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Rifle Scopes aimpoint pro vs lucid hd7 gen3

bloodsport06

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 10, 2012
163
1
36
nebraska
hey guys, ive had my eyes on the lucid hd7 now for awhile. also on the aimpoint pro. finally ready to buy one but cant make up my darn mind. the lucid has great reviews and some darn good options. lucid comes with a lifetime warranty. 1000hrs of battery life on tripple A.
i can get the aimpoint for $367 and the lucid for $170.
does anyone have experience with both? ive had primary arms micro dots and a bushnell trs-25. both were good, thought the primary arms was better tho. just wanting one thats gonna last me for a long long time without worries, not saying either of the other two wouldnt. just peace of mind.
thanks
 
Had a chance to look through the hd7 yesterday. Didn't like it. I saw a lot of internal reflections (of circuitry, diodes, whatever) on the right side of the field of view. Also, there's no changing the mount on the hd7 as it houses the battery and controls so what you got is what you got in regards to mounting height and off-set.
I have a PRO and a couple of Comp C3's. Only gripe on the PRO is that the included flip-up covers get in the way but they do come right off. The (also) included mount may or may not work for you but there's loads of aftermarket options.
 
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american defense makes a quick detach mount for the hd7. i think it runs about 150 dollars. i know you can see the emitter. i have not looked through one tho. on the primary arms i could see the emitter also. when i used the optic i didnt notice it tho because i wasnt focusing on it. how long do most aimpoints last? does anyone know. im pretty sure the aimpoint is the better optic. just trying to justify the price. as of right now this will be going on my m&p 1522. i just bought a lower to start a build so eventually it will make its way on top of a bcm upper. lately ive been using the quote, buy once, cry once. prry should just suck it up and buy the aimpoint lol
 
haha. im just checking to see what people think! ive read alott of good reviews on the lucid. i think ill just go with an aimpoint to support american made products. plus some of my friends will be jealous
 
You've read alot of good reviews from alot of people who bought one because they couldn't afford and Aimpoint. Most people won't get on the Internet and tell everyone they paid good money for a piece of shit.
 
If you're wanting a red dot under $200, go with Vortex Sparc or Strikefire. Only get the Strikefire with the red only dot, they had a few lesser reviews on the red/green version. Vortex has the warranty and you don't lose more than 20% in resale provided you take care of it.

Otherwise, aimpoint is always worth the money if you can swing it. They have a decent warranty plan also and the 2 moa dot is a definite bonus over the strikefires 4 moa dot.
 
I had a Lucid HD7, gen 1 or maybe 2. It was large, very heavy for a red dot, and had a restricted field of view with a lot of hardware blocking your FOV just outside the viewing area through the tube. Much worse than using an Aimpoint. I like the 30mm Aimpoints pretty well, and the PRO is the lowest price of the group. Downside to the PRO - the mount isn't great and many of them come loose in use. You may want to use an ADM (etc.) mount instead of the QRP2.

The only sub-Aimpoint red dot I like is the Ultradot, which is also just about the only one RDS made in Japan. They are NOT an Aimpoint, but for about half the price they are good on a competition or training gun. For any sort of defensive, duty, or hunt-of-a-lifetime type use, get an Aimpoint (or a Trijicon).
 
Just buy the Aimpoint and be done with it. That way, you won't regret it when you realize you bought an inferior piece of chi-com crap that has little to no resell value. If you do go with the Lucid, you'll find yourself going out of your way to justify the purchase to yourself and others knowing deep down, you made a mistake.
 
Here's one I wrote in regards to the Aimpoints attributes, nuff said :D:


When it comes to red dots like a lot of things, You get what you pay for.

I've owned Eotechs and Aimpoints

There's pros and cons but not too many cons for the Aimpoints. The only reason I went with the Eotech PREVIOUSLY was the field of view through the window.

Aimpoints now have a battery life of over 50,000 hours of continuous runtime.

The Aimpoint PRO was made as a more affordable and Patrol Specific model.

If the M2's, M3's, and M4's are too big thay make the T-1s, and H-1's which are more compact. The difference between the T-1 and H-1 is that the T-1 is better waterproofed. if you're going on a combat diver mission get a T-1! LoL

The problems that frequently occur with the Eotechs are:

- The battery contact in the longer models tends to fail
- The Nitrogen filled compartment tends to loose its pressure and the Eotech has to be sent in for repair. The result is a dim to no reticle.

I just sold my EOTECH 557.4XFTS and when the buyer got it he said he couldn't see the reticle! So taking his word for it I refunded him his money after I received it and checked it out for myself. And sure as hell the reticle could barely be seen! So now I sent it to Eotech for refurbishment. Now I gotta sell it again! LoL

Another aspect to a red dot is the mount! QD mounts. When dismounting the red dot a QD mount will maintain the zero, PENDING MANUFACTURER. A twist tension type mount will most likely have to be re-zeroed every time unless you use a torque setting or mark it.

I only use Larue QD mounts as their customer service is awesome as well as their products.

Then there's Co-witeness... To save some typing I'll just post a link for ya

Any other questions about em dont hesitate to ask. Measure twice, shoot once


Here's some info I cut and pasted. Written by Jon Consiglio:

Red Dots - Proper Basic Use and the Reason for Co-Witnessing

Whether it's on the forums or in a training environment, there are a couple things I hear or see that need addressed so those running red dots, or considering purchasing them, can fully understand proper use and get the most out of their set up.

One of these things is people co-witnessing with their irons when firing their weapon. I've heard it mentioned before, but I never realized how common this was until I started paying attention to it. In my opinion, if you take the time to co-witness your irons with your optic every time, you have little more than a painted front sight that cost you hundreds of dollars.

The second thing is seen more than heard on the forums and it is one of the biggest issues I see with the speed of first round hits. What I've noticed many shooters doing is bringing the rifle into a firing position from a ready position, then taking the time to center the dot in the optic, most not even realizing they're doing so. This is counter productive and can slow you down considerably. To get to the bottom of the issue, we need to understand how a red dot works and what it is truly designed to do.

First, let's take a look at zeroing. Very simply, for me, I will co-witness the dot with the iron sights that are already zeroed. Keep in mind that a front sight post is typically 8 MOA and your Aimpoint will be 2 to 4 MOA and your EoTech will be 1 MOA.

See Image 2 below for a lower 1/3rd co-witness.

Once I've done this, I'll set my target at my desired zero range and fire five rounds. Usually I'll be very close and only need very minor corrections, if any.

I'll mention absolute co-witness and 1/3 co-witness quickly. All that an absolute co-witness means is that your irons will line up somewhere near the center of your optic, nothing more. Lower 1/3rd means they'll line up somewhere *in the lower 1/3rd.

This is not exact, but close. This also does not mean that you need to view your red dot in the center or lower 1/3rd at all times, it's just where the irons and red dot co-witness. Contrary to what some believe, co-witnessing with your irons will not be more accurate that using the red dot alone.

This leads me to my next point, which is that centering the dot will do almost nothing for accuracy and will quite likely slow you down. I've seen so many shooters, often LEO's that are somewhat new to red dots, that are showing only minimal improvement on first shot times from a ready position. When we try to figure out the reason, it usually comes down to them centering the dot in the optic.

From a low ready, for example, we should be bringing the rifle to a firing position and firing as soon as we catch a glimpse of the red dot covering the area we intend to shoot. This could mean that the red dot is in the top left corner of the optic, top and center, or to the right and center as I show in images 3, 4 and 5. Only when the shooter can grasp this idea will they show considerable improvements in first shot times.

This isn't so much about the benefits of a red dot as it is proper use, but just to mention a few - a red dot will allow you to focus on the target and not the front sight post or dot. It will be much easier to follow when firing multiple rounds and will also be much more visible in low light. I know very few shooters that cannot shoot faster with a red dot than they can with irons. In most cases, they're more accurate as well.

If I'm firing at 200 meters from the bench, of course I'll center the dot in the optic as I'm trying to be as consistent as possible with my cheek to stock weld and everything else for that matter. But, in most other situations, I'm just looking for a quick flash of the dot covering my intended target in the general area I want to shoot it.

Image 1 - The setup. Aimpoint M4s and KAC folding iron sights. 2" square about 10 feet away.



Image 2 - Lower 1/3rd co-witness. The only time I should see his is when I'm zeroing my rifle or doing a quick check to assure my irons and optic are still zeroed (or close). The reason the dot is slightly above the front sight post is I use a 6 o'clock hold with irons and I hold over the target with the dot.



Images 3, 4 and 5 - This is how we should view our dot most of the time. The rifle may have moved slightly between pics, but as you can see, the dot is still in the same general place on target regardless of where in the optic it is positioned. The irons and barrel are still in the same place, as is the optic. The only thing that has changed is our view or the red dot. The bullet will still impact the same place in all three pics below.







Image 6 - should our red dot fail or should we enter a brightly lit environment from a dark environment and not have time to adjust our optic, this is how we'll view our irons through the tube. There are other options like using the tube as the rear aperture or viewing the front sight post over the rear aperture, but we'll save that for another time.



Here's the proper sight picture with a lower 1/3rd set up with a T1 (rifle is a KAC sr15). Smaller window but same idea.



Well, that's about it. This was basically remedial red dot. I just wanted to have something like this posted with pics as I find myself explaining it nearly on a weekly basis. So now, I can just post a link. I didn't want to get into parallax just yet. Even though the Aimpoint is considered parallax-free, there is a small amount at close range.

Oh, keep in mind that when you are using a 3x magnifier with a 4 MOA red dot, the dot is still 4 MOA when viewed at 3x, the dot does become 3 times larger, but so does everything else, which means it still only covers roughly 4" at 100 yards.

I hope this at least gave someone a slightly better understanding of the benefits of a red dot. Done right, it should allow you faster first round hits as well as faster follow up shots, not to mention the benefits when in awkward shooting positions and when the heart is pumping at 180 because it's dark and scary and things are about to get wild.



EDIT - 16 September 2012

I had a Lightfighter/m4c member come in from Ohio to do some shooting this week. It was a perfect example of what I explained in my opening post.

We set up our targets at 7 to 10 yards with an 8" center of mass and an index card on the face. Starting at a relaxed/patrol ready and firing 3 rounds center mass and 2 to the head (index card), he was average 1.2 for the first round and 2.2 for the full drill. After noticing the delay from bringing the rifle to the shoulder and firing the first round, I figured he was searching for the dot or subconsciously trying to center it.

He had already reviewed the red dot post of mine on another forum and we talked about that. I showed him the two videos I took of him firing. He already knows this from numerous advanced classes, but I reminded him to focus on the target, bring the rifle to the shoulder and the dot through his line of sight to the target while continuing to focus on the target. I asked him to fire when there was a flash of the dot on the target.

He did this again, each time firing his first shot between .9 and .99 and the complete drill between 1.85 and just under 2 seconds. This might not sound like a huge difference, but we're talking a 25% improvement in one or two hour's time. We spent Wednesday afternoon and evening on the range as well as Thursday morning and afternoon.

My times were roughly .8 on average for the first round and averaged around 1.7 for the 5 rounds. Anything under 1 second for the first shot from a relaxed position and 2 seconds for the complete drill is good.

If we were starting from a "low ready", which has essentially become nothing more than a shouldered rifle with a view slightly over your optic, then good times should be closer to .8 or less for the first round and under 1.75 for the 5 rounds.
 
Here's one I wrote in regards to the Aimpoints attributes, nuff said :D:


When it comes to red dots like a lot of things, You get what you pay for.

I've owned Eotechs and Aimpoints

There's pros and cons but not too many cons for the Aimpoints. The only reason I went with the Eotech PREVIOUSLY was the field of view through the window.

Aimpoints now have a battery life of over 50,000 hours of continuous runtime.

The Aimpoint PRO was made as a more affordable and Patrol Specific model.

If the M2's, M3's, and M4's are too big thay make the T-1s, and H-1's which are more compact. The difference between the T-1 and H-1 is that the T-1 is better waterproofed. if you're going on a combat diver mission get a T-1! LoL

The problems that frequently occur with the Eotechs are:

- The battery contact in the longer models tends to fail
- The Nitrogen filled compartment tends to loose its pressure and the Eotech has to be sent in for repair. The result is a dim to no reticle.

I just sold my EOTECH 557.4XFTS and when the buyer got it he said he couldn't see the reticle! So taking his word for it I refunded him his money after I received it and checked it out for myself. And sure as hell the reticle could barely be seen! So now I sent it to Eotech for refurbishment. Now I gotta sell it again! LoL

Another aspect to a red dot is the mount! QD mounts. When dismounting the red dot a QD mount will maintain the zero, PENDING MANUFACTURER. A twist tension type mount will most likely have to be re-zeroed every time unless you use a torque setting or mark it.

I only use Larue QD mounts as their customer service is awesome as well as their products.

Then there's Co-witeness... To save some typing I'll just post a link for ya

Any other questions about em dont hesitate to ask. Measure twice, shoot once


Here's some info I cut and pasted. Written by Jon Consiglio:

Red Dots - Proper Basic Use and the Reason for Co-Witnessing

Whether it's on the forums or in a training environment, there are a couple things I hear or see that need addressed so those running red dots, or considering purchasing them, can fully understand proper use and get the most out of their set up.

One of these things is people co-witnessing with their irons when firing their weapon. I've heard it mentioned before, but I never realized how common this was until I started paying attention to it. In my opinion, if you take the time to co-witness your irons with your optic every time, you have little more than a painted front sight that cost you hundreds of dollars.

The second thing is seen more than heard on the forums and it is one of the biggest issues I see with the speed of first round hits. What I've noticed many shooters doing is bringing the rifle into a firing position from a ready position, then taking the time to center the dot in the optic, most not even realizing they're doing so. This is counter productive and can slow you down considerably. To get to the bottom of the issue, we need to understand how a red dot works and what it is truly designed to do.

First, let's take a look at zeroing. Very simply, for me, I will co-witness the dot with the iron sights that are already zeroed. Keep in mind that a front sight post is typically 8 MOA and your Aimpoint will be 2 to 4 MOA and your EoTech will be 1 MOA.

See Image 2 below for a lower 1/3rd co-witness.

Once I've done this, I'll set my target at my desired zero range and fire five rounds. Usually I'll be very close and only need very minor corrections, if any.

I'll mention absolute co-witness and 1/3 co-witness quickly. All that an absolute co-witness means is that your irons will line up somewhere near the center of your optic, nothing more. Lower 1/3rd means they'll line up somewhere *in the lower 1/3rd.

This is not exact, but close. This also does not mean that you need to view your red dot in the center or lower 1/3rd at all times, it's just where the irons and red dot co-witness. Contrary to what some believe, co-witnessing with your irons will not be more accurate that using the red dot alone.

This leads me to my next point, which is that centering the dot will do almost nothing for accuracy and will quite likely slow you down. I've seen so many shooters, often LEO's that are somewhat new to red dots, that are showing only minimal improvement on first shot times from a ready position. When we try to figure out the reason, it usually comes down to them centering the dot in the optic.

From a low ready, for example, we should be bringing the rifle to a firing position and firing as soon as we catch a glimpse of the red dot covering the area we intend to shoot. This could mean that the red dot is in the top left corner of the optic, top and center, or to the right and center as I show in images 3, 4 and 5. Only when the shooter can grasp this idea will they show considerable improvements in first shot times.

This isn't so much about the benefits of a red dot as it is proper use, but just to mention a few - a red dot will allow you to focus on the target and not the front sight post or dot. It will be much easier to follow when firing multiple rounds and will also be much more visible in low light. I know very few shooters that cannot shoot faster with a red dot than they can with irons. In most cases, they're more accurate as well.

If I'm firing at 200 meters from the bench, of course I'll center the dot in the optic as I'm trying to be as consistent as possible with my cheek to stock weld and everything else for that matter. But, in most other situations, I'm just looking for a quick flash of the dot covering my intended target in the general area I want to shoot it.

Image 1 - The setup. Aimpoint M4s and KAC folding iron sights. 2" square about 10 feet away.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/7951339912_78594c1fb1.jpg

Image 2 - Lower 1/3rd co-witness. The only time I should see his is when I'm zeroing my rifle or doing a quick check to assure my irons and optic are still zeroed (or close). The reason the dot is slightly above the front sight post is I use a 6 o'clock hold with irons and I hold over the target with the dot.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/7951335236_5ea9375b7c.jpg

Images 3, 4 and 5 - This is how we should view our dot most of the time. The rifle may have moved slightly between pics, but as you can see, the dot is still in the same general place on target regardless of where in the optic it is positioned. The irons and barrel are still in the same place, as is the optic. The only thing that has changed is our view or the red dot. The bullet will still impact the same place in all three pics below.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8169/7951330156_0270c3953f.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8040/7951327644_fdf4c79c82.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8443/7951325290_3871ae92cc.jpg







Image 6 - should our red dot fail or should we enter a brightly lit environment from a dark environment and not have time to adjust our optic, this is how we'll view our irons through the tube. There are other options like using the tube as the rear aperture or viewing the front sight post over the rear aperture, but we'll save that for another time.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8441/7951319462_66bebf0a65.jpg



Here's the proper sight picture with a lower 1/3rd set up with a T1 (rifle is a KAC sr15). Smaller window but same idea.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7234594802_5f0d6904db.jpg

Well, that's about it. This was basically remedial red dot. I just wanted to have something like this posted with pics as I find myself explaining it nearly on a weekly basis. So now, I can just post a link. I didn't want to get into parallax just yet. Even though the Aimpoint is considered parallax-free, there is a small amount at close range.

Oh, keep in mind that when you are using a 3x magnifier with a 4 MOA red dot, the dot is still 4 MOA when viewed at 3x, the dot does become 3 times larger, but so does everything else, which means it still only covers roughly 4" at 100 yards.

I hope this at least gave someone a slightly better understanding of the benefits of a red dot. Done right, it should allow you faster first round hits as well as faster follow up shots, not to mention the benefits when in awkward shooting positions and when the heart is pumping at 180 because it's dark and scary and things are about to get wild.



EDIT - 16 September 2012

I had a Lightfighter/m4c member come in from Ohio to do some shooting this week. It was a perfect example of what I explained in my opening post.

We set up our targets at 7 to 10 yards with an 8" center of mass and an index card on the face. Starting at a relaxed/patrol ready and firing 3 rounds center mass and 2 to the head (index card), he was average 1.2 for the first round and 2.2 for the full drill. After noticing the delay from bringing the rifle to the shoulder and firing the first round, I figured he was searching for the dot or subconsciously trying to center it.

He had already reviewed the red dot post of mine on another forum and we talked about that. I showed him the two videos I took of him firing. He already knows this from numerous advanced classes, but I reminded him to focus on the target, bring the rifle to the shoulder and the dot through his line of sight to the target while continuing to focus on the target. I asked him to fire when there was a flash of the dot on the target.

He did this again, each time firing his first shot between .9 and .99 and the complete drill between 1.85 and just under 2 seconds. This might not sound like a huge difference, but we're talking a 25% improvement in one or two hour's time. We spent Wednesday afternoon and evening on the range as well as Thursday morning and afternoon.

My times were roughly .8 on average for the first round and averaged around 1.7 for the 5 rounds. Anything under 1 second for the first shot from a relaxed position and 2 seconds for the complete drill is good.

If we were starting from a "low ready", which has essentially become nothing more than a shouldered rifle with a view slightly over your optic, then good times should be closer to .8 or less for the first round and under 1.75 for the 5 rounds.
 
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Disregard any earlier disparaging comments I may have made in regards to the HD7. You definitely need to buy one. And, by all means, spend even more money on the ADM QD kit (which isn't actually a mount, just two replacement mounting bolts with QD hardware on the ends). Sounds like the perfect kit for your present and future needs.
 
haha. im just checking to see what people think! ive read alott of good reviews on the lucid. i think ill just go with an aimpoint to support american made products. plus some of my friends will be jealous


Something to keep in mind about online reviews is that a review is only as good as the person who wrote it. If someone had never touched a rifle scope, and looked threw the biggest piece of junk on the market and noticed the image got 10x bigger of course he will think that's a wonderful thing.
 
I've had Aimpoints, EOtechs, and Lucid HD7s. The HD7 offers a lot of bang for the buck: tons of features, seems solid, and uses a common AA battery. Yes you can see the emitter and you can see some red glow if you look at the business end of it. The supplied mount kind of sucks if you want remove and replace the sight frequently and sadly the optional add-on QD almost doubles the price of this optic - really makes it hard to justify because now you are getting close to premium red dot money territory. That said I do think the HD7 is about the best deal going at its $200 price point. Now if you have more cash than that and you think you really need a combat proven red dot then by all means go for it. At around $400 I think the PRO is an excellent value, my only hang up is that Aimpoint chose to use an obscure battery type rather than a common AA or CR123.
 
just an update, doubt anyone cares but i went ahead and bought the lucid. since this is going on my .22 i decided ill wait to see if i want an aimpoint for my ar build. i must say i am very impressed with the sight. 170 shipped. i dont think theres another sight near as good for the money. that ive come across anyways. if anyone is looking for a red dot sight and doesnt have more then 200 to spend id have to recommend this one over anything else in the price range. i dont have a single complaint to be honest.
 
So, we're a few months down the road: how's it holding up?? I'm starting research for a red dot, and both of these made the short-list.

eta: not to start shit: but aren't the ''chinese knockoffs'' made in Wyoming?? Makes me wonder who's really trying to ''justify''
 
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eta: not to start shit: but aren't the ''chinese knockoffs'' made in Wyoming?? Makes me wonder who's really trying to ''justify''

I'm pretty sure that while Lucid may be a company in Wyoming, that all (ALL) of the manufacturing is done overseas by contract manufacturers, and all of their products I've seen were made in China. The model of "US company" with all actual manufacturing in Asia is becoming very common (*cough* Vortex *cough*) and even some previously US makers have adopted it to some extent (like most Burris scopes being made in the Philippines, all or nearly all Bushnell products made in Asia (nicer stuff in Japan, not sure about less expensive stuff), and even some non-riflescope Leupold products, along with most Redfield scopes other than the original (reboot original) Revolution line, being made overseas.

The US design matters, since that's the first and best opportunity to make a junk product, but the overseas contract manufacturer also matters. If it's LOW in Japan the resulting product may be excellent, but if it's China-something it may be less than excellent.
 
So, we're a few months down the road: how's it holding up?? I'm starting research for a red dot, and both of these made the short-list.

eta: not to start shit: but aren't the ''chinese knockoffs'' made in Wyoming?? Makes me wonder who's really trying to ''justify''

If you are trying to state that the lucid is anywhere near the same class as an Aimpoint, the term, "clueless" comes to mind.
 
So, we're a few months down the road: how's it holding up?? I'm starting research for a red dot, and both of these made the short-list.

eta: not to start shit: but aren't the ''chinese knockoffs'' made in Wyoming?? Makes me wonder who's really trying to ''justify''

its holding up great, havent really used it much tho. ive read a ton of reviews on the scope and there almost always positive. ive only put a couple hundred rounds of .22 with the scope on. i ended up getting a variable power scope for the gun. lucid is just sitting in my safe. planned on putting it on my ar15 but i just ordered a nikon m223 for that. i might just end up selling the lucid since its just collecting dust. still have the original box. if anyone is interested, id ship it for $150. is like new, first battery is barely broke in. if i had the extra money id prry get the aimpoint to just say i have an aimpoint lol. the lucid is a great scope for what it costs. i dont see any downsides to it if you really want a red dot sight