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Aftermarket Stocks

2brothers641

2brothers641

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 21, 2008
544
5
43
IA, USA
Haven't purchased one yet but have done a ton of reading here and everywhere else. There are a few concerns i have about different brands and everyones opinion about them. I read people saying don't buy B&C, Choate, Houge, ect. I can't figure out for the life of me what the accuracy difference is going to be on any stock that is made of strong material with the full length aluminum bedding block. I mean really, all these stocks including the prized mcmillan have to be bedded for the best results right? Now i fully understand the ascetics and accessories play a major role in the purchase of a new stock. Some of the cheaper ones don't offer the same options as the high end ones. I also understand that the finish on the lower end stocks is not as quality, but wtf. Seems like everyone custom paints the anyway so who cares right? Sorry for the rant guys but someone tell me what can be gained accuracy wise by a high end stock properly bedded to a lower end stock properly bedded. Guess i am just sick of all the stock snobs saying the more expensive the better, cause i don't see it.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I agree with you which is why I currently run a B&C with no problems or complaints at all. I figured the $400 I saved from buying this stock over an AICS spent on ammo would make me a far better shooter than an $850 stock without the extra practice.

Practice vs gear is always a balancing act, and rarely is it wiser to spend money on a marginally better piece of gear when that money could go to practice.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2brothers641</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Haven't purchased one yet but have done a ton of reading here and everywhere else. There are a few concerns i have about different brands and everyones opinion about them. I read people saying don't buy B&C, Choate, Houge, ect. I can't figure out for the life of me what the accuracy difference is going to be on any stock that is made of strong material with the full length aluminum bedding block. I mean really, all these stocks including the prized mcmillan have to be bedded for the best results right? Now i fully understand the ascetics and accessories play a major role in the purchase of a new stock. Some of the cheaper ones don't offer the same options as the high end ones. I also understand that the finish on the lower end stocks is not as quality, but wtf. Seems like everyone custom paints the anyway so who cares right? Sorry for the rant guys but someone tell me what can be gained accuracy wise by a high end stock properly bedded to a lower end stock properly bedded. Guess i am just sick of all the stock snobs saying the more expensive the better, cause i don't see it. </div></div>

Hard to know where to begin. Experience is the best teacher, and learning mistakes cost you money.

But let's answer your question first: Take a good used H-S Precision stock. You can get one here for around $225. It has an aluminum bedding block.

Now you have it skim bedded, by a pro. Toss another $100. on the fire.

Your accuracy is excellent, so your done right? No... you now find that you really want a DBM system. Call Triad and get a nice new Badger M-5. Toss another $335. not counting additional magazines. But wait, if you want to run an M-5, you need to have the stock inletted, so there goes another $75. greenbacks to the pro.

After shooting your fine skim-bedded used H-S stock w/ Badger bottom metal, you realize that the comb is a bit too low for a comfortable cheek weld. No problemo, just buy a Karsten Cheek piece and add another $65. to the pot.

No need to go to a pro for that installation, you can drill it yourself. Out comes the drill and as you push in you realize your H-S stock is filled with.......air. There ain't nothing in it, but air in the butt section.

This is the difference between a cheaper stock and a premium stock. The good one is filled with something other than air.

Let's recap:

$225 One used stock
$100. Skim Bedding
$335. Badger M-5 BM
$75. Bedding
$65. Karsten cheekpiece.
and a stock filled with air......

Total $800 spent:

Or you could have just bought an AICS 1.5 for $815. It comes with a DBM system, adjustable cheek-piece, no bedding required and is filled with stuff other than air.....

You money your choice,

Bob
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I understand about all the options to be added to make a stock more shooter friendly. But lets just say you don't want any extras, just an accurate rifle. For example, take a sps varmint .308 and professionally bed it to a stock. Will there be any accuracy difference between Mcmillan, B&C, Choate, Manners, ect. Again, i know the higher end stocks have better everything, but do they have anything to gain accuracy wise?
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I currently run McMillan A4 Adjustables... and a HS Precision PT025... I have also ran a Bell and Carlson FULLY Adjustable Tactical...

I could NOT really tell the difference in accuracy.. ALL made GREAT hits to 1K. There are BIG DIFFERENCES in the feel of each stock though and THAT is what your paying for.

In my opinion.... the Bell and Carlson stocks are VERY well made and VERY strong...

I have used AICS Stocks... and for me... I DONT like them... I dont like the feel of them at all and the are bulky...

But to each their own...

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I think I may have heard my self say this before:

<span style="font-size: 20pt">BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE!!</span>
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I got my last 2 McMillians used. I really like the A3. My Buddy runs a B/C in a Savage I bedded and a 5R with a Manners T2. Depending on the day that Savage will out run his 5R. That said I have HS B/C Banser McMillian. B/C seem to be outta wack from time to time. Not ALWAYS drop in. IMHO I dont care who's name is on it they all need some bedding. McMillians are alot more drop in. Inletting on the HS stock I have fit seem better than B/C. B/C is stiff and priced right, they just take a little more work than a Mcmillian. Same time you can not get a B/C Cut for a #5 Lilja with a 1.75 inch Shank, for a Stiller predator. Bolt handle on the Remmy is sweeped back Stiller is not. Stillers run a bigger lug and plan on opening/Filling the barrel channel.

So like was said above you get what you pay for. B/C makes a nice servicable stick. They are priced right if you run a standard weapon and can do your own bedding. I like their Tis and there sports. I hate the feel of the tac models.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Personally I hate faff. Buying a cheaper stock and then having to bed it / clear the barrel channel / brace the forend / pillar bed etc etc because there are accuracy concerns is a big pain in the behind. I like the confidence having a top end stock affords, not to mention the features.
I personally have a couple of AICS stocks and while the fit of them for me is not great I will put up with that for the bomb proof construction and the 100% drop in fit to the action. No faffing about...
I guess what it boils down to is trying to eliminate the variables in the quest for accuracy in a precision rifle.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2brothers641</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand about all the options to be added to make a stock more shooter friendly. But lets just say you don't want any extras, just an accurate rifle. For example, take a sps varmint .308 and professionally bed it to a stock. Will there be any accuracy difference between Mcmillan, B&C, Choate, Manners, ect. Again, i know the higher end stocks have better everything, but do they have anything to gain accuracy wise? </div></div>

I think you misunderstand what accuracy is. Accuracy in a rifle is determined by how well the whole system: a rifle with cartridge, chamber, barrel, stock, trigger, rail, rings, scope, bipod, rear bag, and the shooter behind it driving it all.

It's a system, not just jumble of odd and cheap components. Bedding a stock on a factory Remington SPS my improve it's mechanical accuracy, but if the stock does not fit the shooter, you wasted your money. Remember you fit the stock to the shooter, not the other way around.

Let's take your example: A Rem 700 SPS in 308. You can buy one for around $550. delivered. By the time you outfit that basic rifle with an average setup of Bases, Rings, Scope, Bipod, rear bag, carrying case, and ammo; you've spent another 2x to 3x over that initial $550.

And now you want to gamble that a meer $100. worth of bedding, to your $50. stock (that's about what Remington pays Hogue for one of their stocks) will give you the accuracy you desire, and protect your total investment.

You got the tail chasing the dog, sir. This is 2010. A good barrel blank made by one of the better makers like Brux, Hart, Kreiger or Rock costs around $300. Another $275 to just have it fitted and chambered. A decent scope starts in the $700. range and goes up from there. Good quality rings and bases will leave you no change from $250. A decent adjustable trigger will cost starting around $125. What does a case of Federal GMM's cost?

See what I'm getting at? Your thinking that accuracy starts and ends with a $100 bedding job on your $50 stock. You have no clue of the world you are about to enter.

So before you tag the collective membership here as "Stock Snobs" do a bit more research.

Regards,

Bob
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Well, I haven't felt a Chaote or a BC or a Hogue for that matter. But I can tell you a McMillan, for some "magical" reason, just feels like "Home" to me. I liken it to the feel of a Randall Made Knife compared to other "Better" made knives or a 1st Generation Colt Single Action Army pistol compared to a "Newer" Ruger or some other copy.
As far as AI stocks, I don't like them. The way the grip is positioned makes my Booger-hook go thru the trigger guard all the way to the second knuckle. It's actually painful to pull it out far enough so the tip is on the Bang-Button.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

When my boys offered to buy me a Manners T4 for my Tikka 300WM for Fathers Day/Birthday I wasn't going to turn them down.

I had done a lot of work to the OEM stock to make it shoot. It was pillar bedded, all the voids in the action area were filled with Devcon and then it was skim bedded, including the bottom plastic. As far as I can tell, from a strictly mechanical standpoint, it shoots as accurately as my Manners (which is also pillar/skim bedded).

But there is no comparison is shooting the two. The rifle may not know the difference, but I do. I know that *I* shoot better and more consistently with the Manners because of how it fits me. I would never go back.

John
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Bob, I am afraid you don't understand the point of this thread. The example given stated the exact same barreled action and trigger used in different stocks. Will the accuracy change? No shit having a better trigger and custom barrel makes a huge difference, thats not the point. I very much understand accuracy and how different components make or break it. Fortunately this thread is intended for stocks. I like the buy once cry once saying. I guess value for my money means more to me.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Own a Mcmillan A-5 and have not looked back!! Everything about the stock is superior to others that I have owned, B&C, Choate, Manners, ect.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

It was said a few times in here, but many more in all the other stock questions. You need to try them and find the one that is comfortable for you and that will be the best in accuracy. If you can find one that puts your hand just so, head right down the tube, body right behind the rifle, and trigger finger just right there, you have the makings of a shooter.
First time I really felt that was with the A-4. I just about love everything about the fit of that one.
When you get that, accuracy will increase as you are in perfect order and consistent.
My.02
Chad
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

I was recently going through the same thing. I was dead set on the B&C A5 adjustable. Then I realized I was going to want to add a DBM later. And have to have it bedded to get any decent results. After I tallied it all up it was just as much a an AICS. So I bit the bullet and bought the AICS 1.5. Have never looked back. It's an awesome stock. The only complaint I have about it is that the plastic sides are crudely cut for a 850 dollar stock. Does this affect accuracy? No. It is by far the most comfortable stock I've ever held. I like it much more than the McM A5, but that's just my personal preference. The thumbhole really helps to lock in my shooting position.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

A stock can help accuracy but it is more then just the stock. Yes a good bedding job and free floating a barrel makes a difference but there is so much more to it then that. Remember a rifle is only as good as they shooter. Thus if you stock doesn't fit you then you are not going to get the best accuracy possible. As was stated earlier the stock should fit the shooter not the other way around. Thus one should find the stock they are most comfortable behind and use that. Personally I like Manners. They are the best fit for me. However this is not the case for everyone.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Yeah I think about everyone missed the point of this thread. I will try to explain this one more time. Take a barreled action with trigger, properly bed it to a McMillan stock, place in a mechanical vise, and shoot some groups. Next, remove the barreled action and bed into an AICS stock, shoot some groups. Now continue this process the a vast majority, houge, manners, b&c, ect. Is there a difference in the accuracy? This should resolve all shooter issues, better triggers,custom barrels ect. This thread was solely for the purpose of stocks, and stocks only, to define accuracy.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2brothers641</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah I think about everyone missed the point of this thread. I will try to explain this one more time. Take a barreled action with trigger, properly bed it to a McMillan stock, place in a mechanical vise, and shoot some groups. Next, remove the barreled action and bed into an AICS stock, shoot some groups. Now continue this process the a vast majority, houge, manners, b&c, ect. Is there a difference in the accuracy? This should resolve all shooter issues, better triggers,custom barrels ect. This thread was solely for the purpose of stocks, and stocks only, to define accuracy. </div></div>

Take the same barreled action and drop it in a stock that fits the shooter and accuracy will improve. However the point is that the stock is the interface between the shooter and the rifle. Thus a correct fit is key. Thus the stock fitting the shooter is MUCH more important then the brand of stock.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Would it be wrong to think of a stock like a shoe ?

You just wear it for comfort and the extra abiltiy to perform "x" and what not comes from this comfort.

Like wearing a shoe 2 sizes small it hurts and is uncomfortable hindering your ability to walk / run now you get a shoe for YOUR foot that you have personally tried and its comfortable, you find you can run harder and faster now.

Your more comfortable and are able to perform better in the shoe that fits YOU, taking that the accuracy from different stocks is promoted by the shooters choice and his comfort level.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2brothers641</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the replies. I think i am going the AICS route. </div></div>
Have you spent any amount of time on an AICS stock? Even though they are deemed the end all be all of stocks, they just flat don't fit everybody. As stated above the Mccrees is also a top performer, I like it a lot. I replaced an AICS with one and am still smiling. The next guy will have just the opposite opinion.
As long as the stock is rigid, the inletting precise, the recoil lug surfaces parallel, I see no reason for one to be more mechanically accurate then another.
 
Re: Aftermarket Stocks

Unlike an action or barrel or optic, a stock has to fit the shooter. It is the primary user interface between the human factor driving the rifle and the mechanical system that is the rifle.

A cheaper stock can be more effective in the hands of a shooter that it fits than a high dollar stock in the hands of a shooter that it doesn't fit.

But, at the same time, high end, well constructed stocks have a far head-start on the cheap flimsy, "air filled" stocks.

I suggest you find you budget. Then see what stocks fall into that budget. Start at the top end and work down until you find one that is comfortable.

I LOVE the HS Precision M24 stock. I just started shooting a rifle with an AICS and am not sold on it yet.

2brothers641, PM me. I don't know where you are in IA, but I come back often and always bring a few pea shooters with me. You are more than welcome to try them out. PM me if you are interested.
 
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