This may belong in the stupid questions forum, but I thought it might be more likely to reach knowledgeable people here in the reloading forum. I'm just curious to know what your experiences are with people having a rifle blow up in their face. I know all the warnings about being extra careful of over pressure situations that could result in a mishap, but it seems that I don't often hear about anyone having a rifle blow up on them. I know it happens and I even have a personal friend who had it happen to him years ago. He got away with just some tiny shrapnel in his face and a ruined gun. Could have been much worse, so I guess he was lucky. Anyway, other than this one instance and a few incidents that I've read about, it seems to me that it rarely happens. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, so I'm curious to know what the experiences of others are. It seems to me that with so many newbies joining the ranks of reloaders during the past couple of years, the rate of accidents might increase due to inexperience, but I don't seem to ever hear about it.
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I'm sure there are others here with far more experience than I, but in 45+ years as a gun nut the few "blown up" rifles I've encountered have all been from barrel obstructions.
TWO in one day at a hunting season sight in day...from the owners LEAVING bore sighters in their barrels...then firing a round!! Quite spectacular.
I've seen the result of grossly over pressure handloads many times; seized bolts, blown primers, etc. Used to see a guy at a Range who kept a rubber mallet on the bench with him to whack open the bolt!! He was the local "High Velocity" guy.
Other than slam fires from a high primer in AR's , M1's or M1A's very few damaged autos in my experiences. Far more over pressured bolt guns.
Personally the worst occurrence in all my rounds down range was a popped primer in a .220 swift in 100+ temps shooting PD's in Wyoming...years back.
FN in MT
TWO in one day at a hunting season sight in day...from the owners LEAVING bore sighters in their barrels...then firing a round!! Quite spectacular.
I've seen the result of grossly over pressure handloads many times; seized bolts, blown primers, etc. Used to see a guy at a Range who kept a rubber mallet on the bench with him to whack open the bolt!! He was the local "High Velocity" guy.
Other than slam fires from a high primer in AR's , M1's or M1A's very few damaged autos in my experiences. Far more over pressured bolt guns.
Personally the worst occurrence in all my rounds down range was a popped primer in a .220 swift in 100+ temps shooting PD's in Wyoming...years back.
FN in MT
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The Internet happened....
do a search for kaboom and you will likely find several cases. I've never seen one or know anybody who's had one. And many of those I've seen on line were likely duplicates of the same kaboom just reported in different places. They do happen and it ain't perty. The guy looking at you in the mirror is solely responsible for your safety. Kabooms with factory ammo are about the only ones you can't really prevent through any actions of your own, and I think they are pretty rare.
About twenty-five years ago I sold my practically new, beloved Super Match M1A to a friend of mine so I could fund what I really wanted, an M40A1. Within a month he proceded to dismantle that M1A from the inside out. Luckily he was not hurt, but damn him anyway for ruing such a fine rifle. I was pretty pissed about that at the time.
Now, he was reloading using some then newly available eastern-european powder like VV because it was "cheaper", in spite of the fact that at the time there was virtually no reloading information available yet for those powders here in the U.S.. Any way, that is what he blamed it on, but I never saw his reloading procedures and I wasn't there when he blew it up. So, the real reason could have been anything, but I'm certain it was his reloading. I didn't want to offend him by questioning him further on it, but I was also afraid he would somehow spin it that I sold him a "defective" rifle, which I think I can safely say I know I didn't.
Now, he was reloading using some then newly available eastern-european powder like VV because it was "cheaper", in spite of the fact that at the time there was virtually no reloading information available yet for those powders here in the U.S.. Any way, that is what he blamed it on, but I never saw his reloading procedures and I wasn't there when he blew it up. So, the real reason could have been anything, but I'm certain it was his reloading. I didn't want to offend him by questioning him further on it, but I was also afraid he would somehow spin it that I sold him a "defective" rifle, which I think I can safely say I know I didn't.
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VV? Cheap? Are we thinking on the same VV? Also I would hardly call Finland eastern Europe.
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Due to my work, I have seen a lot more than most. It is pretty rare that a reloading error will cause an actual barrel rupture in anything but a shotgun. Depending on firearm type, there are of course other things that can become liberated. I've been successful at blowing up various firearms on purpose for a variety of reasons, and even when trying, it is not a simple feat in most cases. That said, there constraints are there for a reason. Repeated over-pressure rounds over a certain threshold can lead to failure.
Hey, I'm telling the story. Whatever it was (I'm pretty sure it WAS VV) was from that general part of the world as far as anyone here was concerned, since everyone here was using U.S.-made powder at that time. And, yes, IIRC it was relatively cheap since they were trying to create a market over here. I never bought any, so I might be wrong on that. VV is from Finland? Didn't know, don't care. Finland isn't part of eastern Europe? Thanks for the geography lesson. Doesn't really change my story one way or the other.
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I have not had a rifle blow up, I have had a barrel bulge because of a squib(stupid pistol to rifle adapter thing), also had gas in my face due to improper sizing of brass.
Lessons I learned,
Always keep the bottle of powder on the reloading table until you are completely finished loading.
Always check each loaded case for an equal amount of powder before seating (with a flashlight)
Never load when your tired or distracted.
Lessons I learned,
Always keep the bottle of powder on the reloading table until you are completely finished loading.
Always check each loaded case for an equal amount of powder before seating (with a flashlight)
Never load when your tired or distracted.
It doesn't happen if you do it right, and making sure you do it right every single time requires a process. A clean bench, good lighting, enough time, no interruptions. Double check the load data on paper every time you sit down. Only one can of powder out of the cabinet at a time. Double check that every case has powder. Keep stuff out of your bore at the range as much as possible - all the big problems seem to come when the trigger is pulled on an obstructed bore. Don't let a squib load with no powder become an obstruction, don't use a bore sighter at the range, and put a big piece of cardboard on a cleaning rod before you knock out a stuck round. Basically, eliminate the failure points with process.
This last year in the same week at the 2 different ranges I shoot at guys blew 308s up in there faces. One blew the bolt of a savage straight into his face. Luckily for him the range officer had been a medic in Vietnam and got him stabilized til the paramedics showed up. The other rifle I think was a Remington and the guy had a lot of damage too. It happens alot. Especially with how many people decided all of the sudden that reloading was the answer to the ammo crisis and jumped in with both feet. I had a friend that almost loaded 45grs of titegroup in his 308 because the powder worked so well in his handguns, no difference right just put more?
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adN nevr drink loaded....er....load drinked.....er......drunk loaded.....er......ah, hell, you nkow waht I maen.
Was hoping you could share some of that cheap VV with us!
I have personal knowledge of 2 shotgun split barrels. One had a dirt dauber nest built in the barrel. He didn't check the barrel for obstructions before shooting at a stray dog chasing his families cattle. He was lucky. The firing pin was blown out of the single shot shotgun and carved his cheek muscles and tissues away. He wore a large bandage on his right cheek when he was able to come back to school. Later when all the stitches came out, he had a really big scar, almost arrow shaped. The scar went from just under his eye to within an inch of his ear. He brought the shotgun with split barrel to school for everyone to see. Yes I saw it.
2 The guy just wanted one more step to fire at the geese. He was chest deep in waders. That next step was a hole. He said as his head went under water he heard the shotgun go BLOOOP. When he dried out and took a closer look the Rem 870 had a split about 10 inches long in the barrel just rear of half way. I saw this barrel after it was taken off the gun.
3 I read a report where a man was practicing with a benchrest rifle and forgot to finish cleaning the barrel. His cleaning rod was almost all the way into the chamber. Needless to say the bolt exploded out the rear and his head received massive trauma. He was dead before the ambulance got there. I only read the report on this. But I also read his obituary.
4 A friend was shooting a high power match in the summer time. It was very hot. The man on the very next firing point had a problem with an older M-14 with a welded receiver. He had some VERY hot loads and they had been sitting in the sun for a while. A round went off and ruptured out the bottom of the case. It blew the magazine out the bottom with enough force it went halfway down into the hard ground. The receiver broke in half and the stock broke at that point also. The guy didn't have to go to the hospital. But I don't see how he kept from it. The magazine missed his foot by only an inch or two. My friend witnessed this first hand. I have no reason to think he was anything other than honest telling it to me.
This is NOT the same category. The pistol did not blow up. A friend came by the house several times in a month. I happened to notice, he had no hair on his knuckles, backs of his hands or his wrists. I just thought it odd. I asked him about it. He had just bought a S&W 500 mag revolver with something like a 3 inch barrel. The barrel is ported. He was talking at the firing line and didn't get his ammo fired. The sun had gone behind the hills & trees. But it was still light. He said when he touched it off he saw a fire ball (he said basketball sized) completely envelope both his hands up past his wrist watch. I think he stepped his loads back down a bit.
These stories are true as best as I know.
Dealing with the pressures involved in handloading for anything more than a Nano-second will cause catastrophic consequences. Please, please, PLEASE read all the safety warnings every year or so. Take this part of the sport VERY seriously.
2 The guy just wanted one more step to fire at the geese. He was chest deep in waders. That next step was a hole. He said as his head went under water he heard the shotgun go BLOOOP. When he dried out and took a closer look the Rem 870 had a split about 10 inches long in the barrel just rear of half way. I saw this barrel after it was taken off the gun.
3 I read a report where a man was practicing with a benchrest rifle and forgot to finish cleaning the barrel. His cleaning rod was almost all the way into the chamber. Needless to say the bolt exploded out the rear and his head received massive trauma. He was dead before the ambulance got there. I only read the report on this. But I also read his obituary.
4 A friend was shooting a high power match in the summer time. It was very hot. The man on the very next firing point had a problem with an older M-14 with a welded receiver. He had some VERY hot loads and they had been sitting in the sun for a while. A round went off and ruptured out the bottom of the case. It blew the magazine out the bottom with enough force it went halfway down into the hard ground. The receiver broke in half and the stock broke at that point also. The guy didn't have to go to the hospital. But I don't see how he kept from it. The magazine missed his foot by only an inch or two. My friend witnessed this first hand. I have no reason to think he was anything other than honest telling it to me.
This is NOT the same category. The pistol did not blow up. A friend came by the house several times in a month. I happened to notice, he had no hair on his knuckles, backs of his hands or his wrists. I just thought it odd. I asked him about it. He had just bought a S&W 500 mag revolver with something like a 3 inch barrel. The barrel is ported. He was talking at the firing line and didn't get his ammo fired. The sun had gone behind the hills & trees. But it was still light. He said when he touched it off he saw a fire ball (he said basketball sized) completely envelope both his hands up past his wrist watch. I think he stepped his loads back down a bit.
These stories are true as best as I know.
Dealing with the pressures involved in handloading for anything more than a Nano-second will cause catastrophic consequences. Please, please, PLEASE read all the safety warnings every year or so. Take this part of the sport VERY seriously.
And Sako and Simo Hayha Badass of the Week: Simo HayhaLapua is in Finland too... Just to add to the lesson
god forbid you have an issue, but if you did would you say it is more safe to fire an AR rifle in comparison to a bolt action if you do have an issue? because the chamber is surrounded by the receiver? also, it's gas operated allowing the pressure to escape?
What amazes me is the number of guys that start reloading and wont buy a manual. they rely on someone else to tell them a "good" load. Bad juju!
I haven't read about a blown up AR type where the shooter was seriously hurt....May be because they seem to me to have a lot of internal volume for the pressure to vent into and they always seem to blow the mag out/apart, which seems to help consume a lot of the energy generated. JMO
I've blown up 4 ARs and 3 Rem 700s (on purpose under controlled conditions) and while is is extremely hard to rupture an AR barrel, the carrier and receiver liberate a lot more material than the Rem 700s given equivalent over-pressures. Those due to reloading would likely be less severe with a bolt gun than an AR. However, at some point, even a bolt gun will fail and based on the direction of relief, it could potentially be more damaging if you happened to be in the path.
In the article preview in Recoil (When Guns Go Kaboom - RECOIL) there is a photograph of an AR-15 BCG due to an intentional failure. The bottom of the carrier separated at a pretty high velocity and there were a few small fragments from the receiver that separated as well, but otherwise it held together pretty well. The same conditions only ruined the extractor in the Rem700.
In my opinion (non-statistical) I would bet that a squib followed by a full power round is at fault for most reloading related errors. Second would be substitution of an unsuitable powder (Bullseye in a .308).
I can't say that I've tested it, but I think it would be dang near impossible to blow an unobstructed rifle with a mere overcharge of an otherwise correct powder. Heck, many max charges are very close to full already. Filling the case to overflowing and compressing it probably isn't enough to blow the gun apart in most cases.
I can't say that I've tested it, but I think it would be dang near impossible to blow an unobstructed rifle with a mere overcharge of an otherwise correct powder. Heck, many max charges are very close to full already. Filling the case to overflowing and compressing it probably isn't enough to blow the gun apart in most cases.
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I saw a guy blow up a Winchester pre-64 Model 70 .270 at the rifle range about 40 years ago. He had mistakingly used 4895 for 4831. The load was 10+ grains over max. He's lucky he wasn't killed. One of his fingers was blown off, and he he lost his right eye.
Someone said in an earlier post to keep only one powder container on the bench while loading for each cartridge....good advice.
Someone said in an earlier post to keep only one powder container on the bench while loading for each cartridge....good advice.
don't lend your weapon or your reloads_don't reload for Others_ don't shoot reloads or reloaded guns lended from Others_
my only experience comes from blowing up at my first try_ my handgun,my reloads,my ingnorance_ even at today I'm not absolutely, positively SURE about the cause (or more causes together, my stupidity included, leavin'alone our resident monday morning experts)_ I'm happy to not have injuried someone other, or myself: that's enough_
the only real lesson learned is above, and start with the don't(s)_ stay safe
my only experience comes from blowing up at my first try_ my handgun,my reloads,my ingnorance_ even at today I'm not absolutely, positively SURE about the cause (or more causes together, my stupidity included, leavin'alone our resident monday morning experts)_ I'm happy to not have injuried someone other, or myself: that's enough_
the only real lesson learned is above, and start with the don't(s)_ stay safe
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The only gun blow up I've seen was when a friend of mine fired a factory .270 round in his 7mm rem mag. Blew out the bottom metal and could not open the bolt, cracked the stock. Gun was toast and his vision was blurry in his right eye for 3 days. The pours around his right eye were weaping blood. Lucky he did'nt loose his eye.
Last year at a 3 gun match, a guy 30 yards away had a JP kaboom with factory ammo in the middle of a stage. My guess is a squib, although nobody noticed the previous round sounding odd. He wasn't seriously hurt, but it rang his bell.
I've seen 3 rifles blown up. One was an early Class III M1A in an E2 stock, GI bipod and stabilizer. My friend let someone shot his rifle with the proviso "No Reloads". On the 3rd shot the gun blew up. Destroyed the stock magazine and damaged the bolt. Guess what they guy used reloads. Fortunately the receiver and barrel ware not damaged. The other 2 were NDM 86 7.62X54R Draganov's. Both blew up when the shooter was using brass cased ammo in the rifle which is a no no in the 7.62X54R Draganov.
My wife was shooting one of my AR15's in 5.56mm. A case blew by the primer and the upper receiver looked like a banana peel. The magazine ballooned out and the floor plate of the magazine came off. Fortunately wife wasn't injured.
The ammo was sent to a lab, and they said pressures for all the rounds sent in were very consistent at around 48,000 psi, so they were well under max. The lab said that the rounds were like match loads. The powder used was one that the manufacturer said was designed so that you could scoop a case full, and cram the bullet on top of the load to cause a compressed load, and still wouldn't have the round be over pressure.
All we could figure was that I got the 1 in a million defective case with a weak spot by the primer. It was new brass, and all primers were visually inspected for proper seating when they get placed bullet down in the box. Defective case was also the lab's conclusion.
The ammo was sent to a lab, and they said pressures for all the rounds sent in were very consistent at around 48,000 psi, so they were well under max. The lab said that the rounds were like match loads. The powder used was one that the manufacturer said was designed so that you could scoop a case full, and cram the bullet on top of the load to cause a compressed load, and still wouldn't have the round be over pressure.
All we could figure was that I got the 1 in a million defective case with a weak spot by the primer. It was new brass, and all primers were visually inspected for proper seating when they get placed bullet down in the box. Defective case was also the lab's conclusion.
I had a guy next to me shooting a 6br at a relatively fast pace. I heard what sounded like a squib load and started yelling whoa, Whoa at him. He looked at me with a WTF is your problem glare, cycled the bolt and started to aim again. I yelled stop now at him. Then I explained to him what I heard and we pulled his bolt. Sure enough there was a bullet several inches down the barrel. He never noticed the sound difference. That could have gotten ugly. It was a real nice rifle almost turned into a garden stake.
Another time at the range with a friend who had a brand new Weatherby 300wm and some Hornady custom loads. After firing 2 rounds the next one didn't hit the target. Neither did the 4th one. I picked up his brass and all but one of the cases had split about a 1/4 inch long in them.
Another time at the range with a friend who had a brand new Weatherby 300wm and some Hornady custom loads. After firing 2 rounds the next one didn't hit the target. Neither did the 4th one. I picked up his brass and all but one of the cases had split about a 1/4 inch long in them.
