun broker.

 

[WinterTyrant]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I'm going to have to let my girl deal with this addiction, I'll just succumb. Ha ha. I might try and get a used setup for getting my feet wet because I'll end up wanting bigger and better. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

["Partridge"]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

oh and i second 051f on the 308 issue,get it and be done with it.

 

[Luvman]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I love my savage. it just shoots.

I'd say pick the best scope you can with matching reticle and adjustments, then pick a rifle. I wouldn't skimp on rings or bases either.

If you watch you can pick up a good 20MOA base for around 100. seekins or badger rings for another 100 or so. A used nightforce NXS in either MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL should set you back about $1200. with the leftover 600 you could pick up a savage or remmington sps tactical. then spend as much on ammo and range time as possible.

as you progress and your bank account recovers then worry about what mods to do to your rifle.

hth,
LM

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I always suggest starting with a rimfire. They are generally cheaper to buy. Cheaper to feed and it's much easier to find 300 yard ranges than it is to find a 1000 yard range. Shooting a .22 at 300 yards is no joke.

If you absolutely have to go centerfire then a 700P or LTR. Top it with a Falco 4-14x44FFP with mil/mil adjustments. Add a Harris BRM-S and either a TAB or TIS sling and you will be all set to learn. If most of your shooting will be under 600 yards then go with a .223. If you will be reaching out as often as possible then .308 is the better choice. In addition, once you burn out the factory barrel the .308 bolt face will give you some good options for better long range chamberings once you get into reloading.

 

[WinterTyrant]

Re: Above high end for first rifle?

I was actually thinking of getting a .22 or .17 hmr to just start out. I wanted to get good with that then move up but am not quite sure. Do you guys have any suggestions?