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After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

MountainRogue

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 23, 2009
100
13
Hunt, MT, USA
She's finally complete, the 1000yd (2000+yd
grin.gif
) rifle!

There have been a couple posts on the products described within so my intention is to review them on what I believe is the first .50BMG and .416 Barrett rifle to this board with these products, not one of those little .408 pop guns some have showed us. Just kidding guys (JimmyM40a2, Goldbeachman, Dogtown, etc.) I don't want to start a holy war on calibers here. Your rifles and photos gave us inspiration during this important build. Thank you.

To start, I talked with Bill Ritchie almost a year ago, to the week, about this build. It's an EDM M-96 Windrunner 50bmg with an additional 416 Barrett barrel conversion. We elected to have all the bells and whistles: upgraded stock with adjustable cheek rest, a crisp 8oz. and 2lb. adjustable Kepplinger trigger, stock rail stiffener, etc. We changed out the EDM rail with a USO 20moa rail. Then we began the quest to change out the EDM bipod with a cant capable bipod and put on a viable railed forearm so a PVS-22 could be mounted correctly.

EDM makes one of the best bolt action and breakdown rifle platforms in the industry hands down. That's why we went with it. The machining is top notch and the reputation of EDM/Bill Ritchie speaks for itself. But I digress.

The final, and what we think is some of the best, upgrades are the RND railed hand guard and the new RND bipod. The machine work is awesome and very tight. The hand guard is screwed on to a turned down and threaded EDM barrel nut (done by RND). A stop nut is used to tune the rails to exactly line up. It's built very strong and shows no change nor flex when the full weight of the rifle is put on the hand guard. The rails can be custom cut to length, I believe, but you will have to check with RND. I have no affiliation with RND so I can't speak for their products any more than actual use and customer service experience. So let's get that out of the way... EDM and RND have the best customer service in this industry. They actually answer the phone when you call and respond to emails! Yeah I know, crazy isn't it!?!?!?

Moreover, the RND bipod is awesome. We have owned and used cheytac bipods and I/we can say with real experience the RND is better. We procured, and were actually planning to use, the cheytac bipod for this build and once we got it in and tested it against the RND our choice was easy. The RND all the way. The RND is made out of steel and the tolerances are tighter and it offers a more stable platform while also giving more control of the leg extension length. Both important attributes for a bipod. Again, it is rock solid. The collar plates where the legs lock in to the collar are made of steel and are easily replaceable with a couple bolts vs. the one piece aluminum cheytac collar that is not as well engineered nor replaceable. Also a very important attribute in testing was the RND legs have minimal recoil flex when shooting the rifle. We can't say the same for the cheytac.

*Note: A point that needs to be made, in fairness, EDM sells a mount for a PVS-22 but was not our best option for the overall build requirements. Also, the EDM bipod is one of the most rugged bipods made. We just wanted to be able to cant this platform differently than the EDM bipods capabilities.

You can find info on the EDM Windrunners at: EDM website

You can learn about the great semiauto rifles that RND builds and contact RND for a hand guard and bipod for the 408 and 50bmg Windrunners through their website: RND website

*Special note: The EDM 408 and 50bmg recievers are different in size and thus have different barrel nuts.

Please enjoy the photos. I just rebuilt the camera from a freak accident (read: blonde, female, beach, drinks, etc) and it still isn't working great. But I think you will enjoy anyways. I also didn't want to get hit with the 'ole "this post is useless without pics".

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I hope this post can help some of you with your new builds or upgrades to your existing hole punchers.

Disclosure:
*Each question will be answered in the order of payment of $20.
**Each question can be expedited for an additional $10.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Yea Id say thats pretty bad ass.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

That is a beutiful rifle. I just place an order for the RND M96 handguard and glad that I did. I will hold off on the bipod as funds permit. Good news about the lack of "flex when the full weight of the rifle is put on the hand guard".

Is the bipod really that stout and better than the Cheytac model? It looks very well made.

Thanks,
Scott E.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Mountain rogue that looks great. Congratulations on the set up. I would love to see that being touched off at night with the pvs-22. You just need a can for that thing!
One clarification the RND bipod has steel legs but the "circle" is aluminum to keep weight down. It is very solid.
I can't wait to hear how the 416 shoots thanks for the photos.

what is the range you can see at night with the pvs-22 on a clear night?
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

JPmuscle - Thanks man, much appreciated.

s2324 - Thank you. You made the right decision. RND will take care of you. From our testing and having both Cheytac and RND in our hands and on rifles the RND is tighter, stronger, shows less flex, has the replaceable steel collar plate and gives more freedom of exact leg height. It was a simple choice.

JimmyM40A2 - Thanks man that means a lot. You were the first to put the RND hand guard on your 408 and the person that got us working with RND on the 50bmg version. Yes, agreed the collar is aluminum and the collar plates that the legs attach to are steel.

Guys, FYI Jimmy knows more about these hand guards and bipods from both RND and Cheytac than I will ever know. So go with the pro on the subject if you have questions.

Yeah Jimmy we can't wait to lite her up. The 50bmg barrel has been shot and is less than .5moa but that has only been tested up to 300 yds. The 416B load needs to be worked up and proved out. You will need to build us the can for this fire dragon. One or two, hmmmm?

On a very clear night (no humidity) we have been able to see a human size object at ~750yds in front of the NF 5-22x56 set at 10 power. We also had an IR torch to aid. We haven't tested it any further, but I think it will go out to ~1000 if conditions are perfect, but that seems to never happen. I don't know if I would take a shot at that distance with it but we shall see.

Guru - No BORS man sorry, it would weigh the rifle down too much LOL!

Thanks all for the nice comments. I hope I answered your questions.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Darrel you can rotate the tube in the guard a full 360 if you want. There is a tension screw on the bottom that you can loosen up to rotate it. You can leave it tight or slightly loose so the gun levels on uneven ground or you can use the legs to level the gun. The legs are 12 inches and extend to 17 and he (RND) also makes a shorter version that is 8 inches and extends to 12.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Mountain Rogue,

I was thinking about the Keplinger trigger, didn't know that EDM offers that option. How do you like the trigger? I do not have any experiene on the Keplinger trigger, but have good things about them.

Thanks,
Scott E.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

s2324,

Yeah Bill will do the Kepplinger trigger job for ya at EDM. You have to find an old Rem 700 trigger, not the new ones, and send it to him with the Kepplinger. We like the trigger action and crisp break but I personally don't like the trigger finger hook much.

Kepplinger at Brownells

*Be advised the Kepplinger trigger is for expert shooters that know their rifles. This is not a trigger for in the bush. It's really for benchrest. We use the 2lb trigger for everything and then go to the 8oz. if on a very, very stable shooting platform. I would put it on as an upgrade after you have learned your rifle. It is not a necessity by any means.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Your missing a suppressor! hahah. yes you need one of those too. Jimmy and I have been talking about how we plan to build the cans for our guns, you have any plans on making one?

CJG
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Really like the Kepplinger on my M96 also. You can just about touch the thing off. I do like the new style forearm and bipod. Very nice. Mine is set up the same as yours except for the USO rail. The factory bipod is although very heavy duty is also very crude. You have to muscle and bend the arms around to make them function. For as much as I paid for it new with all the bells and whistles Bill had at the time the bipod almost seemed an afterthought.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

I also was pretty disappointed with the stock edm bypod. in all reality it $20 worth of material that took 30 minutes to weld together. Little or no adjustment. For field use and shooting prone off the ground it has proven useless to me. If i did nothing but shoot off a bench it could get me by, but off the ground, things are never level side to side and it just doesn't cut it.

CJG
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

I saw the nut area in the shop. The barrel nut was about a quarter inch bigger than the nut on my 408 so he made a special tube that was larger on that end to accomidate the larger size. It came out real slick and the picitanny rails were designed with the "flare" built in. I think mountain rogue is now out of town for a few days maybe when he gets back he can post some more pics.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

I'm in and out Jimmy, thanks. You know more about this stuff than I; so guys never worry about highjacking one of my threads to ask Jimmy or anyone a question.

Rotortuner- Yeah I have an idea or two about a viable suppressor design. We have a lot of barrel to play with so it would be interesting if we could get a very large rear baffle with directed porting over the barrel and then directed porting/baffle the rest of the can out the front. I like titanium.

Goldbeachman- Thank you. So is your new stick. I'm jealous where you get to lite it up. I spent a lot of time up the Rogue (hence my handle).

Mechanic- Per your request... Sorry the pictures aren't great. I will break it down and take better pics of the parts next.

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Regards,

Mountain Rogue

 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Can the rails be removed?
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

zunrj5- The rails can be removed from the RND hand guard but you want to call them to make sure when you place your order. We also replaced the scope rail on the EDM with a USO so it matches the milspec rails on the RND.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

How much is the RND bi-pod and have you ever attached one by way of an adaptive fitting to a McM A5?
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

M. Rogue- Thanks for the response. I intend to give mine the hand guard treatment too as soon as I find a better brake.

I feel your pain on the factory rail. I had to mill the cross bars on a set of rings so they would. The USO rail looks nice, I like the fact that it gives you a bit more rearward real-estate.

-John
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Give Bobbey @ Lawton Machine a call. They have a very effective brake.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Mountain,

Any particular reason you went with the 416 instead of the 375/408
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

If I had to guess, EDM arms was making the factory barrels for .50 DTC and .416 Barret. He (Bill) wasn't making the .375 at the time I bought mine but was pushing the .416 for the added speed and sales to Kalifornia. Just that the .416 hasn't caught on and has not had the success of the .408 and .375
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

MyGun1- The Lawton brakes are great. I have one one on my .375 and it's a pussycat. I'm waiting on an Elite Iron Max brake for my Windrunner. Can't wait to try it out.

-John
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had to guess, EDM arms was making the factory barrels for .50 DTC and .416 Barret. He (Bill) wasn't making the .375 at the time I bought mine but was pushing the .416 for the added speed and sales to Kalifornia. Just that the .416 hasn't caught on and has not had the success of the .408 and .375 </div></div>

EDM is selling .375 barrels and conversions now? Last time I asked Bill didn't want to bother with it.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

So at what point did I say he was selling .375 barrels and conversions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newguy2k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I had to guess, EDM arms was making the factory barrels for .50 DTC and .416 Barret. He (Bill) wasn't making the .375 at the time I bought mine but was pushing the .416 for the added speed and sales to Kalifornia. Just that the .416 hasn't caught on and has not had the success of the .408 and .375 </div></div>

EDM is selling .375 barrels and conversions now? Last time I asked Bill didn't want to bother with it.</div></div>
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

JPMucscle-

The rationale is matching the wildcat round back to the base cartridge. Thus, you have a single bolt and same action with standard pressures, etc. We went with the .416 Barrett for it works with the .50bmg rifle where the .375 goes best with the .408.

I'll explain further. The .416 Barrett round takes the same bolt as the .50BMG for the .416 Barrett is a wildcat off of the .50bmg case. With the M96 all you do is switch out the barrel. Boom, two guns in one single action and same bolt. This is the value propostion of the EDM Windrunners - fast barrel changes and ability to change like calibers. I am sure you could viably put a .375 on a .50bmg M96 action. Heck I have seen .338 Lapua barrels on M96 .50BMG actions but it doesn't make sense to me weight to round capability ratio's, et al.

The action of the .50bmg is something like 30% larger than the .408 Windrunner. Different action, different bolts, etc., etc.

The .408 Windrunner uses the same bolt as the .375. Thus, the .375 would be best with the .408 Windrunner. That simple.

Also, to back up The Mechanic, I haven't heard EDM offering barreling in the .375 Cheytac. But I cannot confirm such and won't call Bill to ask. If you go to the actual EDM site I listed above and go to the news page you will see...

"Ammunition sale!
408 Cheytac and 375 Cheytac Brass, $2.68 408, 375 and 338 RMB Bullets $1.98".

So it seems EDM is selling .375 Cheytac components. It's up to everyone to do their own due diligence on such questions.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

ah gotchya, I forgot the bolts were same. I retract my previous question due to my inability to follow logic.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

JPmuscle-

Glad I could help. But if we are going to bring logic into this thread we run the risk of getting it locked.

BTW, IMHO, if/when I go with a .375CT, since it is a much lighter action than the .50BMG I would build it in a Manners stock on a Lawton action and barrel.

Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a couple of good close ups of the barrel nut area. </div></div>

Mechanic,

Sorry for the wait Bud but the camera crapped out, again. I got it working today for ya. Again, sorry about the poor pic quality. Hope they answer any questions.

Did I say that RND does incredible work? The barrel nut is very well threaded and it is a tight fit in to the hand guard. The stop nut as well is of exact tolerances and is an awesome way to align the rails. IMHO, and through actual experience with both, I think the RND is a superior design to the Cheytac tube clamp and under barrel carry handle design. Disclosure: I have no affiliation with RND nor Cheytac. Full retail was paid for all items. Please contact RND for pricing and availability.

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Regards,

Mountain Rogue
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

That is very nicely done. I don't think I'm going to have any second thoughts about getting this done to mine as soon as EDM finishes it.

Just curious, why the bottom rail on the tube?
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

im guessing the carry handle may still be utilized
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Man that is one beautiful Lady(Rifle). For the can boy that's gonna be one pricey piece, you can go to www.deltapress.com and pick up How to build Military Grade Suppressors .22 thru .50 BMG and build it yourself and save a ton of money. Making them Holy at 2000 and beyond riky tik and in a hurry can definitely be accomplished with this Long Range Beauty.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

OK, so you've proclaimed it one of the best bolt action take down rifles. Question - how much have you actually shot it and under what conditions? Have you gotten beyond the "living room evaluation" stage yet?
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

I really enjoyed the thread and pics, thanks for sharing. Always great to see a thoughtful design come to life.

Nothing worse than watching your expensive UNS rotate right around under .50 fire, or the stress of the bipod constantly working against your secondary ring. Now you've got perfect timing and perfect lock-up off Bill's original bipod pin hole. Pull the pin and rotate away! Nice knurl on the secondary ring for you too, but your not going to even need it now..Merry Xmas.

If you can get your wrap under, move the UNS forward until the UNS dust cap rest 1/4" on top of the scope.

timed-knurl2.jpg




 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Sorry, been out of pocket for a while.

JPMuscle - I don't think EDM makes a carry handle. If you are talking about the Cheytac carry handle, I don't think it will work with this design due to the different size tube and the rails. I personally think the Cheytac rail is a support mechanism for a less than superior design. But again, that is an opinion.

Shadowflight762 - I think since cost was not a huge determinant/deterrent for this project I would go with a professionally manufactured and tested can. I am neither a machinist by trade nor an expert in sound reduction characteristics of ballistics.

9h – I have owned an EDM before and I am “proclaiming” nothing. Empirical data proves from previous matches around the USA that the EDM Windrunner is one of the top performers and wins a considerable amount of matches. This platform has been through the initial stages of break in and load development with shots taken at 742ft above sea level on a clear day and in rain, 2500 ft above sea level on clear and high humidity days and at 8400ft above sea level on a clear, dry day. All groups patterned well at distances between 100yds and 800yds at .4moa and out to .85moa. Again, load development needs to be performed and perfected. Now that I think about it, why am I wasting my time typing all this for you? It could just be my current mood or how you wrote your post above “proclaiming” and “living room evaluation” but I don’t take your question positively. I think I will simply state: Go hump someone else’s leg.

Rollingthunder51- I really enjoyed your pictures and ideas of how to improve the functionality through your after market products. If ever that career in Photoshop doesn’t work out for you, you certainly could startup a mechanical/product design business. I liked the picture you pulled as well. BTW, RND does make the stop nut with knurls and they will be sending me one soon. This one was the prototype and the stop nut was shipped before final version.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Mountain Rogue, glad you enjoyed them. The truth of it is that this problem had to be solved for others and that solution did not allow for the tube/bipod/NV to rotate with the nut, not even once. The challenge was to time the tube and lock it into the original bipod pin hole as the two upper holes had to remain clear to support a quick take down and resulting stock rods support. The final version required a new barrel nut with two levels of threading and grooving. Bill's original bipod pin hole was threaded and then it was a simple matter of normal barrel to receiver assembly without the tube/bipod. Then a quick tube/bipod/NY slide over the attached barrel assembly, quick spin of a captured secondary heading rearward, and a lock down into the now threaded bipod pin hole with a rearward facing handle headed bolt through a more permanent extension to the tube bottom (not rail mounted as I showed on yours).

I thought that was pure genious until it was realized that if the receiver was ordered with Bill's double thumb screw holes for his optics extention, all that was needed was a bridge back from the tube to those holes. Slide it on to a smoothed, not externally threaded barrel nut and secure the two thumb screws for timing. Done. Oh well...

One other point, in order to really cool the barrel, side porting did not work. Whereas it is true that no allowances could be made at the top due to mirage, the side holes must be at the 10 and 2 oclock position and, if there is a bottom rail, perfs are made close to either side of that bottom rail. Then the air will flow. If a full lower rail is not needed, 6 oclock holes are best and really only 4-5" at the rear.

 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

I've been watching various threads on tube/bipod setups for the windrunner for a while as I decide what system to go with for mine. This system has some nice things going for it.

I love that the tube is flared at the barrel nut, instead of having to be 2.5" in diameter the whole way down. I'm not entirely sold on the threaded nut/tube yet, though. My concern is that the tube will begin to deform and loosen up over time- that's a lot of weight being supported at a mechanical disadvantage- and a big bang every now and then to encourage wiggle. Also, when I was measuring my barrel nut I had concerns that cutting any threads into it may compromise its strength. I see the threads here are pretty shallow though- that's probably not an issue.

I also admire the fitment of the rails, particularly where the tube flares.

I'm looking forward to a several-hundred-round report! Thanks for the pictures and ideas.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

I always wondered why there was no carry handle on mine. I had a thought a while back when I saw the handle on my HK91. If a handle was made that took advantage of some of the picitanny rail and a pivoting handle that would fold down over the contour of the rifle that would be nice as well as removable. Maybe even a detachable ala Larue sidlever.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

Rocco!
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Rocco the tube is rock solid. There is a sleeve that is installed with threads over the nut so it is probably stronger than the factory one.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

Jimmy,

I do have a tendency to over-build things in the interest of strength (can you say 'Martini Bar' Dogtown?), so it wouldn't surprise me if I'm being overly-skeptical. Well, that and I'm no materials engineer.

This is by far the cleanest setup I've ever seen and I hope that the quality shown here is something I can achieve in my own work.. But I don't think I'll be able to shake that skepticism until I get my hands on one or get a bit further into my own tube project to where I can start putting stresses on things.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-2

I just wanted to say that i love that gun. Its almost exactly what i was recently thinking about having built (mag fed, bolt action, 416 barrett). i just didn't know if it could be done.

Now I do, Thanks a lot for sharing
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really enjoyed the thread and pics, thanks for sharing. Always great to see a thoughtful design come to life.

Nothing worse than watching your expensive UNS rotate right around under .50 fire, or the stress of the bipod constantly working against your secondary ring. Now you've got perfect timing and perfect lock-up off Bill's original bipod pin hole. Pull the pin and rotate away! Nice knurl on the secondary ring for you too, but your not going to even need it now..Merry Xmas.

If you can get your wrap under, move the UNS forward until the UNS dust cap rest 1/4" on top of the scope.

timed-knurl2.jpg


Who designed and/or fabricated your locking device in the pic? I ordered a tube/bi-pod assembly from RND and was curious if I need to come up with something similiar for my EDM .408. What is it actually? It looks like a modified scope ring with some sort of sleeved plunger assembly.



</div></div>
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

That is one of the most gorgeous rifles I have ever seen! If you don't mind, how much does the tube/bipod setup from RND cost? Also, next time you take pics I would be interested in some with the bipod folded if you can.
 
Re: After almost a year... (EDM / RND / NF / PVS-22)

RND is building me one now - it is a around a grand for the tube and bi-pod. He'll need your bbl nut to turn down. The rails are extra, $150ish each.