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Fieldcraft ACU Camouflage pattern really that bad?

NevadaZielmeister

NevadaZielmeister

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 1, 2013
694
13
Northern Nevada
Gentlemen,

I am not an "operator" or a sniper. I am a long range shooter who got a great deal on this Eberlestock Phantom pack for use in future sniper competitions. Here it is in ACU digital camp pattern on my hike today:

<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg"/></a>

It is my understanding that the US Army really hates this pattern, but with this photo, it works right in. Now granted, Glen Eberle put more green in his ACU pattern, but still, you would spot my dog before you spot the pack, right?

Any thoughts from real experts in the field of sniper craft?
 
KR1 said:
The camo works better than I would have guessed in the vegetation shown.
I need to come shoot with you! Awesome location.
Click to expand...

Thank you KR1. That is the valley I live in. My house is near the edge of the houses at the bottom of the valley. You are welcome here anytime.
 
Yes, it IS really that bad and I can say that unequivocally having used it in every environment operationally. You have to get it filthy dirty and or spray paint other colors on it to get it to start to actually blend effectively in a fluid environment. In some environments, its like wearing a white sheet.

pic_thousand_words.jpg
 
Fox,
that's gotta be one of the best pics I seen on here..!!

Was that one of the design specs for that pattern? I've seen it 'outside' too and it sticks out like a sore thumb.....but not on that couch...

Think it would work in an all girls boarding school? Just wondering......
 
Everyone in the Army has seen that picture. If they haven't then that's the first I've heard of someone NOT seeing it.

Hence it's nickname...

Couch Camo
 
Parsons said:
My buddies that were military hate the ACU's. They say the only thing they blend with is a pile of rocks
Click to expand...

I always say gravel parking lots. I had I LTC and MAJ I was showing around Afghanistan both only coming for a week came in ACUs they stuck out so much. The roomer I heard was ACU was the rejected Marine camo when they went to digital, but it was a Marine telling me this so not sure how true it is. What I do know is digital camo are designed to work with digital optics, NVG, Satellites, UAVs etc.
 
mustard23 said:
I always say gravel parking lots. I had I LTC and MAJ I was showing around Afghanistan both only coming for a week came in ACUs they stuck out so much. The roomer I heard was ACU was the rejected Marine camo when they went to digital, but it was a Marine telling me this so not sure how true it is. What I do know is digital camo are designed to work with digital optics, NVG, Satellites, UAVs etc.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that we (the Marines) adopted the MarPat from the CadPat (Canadian digital). The Army wanted to use the MarPat also, but were told "no" by the Marine Corps, so they developed their own digital pattern (ACU). The USMC has a patent on the MarPat and licenses its use.

Somewhere between what you heard and what I've heard is probably close to the truth; but the ACU is pretty much worthless as a concealment pattern.
 
The two places I've seen the ACU pattern actually work well is in sage brush, and in certain places where snow lightly covers the ground and surrounding vegetation during flat light conditions.
 
NevadaZielmeister said:
Gentlemen,

I am not an "operator" or a sniper. I am a long range shooter who got a great deal on this Eberlestock Phantom pack for use in future sniper competitions. Here it is in ACU digital camp pattern on my hike today:

<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo photo-13_zpsb5023a8f.jpg"/></a>

It is my understanding that the US Army really hates this pattern, but with this photo, it works right in. Now granted, Glen Eberle put more green in his ACU pattern, but still, you would spot my dog before you spot the pack, right?

Any thoughts from real experts in the field of sniper craft?
Click to expand...

That picture made me do a double take. Hi neighbor :)

Might have to meet up sometime.
 
Bogeybrown, you are partly right. The MarPat came from the CadPat which in turn came from a bunch of digital patterns the Army was testing in the mid 90s, then dropped, prolly due to budgeting issues. From what little I've been able to find on this whole uniform SNAFU, MultiCam was the Army front runner until the USMC debuted their digital, and then the Army decided (against all better recommendations) to "one up" everyone with a universal pattern, that as it turns out works universally no where.

This current Gucciflage trend is one of the dumbest things the DOD allowed to happen in quite some time. There are many advantages to the tried and true common procurement program that was in place until the designer uniforms became the rage in '03.
 
ACu is the best pattern ever......if someone is looking at you in nods.....and you are laying on a gravel pile
 
Just to update this, the army went through a series of hell and then picked 4 final patterns to decide between. Everyone knew Multicam would win as it would be cheaper. Rumor on post is they will be running a seasonal pattern again "Woodland Winter" and "Arid Summer" like the USMC. Now the trick here is that the middle pattern will be on all the TA-50 which is the color the Army currently wear's in Stan to save money on coloring every piece of equipment its pattern. No clue when this will happen i dont really care anymore, who cares what i wear in garrison OD greens are fine for me. The ACU looks like shit and that makes us look like shit in garrison, i would not mind actually looking sharp again. When we deploy give us what we need. You see my point. We also had a revamp on PT's SMH, i have seen those pop up rarely.
 
I spotted your pack instantly. The shape gave it away. I saw it before the dog. It blends better in your picture than it would, just because of the sun position. If the sun were at your back, it would have been really bright.
 
put the couch out there, if it blends in better than the pack, then go with the martha stewart floral slipcover

there was a ACU vs other patterns pictorial thread here somewhere, it was surprising how well it worked in some environments, complete fail in others.

IMO, the ol' popcorn desert was the best for everything short of an all white or all green environment.

no pattern is going to do the job in all environments.

why can't i stop typing environment

no pattern is going to cover everything all the time, that's why you don't look for something or someone in it's entirety, but parts of it - like a whitetail's ear, eye, or the V of their tail, etc. when deer hunting. when hunting "other things" bright small uncovered areas, straight lines, and shapes of anticipated gear stick out like a sore thumb, something any regular camo can't cover.

they might save more $ if they issue tan & white BDUs, green, black, and brown sharpies, and a set of paper stencils. :D
 
It's not that bad: On a limestone rock face, in the rain.

......Don't ask.
 
Much ado about nothing. Camo is designed to be effective in a given environment. ACU was designed by computers as a compromise for all environments. The military had the best camo ever with 'olive drab'. Blended in everywhere, green, brown trees, grass, light, dark. They got silly and had to follow the UN's lead. Best they have now 'is' Multicam, but it too is a compromise. Better than ACU, but just barely. Need something that truly gives our young men an edge. Perhaps they will eventually get it right. Different camo for different missions works best, but the GAO is limiting how much the military can spend. Trying to force one pattern for the entire armed forces. Can you really see The Navy wearing Multicam on sea duty??
 
Dark Angel said:
Much ado about nothing. Camo is designed to be effective in a given environment. ACU was designed by computers as a compromise for all environments. The military had the best camo ever with 'olive drab'. Blended in everywhere, green, brown trees, grass, light, dark. They got silly and had to follow the UN's lead. Best they have now 'is' Multicam, but it too is a compromise. Better than ACU, but just barely. Need something that truly gives our young men an edge. Perhaps they will eventually get it right. Different camo for different missions works best, but the GAO is limiting how much the military can spend. Trying to force one pattern for the entire armed forces. Can you really see The Navy wearing Multicam on sea duty??
Click to expand...

I'm just going to have to say that you might want to do some recent camo research as your statement(s) are not accurate with regard to the olive drab comment and the MC "barely" being better than ACU comment. I've worn OG 107s and am currently wearing MC uniforms for work and it is my ( and most others in the Military, to include the Natick PEO Soldier testing results) opinion that MC IS the best out of everything that is out there at the moment.
 
Papa Zero Three. All camo is a compromise, there is no such thing as 'perfect camo'. Wore OD in Vietnam, wore Tiger Stripe, same place. As an Independent Contractor (read PMC
now), I've worn the camo of a dozen nations. OD has always been my choice when given a preference. Multi Cam just happens to be the 'go to' choice for now, later something else will replace it as this fascination wears off or the powers that be decide something new and different is more effective. If we're just picking camo patterns out of the air, two civilian patterns stand out as at least as effective: Smokey Branch and Real Tree. Worn these hunting. At least the white tails I shot saw me.
 
Dark Angel said:
Papa Zero Three. All camo is a compromise, there is no such thing as 'perfect camo'. Wore OD in Vietnam, wore Tiger Stripe, same place. As an Independent Contractor (read PMC
now), I've worn the camo of a dozen nations. OD has always been my choice when given a preference. Multi Cam just happens to be the 'go to' choice for now, later something else will replace it as this fascination wears off or the powers that be decide something new and different is more effective. If we're just picking camo patterns out of the air, two civilian patterns stand out as at least as effective: Smokey Branch and Real Tree. Worn these hunting. At least the white tails I shot saw me.
Click to expand...

Olive drab, aka 107s, as a color, does tend to blend well with the surroundings until its been washed so much that it almost turns white. However, it has HORRIBLE IR signature at night and when wet as it turns the wearer into a large black blob that is easily picked up. MC has been tested scientifically against other pattens several times and has always been the best of the bunch, so its not just "picking something out of the air". I do not disagree that there is always a compromise, nothing is 100% for all environments, that is a given. Perhaps something will replace MC in the future but I highly suggest you read some of the actual testing results that have been done on all of the patterns out there. Granted , it is a "war and peace" type of a read but it becomes glaringly apparent which pattern(s) are better than others.
 
Not to be nit picky, but the pattern is UCP (Universal Camo Pattern) and it is what the ACU (Advanced Combat Uniform) is using... There is no ACU pattern...

carry on...


And yeah, the pattern sucks.... Luckily I retired under the Woodland Camo BDU pattern....
 
Papa Zero Three, have read the research. Boooring! I keep abreast of such things, why? Cammo is interesting. It is developed for a specific region and (sometimes) country. Worked a place (won't say where) the local cammo consisted of brown(ish), green, black leaf designs with bright red flowers spaced about. Gaudiest thing I'd ever seen, refused to wear it.
However; it worked well in the jungle area it was designed for (full of brown(ish), green and black leaves with bright red flower all around.
Too, FYI, read the research on a reflective cammo, the military was looking into. Consisted of hundreds of reflective surfaces that mirrored the surrounding scenery. It too, worked sort-of. Other research is/was being done on some sort of half assed wearable cloaking device ala Star Trek. Now, Harv24. Woodland worked fine in the Northeastern woods for which it had been designed. Missed its trial in Vietnam but I understand from some who wore it over there that it was an unmitigated disaster. Just hear-say of course.
 
Vic at TNVC is always testing camo against IR and sometimes thermal detection. Everything from common surfaces and materials, to paints, Cerakote-type finishes, and of course, camo clothing.

One set of clothes and pattern performed REALLY well, at night VERY well in fact, and as well if not better than, woodland or multicam for daytime use in rural/wilderness/wooded America. I think it was maybe designed by some retired SF guys? I forget, and I also forget if they had other patterns. I've been meaning to ask him about it but I keep forgetting. I may send him a PM now while it's fresh in my mind.

Our unit "tested" ACU along with four or five other digital patterns just prior to their deployment (and my ETS). One a lot like the marine pattern, one like ACU but with sage green in it (worked great at YTC) this one that looked kind of like the Canadian colors but our digital pattern IIRC, and I *think* this other one, maybe digital desert brown/tan? We got the ACU and everyone called it urban camo. For blown to shit concrete and sand at distance, it seems like a good idea I guess. Also, at distance, all colors tend to gray the farther you are, so it works in that respect. But bear in mind, it was chosen specifically for use in Iraq and Asstan, particularly Iraq.

Multicam is better "all around" and the two ATACS patterns --green/brown for grass and woodlands, and tan/brown for desert and waste lands-- are really nice too IMO, and woodland is still great for US woodlands, though not sure about after dark, wet and with NODs. I guess much of which has to do with which manufacturer and more with the dies and materials they used as it does the pattern or anything else.

Barring NODs, plain, solid OD green and forest green and coyote brown, sometimes mixed gear, sometimes not, can work amazingly well during the day on the ground.
 
A buddy of mine and I did some testing a few weeks ago. His MARPAT stood out like crazy in the dead Midwestern woods during inter. My coyote brown was harder to see. Once summer comes around I'm sure that will be flipped. But it was the black and OD in his cammies that made it stand out. His multicam worked better a few weeks before but he has lots of MARPAT leftover from the Marine Corp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
earthquake said:
Had to do it:

CamouflageCouch.jpg
Click to expand...

<a href="http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/NeilGift/media/AdvancedCamo_zpsf1666f9e.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b636/NeilGift/AdvancedCamo_zpsf1666f9e.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo AdvancedCamo_zpsf1666f9e.jpg"/></a>

This one is good also, right? "Watch yer step LT, we have a sniper trainee workin' the hallway.."
 
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