Brought my AI Ax 308 out to the range today. The gun is pretty new to me. This was my second time shooting it. Sighted the scope in last time out. First 10 shots were dead center bull’s-eye in less than a 1 inch group. I’m quite happy with that. I switched magazines and moved to a target a foot across from It. This time the group was a tad lower, however, not terrible. I moved to another target and now the group is about 3 inches lower. I’m starting to get frustrated. Move to the next target and now it’s now 4 inches lower and spreading out. Picatinnay rail is nice and tight and so are the scope rings. The next few groups start to get worse. This is a vortex razor HD 4.5-27 . I’m not doing rapidfire and I am taking at least five seconds between each shot. Needless to say what was supposed to be a relaxing day was frustrating . My plan is to try to Re:ZERO the scope next time out and see what happens. This couldn’t be the barrel starting to string shots, right? I checked the barrel and it was nice and tight and the pinch bottom was tight too. Any thoughts ? I pulled the bolt when I got home and it had some tiny brass flakes on the face of it, however, that appears normal. Everything else appears normal and I didn’t see any pierced primers anywhere .
- Thread starter pnorris
- Start date
I had issues with my barrel loosening up. Now I tighten the barrel with a wrench and the small screw to 68 pounds.
If everything is tight I would try a different scope. Also make sure you are using consistent rear bag and cheek pressure
If everything is tight I would try a different scope. Also make sure you are using consistent rear bag and cheek pressure
I’ve never heard of the barrel loosening up before! Is that common?!!!
See if the set screws on the turret is loose?
Some of them have bedding glue on the barrel clamp lugs and they don’t squeeze correctly.
The set screws for the scope Zero were tight. I may put a wrench on the flat of the barrel and give it a light to torque before the next range trip. The barrel didn’t seem loose though. It can’t be the gun, as it produced that awesome group at the start. I shot the same ammo through it the entire time . M118. I’m not the most amazing marksman however, I’m way more consistent in the groups that were showing up. Frustrating, as I finally got a day out.
Make sure you don't miss checking the torque on the barrel set screw, that's what you want to set to the specific torque value.
Also as crazy as it sounds, don't discount a problem with the scope internals or the way you have mounted the scope. If the groups are staying similar size but the point of impact is changing relative to the point of aim, it is worth giving a very careful check to the optical system.
I am assuming the area around the muzzle is completely open and no bags or boxes, posts or pillars etc are near the muzzle end?
@pnorris can you tell us how you were shooting groups? Bi-pods, on bench or on floor prone? is the AI a new rifle or used? In my cases, when I encounter inconsistency in groups, one time the muzzle brake was loose and moving around !
I like the muzzle brake solution! The others sound kind of catastrophic.....
What brand of barrel?
Are you shooting suppressed?
Are you shooting suppressed?
Nothing is catastrophic here.. if it's a razor, vortex will replace that shit with a free hat in less time than it took the French to surrender in WW2 usually less than 6 days.
If it's the barrel torque... That's easy you add torque to 55-65 inlbs... Done... I'm one of those that needs more than 49 in lbs on my axmc...
How often does this happen? I’ve never seen this in the Hide before. Is it common for AIs? Or is it a fluke? Did the Smith screw up?
Dang man! Yeah I can imagine that it's frustrating when you have a high dollar piece of equipment that isn't performing like it should. I agree with a lot of the other guys: try a different scope if you have one. Muzzle brake being loose would be a nice and easy problem to fix as well...
The barrel torque?
Affirm. I have a lot of cheap rifles and that’s never happened.
Thanks for the ideas. I don’t think it’s the rifle. I will check the brake though. The way it started to degrade I wonder if I have a scope Issue. I was not shooting suppressed. The brake was rocksetted on though in order to prevent movement.
I can't speak for that rifle, but my AT is rock solid. IF it's the rifle, it's a freak mistake. AI makes dependable products.
Do you have another optic to swap it? That'd be the quickest way to rule out an optic issue.
I don’t think you understand how the AI’s work. The barrels are user removable/changeable, if it is not done right they may loosen as people are saying, though the system is pretty simple.
Most other guns and pretty much all ‘cheap rifles’ use a lot more torque to secure the barrels, the barrels stay there and should not loosen.
This one time I tried this expensive Larue scope mount with vertically split rings........
I found out what it feels like to not hit anything you aim at.....
So don't discount checking and double checking the mounting for the scope as well as the scope itself.
I found out what it feels like to not hit anything you aim at.....
So don't discount checking and double checking the mounting for the scope as well as the scope itself.
Anything that requires set/grub screw will be more prone to loosening then a barrel being straight up shouldered ~80-100+ ft-lbs.
Shouldn't be an issue if the user follows manufacturer's recommendations. That said, it's another potential failure point that I personally don't like introducing into my rifle systems.
Sounds like it's probably not the OP's problem, based on what he's saying.
This is where I would look first.
If the mounts all look solid, then if you have another scope, it may be worthwhile to try another scope.
Could you post a picture of your setup? Maybe we can see something that you didn’t catch.
Is this a carbon barrel?
No, standard AI AX 308 barrel. Everything on the rifle appears perfect . I checked everything. I am thinking I have an optic issue. It was good and then it slowly went worse and worse. It sucks to start out a range day putting your first 10 shots in a tiny little Area, and then the end range day looking like somebody shot the target with buckshot . I will update the thread the next time i get to shoot the rifle. Thanks for all the suggestions .
You MUST torque your scope ring to a set torque spec that vortex recommends As well, if you over torque them if will mess with your optic
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Were all your groups 10rds? 40-50rds with 5 sec between each shot gets stuff warm and thats some recoil to deal with. When you switched to different targets, did you reset your npa or just "make it work"? Check ring and rail screws, along with barrel torque. When I had my at, I always tightened barrel to receiver at 50ft/lbs and then just took cross bolt to 49"/lbs.
Sometimes i get squirrly behind the rifle and don't realize it. I used to chalk it up as just not my day. The Hide has taught me to slow down focus on fundamentals. As stated above... of course after checking your gear....
Check consistency on cheek/head pressure and alignment.
Grip and trigger finger.
Relaxed body, square.
Have someone cycle the bolt for you and have them go empty chamber without you knowing.... flinching?
Parallax adjusted properly?
Hope this helps.
Check consistency on cheek/head pressure and alignment.
Grip and trigger finger.
Relaxed body, square.
Have someone cycle the bolt for you and have them go empty chamber without you knowing.... flinching?
Parallax adjusted properly?
Hope this helps.
Sometimes we give ourselves as shooters too much credit, while not giving our equipment enough credit.
It's always good to look at the shooter first, as it's usually the weakest part of the system.
I believe that the optic had an issue. I will confirm. I don’t see how the rifle could all of a sudden start shooting 4 inches low. I was shooting from a bipod and a rear bag. For me to start shooting 4 inches low I’d have to be making pretty crazy movements. That was not the case. Either way, I hope I can get out there soon to figure this out.
Did you say what the scope mount is? My Razor in a Spuhr needs 25 in-lb even though the literature says 15-25 in/lb. Too low and it won’t group.
I wouldn’t start over-torquing the QuickLoc barrel screw until you eliminate the scope, mount, and muzzle brake as possible causes. I don’t think it’s super common to have a real issue with that system, and going up to something like 65 in-lb could end up just stretching the bolt and you chasing your tail even more with a screw that has yielded.
There’s no harm in a paint pen witness mark on the barrel+receiver to confirm it’s not unscrewing.
I wouldn’t start over-torquing the QuickLoc barrel screw until you eliminate the scope, mount, and muzzle brake as possible causes. I don’t think it’s super common to have a real issue with that system, and going up to something like 65 in-lb could end up just stretching the bolt and you chasing your tail even more with a screw that has yielded.
There’s no harm in a paint pen witness mark on the barrel+receiver to confirm it’s not unscrewing.
There is a fairly long thread here with many AI owners having issue with the quick barrel feature when using the specified torque. I will eventually pick one up if I come across a good deal and will probably bypass that feature.
MPA Mount. Exactly, check one thing at a time. I think the barrel is fine . I checked that and the brake. The way that it happened makes me think that something let go on the scope as it got progressively worse. Hopefully I can update sooner than later.
I’m aware, I’m the one that suggested the cause behind it based on my research on the Obsession chassis. I’m just saying that although there are people in that thread saying they have the issue needing more torque, I don’t think it’s a high percentage of rifles.
There will be a bunch of people de-bonding their rifles for the chassis upgrade, hopefully that will yield some more data on how many factory rifles have excess epoxy on the QuickLoc lugs.
Why do you think it needs 25 in-lbs? Seems odd to me it wouldn’t work below that. I’m looking and getting for a Razor the my new AI (that you encouraged me to buy - my bank account thanks thou), and hadn’t heard about that issue with Razors.
Also following this thread to see if there’s any Quic lock issues since I haven’t gotten to shoot mine yet.
I’d usually agree with y’all. But damn, guys.. Four INCHES?!
I can shoot smaller spread than that with my eyes closed. Seriously.
Particularly with the slow trend downward, this guy’s got a problem, and I doubt it is only him.
Around my rifles, paint pens are like Redhot. I put that shit on everything.
That's why I think it's a scope problem, as per one of my first posts in this thread.
I took that poi dropped 3 or 4", not group size was 4"
That’s why I said spread, not group size.
I say shift, spread sounds like group size description
Don’t overthink the Razor or QuickLoc screw.
I’ve been shooting the same Razor for 4 years with no issues. I switched from a 1.5” Spuhr to a 1.18”, and had a wandering zero at only 15 in-lb on the cap screws. Torqued them to 25 in-lb at the range and no problems going forward.
Test another optic on there. I am going to put money it is not the rifle and is purely the optic not tracking.
Vortex optics are known to go down, AI rifles are not
i wish that was true for me my razor never has failed me yet my ax has....
Need help! AI bolt just failed/fell apart today at the range
I was shooting today and all of the sudden I couldn’t close the bolt. Pulled the bolt out and the bolts dropped out the bottom and top fell off. Any ideas thanks
www.snipershide.com There could be many questions I could ask that led to that.... but things do break. I have seen far more other products go down versus Ai’s! I’m pretty sure that is standard across the board. If we took a poll on equipment failures I could imagine which fails the least. My educated guess would be AI/NFi wish that was true for me my razor never has failed me yet my ax has....
Need help! AI bolt just failed/fell apart today at the range
I was shooting today and all of the sudden I couldn’t close the bolt. Pulled the bolt out and the bolts dropped out the bottom and top fell off. Any ideas thanks
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