What are your thoughts on trading my TA11 for a 1-4 variable tactical scope. The glass will be mounted on my LEO duty rifle and will be used in a small city with some rural areas. The reason I ask is because I bought a Burris MTAC to mess around with the other day and I kinda like its options but feel it is not designed for true duty use. I want to keep the purchase price of the 1-4 unit close to the price of my ACOG if possible. I want a lighted reticle and have looked at most of the major manufactures but just cant decide. I believe in buying the best but I really dont want to spend 2k plus for a duty scope that gets stored in my trunk. Is the FFP option a huge deal when using the 1-4 scoupes for duty applications. Any thoughts or input would be awsome.
Rifle Scopes ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
- Thread starter k9ghost
- Start date
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
I'd go with a NF 1-4x24. It's SFP but with a 1-4 IMO it's a better choice. FFP in a low variable power can make your reticle change in size a lot. Pricing will be similar even when you throw a quality mount on it.
Leupold has a 1.5-5 that a lot of guys seem to like and Swarovski has something in that range that is apparently a top optic for 3-gun matches. Use the Google custom search tool on the bottom right and you should be able to find a lot of info on these.
I'd go with a NF 1-4x24. It's SFP but with a 1-4 IMO it's a better choice. FFP in a low variable power can make your reticle change in size a lot. Pricing will be similar even when you throw a quality mount on it.
Leupold has a 1.5-5 that a lot of guys seem to like and Swarovski has something in that range that is apparently a top optic for 3-gun matches. Use the Google custom search tool on the bottom right and you should be able to find a lot of info on these.
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
If you want daytime illumination, the Trijicons are about your only options. If you just need an illuminated reticle for low light conditions, then a Nightforce would be a good option, as would the Swaro Z6i, although I think the Nightforce is tougher.
If you want daytime illumination, the Trijicons are about your only options. If you just need an illuminated reticle for low light conditions, then a Nightforce would be a good option, as would the Swaro Z6i, although I think the Nightforce is tougher.
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
Have you considered a red dot sight? Maybe an Aimpoint or EOTech? Based on your operating environment a red dot sight might be more appropriate. I believe the Aimpoint CompM4 has a continuous battery life of 8 years!
Chase B.
Have you considered a red dot sight? Maybe an Aimpoint or EOTech? Based on your operating environment a red dot sight might be more appropriate. I believe the Aimpoint CompM4 has a continuous battery life of 8 years!
Chase B.
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
This is a topic that I am really interested in right now. Am working on an article on the subject that hopefully some publication will pick up... But the title is tentatively "Precision Optics and the Patrol Rifle."
We have been issuing Red Dots on our patrol for going-on 10 years. These range from EO-Tech's to a couple of Trijicons. These are certainly ok in close range... but not ideal at the longer ranges we may be faced with in a rural area.
Virtually everyone here has a deer rifle and can shoot your pinkey off at 300 yds. So patrol rifles with optics optimized for 50 yd (or even room-clearing) ranges aren't an advantage. They can be considered an officer safety hazard as they require you being close to a suspect with much more range.
So in the last two years, we have been starting to move more towards a better optic and starting to train folks to ranges out to 200 yds w. AR-style patrol rifles. In addition, we have added 2 precision marksmen with bolt .308's, myself included.
Our dept started the patrol rifle transition from red-dot to a more precision optic with a couple of ACOG 4X units with Doktor optic on top. This gives a good hybrid of close-in with a longer engagement capability. In range training out to 200, the magnified optics are so superior to the dots that it's barely a comparison.
Latest, we are starting to move at some of our rifles to a 1.5 - 6X USO SN-series with the C2 Reticle. The first one has gone on my LE Match Colt M4. The additional rifles will go to some of our officers who have had some additional training and who are subject to 4 annual quals (instead of 2) and are set up for more of a Designated Marksman role. Additional training and higher marksmanship standards.
So I am a huge proponant of upgrading the optics on patrol rifles. I'd be very interested in PMing or communicating with LE's who are also looking at this topic. As I mentioned, hoping to turn this into an article and make a case for this direction, especially for rural departments!
Cheers,
Sirhr
The
This is a topic that I am really interested in right now. Am working on an article on the subject that hopefully some publication will pick up... But the title is tentatively "Precision Optics and the Patrol Rifle."
We have been issuing Red Dots on our patrol for going-on 10 years. These range from EO-Tech's to a couple of Trijicons. These are certainly ok in close range... but not ideal at the longer ranges we may be faced with in a rural area.
Virtually everyone here has a deer rifle and can shoot your pinkey off at 300 yds. So patrol rifles with optics optimized for 50 yd (or even room-clearing) ranges aren't an advantage. They can be considered an officer safety hazard as they require you being close to a suspect with much more range.
So in the last two years, we have been starting to move more towards a better optic and starting to train folks to ranges out to 200 yds w. AR-style patrol rifles. In addition, we have added 2 precision marksmen with bolt .308's, myself included.
Our dept started the patrol rifle transition from red-dot to a more precision optic with a couple of ACOG 4X units with Doktor optic on top. This gives a good hybrid of close-in with a longer engagement capability. In range training out to 200, the magnified optics are so superior to the dots that it's barely a comparison.
Latest, we are starting to move at some of our rifles to a 1.5 - 6X USO SN-series with the C2 Reticle. The first one has gone on my LE Match Colt M4. The additional rifles will go to some of our officers who have had some additional training and who are subject to 4 annual quals (instead of 2) and are set up for more of a Designated Marksman role. Additional training and higher marksmanship standards.
So I am a huge proponant of upgrading the optics on patrol rifles. I'd be very interested in PMing or communicating with LE's who are also looking at this topic. As I mentioned, hoping to turn this into an article and make a case for this direction, especially for rural departments!
Cheers,
Sirhr
The
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
My only problem with using an RCO for precision work is either you will need to mount it on a rifle for which its BDC is matched (appropriate ballistics) and concider yourself only effective at 0-100m, 200m, 300m and 500m OR rely on the ability of the RCO to dial elevation...which from my experience within the Corps, I would not recommend.
An illum. USO or NF 1-4 would lend itself as well as any red-dot in close quarters, as effective as anyone could be with a bolt rifle in a situation like that... a variable power illuminated optic on 1x, illuminated and shot with both eyes open gives up what to a red dot?
We (Marines) are trained to look OVER our RCO in a CQ environment anyway, and in low light, well, you will need a bigger budget...
My only problem with using an RCO for precision work is either you will need to mount it on a rifle for which its BDC is matched (appropriate ballistics) and concider yourself only effective at 0-100m, 200m, 300m and 500m OR rely on the ability of the RCO to dial elevation...which from my experience within the Corps, I would not recommend.
An illum. USO or NF 1-4 would lend itself as well as any red-dot in close quarters, as effective as anyone could be with a bolt rifle in a situation like that... a variable power illuminated optic on 1x, illuminated and shot with both eyes open gives up what to a red dot?
We (Marines) are trained to look OVER our RCO in a CQ environment anyway, and in low light, well, you will need a bigger budget...
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
Thanks guys for the posts. I have an Aimpoint on Comp 2 on my patrol rifle now and it has served me well. It is the optic I seem to keep going back to for the most part. I also have several MRDS, 2 JPoints, Insight Tech MRDS and a Leupold Delta these sights are all great and I havn't had any real problems with any of them. I have one of them mounted on my 870 SG and two on my M&P pistols from David Bowie. Lately I have been lurkin around on Brian Enos' forum and feel the 3 gun world is very comparable to what I may encounterd on duty as far as variable distances go. So after reading a few pots over there I bought the Burris MTAC just to get my feet wet with a 1-4 type scope. When I set it up on my M4 the other day and took it to the range I found it worked well as a red dot and as a traditional powered scope. If I go this route I want a rugged unit that will hold up to real world crap (thrown in the trunk and tossed around while on patrol. I also like the illuminated reticle but have to make sure the unit is day light visible and performs when inside for building entry/searches. I know some of my MRDS sights seem to go dim when in a dark room using a flashlight. I hope everyone will continue to help me make a decision weather or not to go this route.
Thanks guys for the posts. I have an Aimpoint on Comp 2 on my patrol rifle now and it has served me well. It is the optic I seem to keep going back to for the most part. I also have several MRDS, 2 JPoints, Insight Tech MRDS and a Leupold Delta these sights are all great and I havn't had any real problems with any of them. I have one of them mounted on my 870 SG and two on my M&P pistols from David Bowie. Lately I have been lurkin around on Brian Enos' forum and feel the 3 gun world is very comparable to what I may encounterd on duty as far as variable distances go. So after reading a few pots over there I bought the Burris MTAC just to get my feet wet with a 1-4 type scope. When I set it up on my M4 the other day and took it to the range I found it worked well as a red dot and as a traditional powered scope. If I go this route I want a rugged unit that will hold up to real world crap (thrown in the trunk and tossed around while on patrol. I also like the illuminated reticle but have to make sure the unit is day light visible and performs when inside for building entry/searches. I know some of my MRDS sights seem to go dim when in a dark room using a flashlight. I hope everyone will continue to help me make a decision weather or not to go this route.
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
Ok - I think I get it a little better now.
My thoughts in a nut shell: the facts of gun fights don't change because of what rifle you have in your hand when they start. The vast majority are at bad breath distance, in the dark with both parties trying real hard to not get shot (moving). Your aimpoint is going to be the ideal the vast majority of the time.
However, you are on occasion going to be a perimeter guy, searching an open field, or want magnification to see little better through that window to see if the bad guy has something in his hands.
Most of the time I wanted to do that, I knew about it well in advance. I had distance and time on my side. My recomendation is to have two optics: an aimpoint left on the rifle in a QD mount (larue, ADM, etc), and a low power variable in another QD mount. If you have time/distance, throw the variable on. It can be turned down if you have to close the gap, and turned up to see better. But it's still not going to be as fast as your aimpoint, and nowhere near as forgiving in awkward positions that you have to assume quickly. Plus, the aimpoint can be left on for the better part of forever and is unlikely to let you down. If you go for a battey powered low powered variable, you're going to eat batteries much quicker, and that ability to use it as a RDS might not be there when you need it in a hurry.
Just foor for thought.
Ok - I think I get it a little better now.
My thoughts in a nut shell: the facts of gun fights don't change because of what rifle you have in your hand when they start. The vast majority are at bad breath distance, in the dark with both parties trying real hard to not get shot (moving). Your aimpoint is going to be the ideal the vast majority of the time.
However, you are on occasion going to be a perimeter guy, searching an open field, or want magnification to see little better through that window to see if the bad guy has something in his hands.
Most of the time I wanted to do that, I knew about it well in advance. I had distance and time on my side. My recomendation is to have two optics: an aimpoint left on the rifle in a QD mount (larue, ADM, etc), and a low power variable in another QD mount. If you have time/distance, throw the variable on. It can be turned down if you have to close the gap, and turned up to see better. But it's still not going to be as fast as your aimpoint, and nowhere near as forgiving in awkward positions that you have to assume quickly. Plus, the aimpoint can be left on for the better part of forever and is unlikely to let you down. If you go for a battey powered low powered variable, you're going to eat batteries much quicker, and that ability to use it as a RDS might not be there when you need it in a hurry.
Just foor for thought.
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
I have ACOG's on several rifles and a NF 1-4X24 NXS on my LMT. If I had it to do over again I would have bought all NF 1-4X24NXS of 1-4x32 NXS for all my AR's
I have ACOG's on several rifles and a NF 1-4X24 NXS on my LMT. If I had it to do over again I would have bought all NF 1-4X24NXS of 1-4x32 NXS for all my AR's
Re: ACOG TA11 or 1-4 scope ?
i looked at a bunch of 1-4 power scopes a while ago. a lot of the reticles become too fine and hard to see against a busy backdrop.
i like the SWFA offering. the reticle is very easy to use at all magnification settings.
i've been using EOTechs for a long time and for that reason, i really like the USO SN-4 with the circle dot reticle.
there was a post on here a few months ago where someone compared several 1-4x scopes. it was a very well done write up. if someone could post the link, i think it would help the OP.
i looked at a bunch of 1-4 power scopes a while ago. a lot of the reticles become too fine and hard to see against a busy backdrop.
i like the SWFA offering. the reticle is very easy to use at all magnification settings.
i've been using EOTechs for a long time and for that reason, i really like the USO SN-4 with the circle dot reticle.
there was a post on here a few months ago where someone compared several 1-4x scopes. it was a very well done write up. if someone could post the link, i think it would help the OP.
