Air rifle beats 22 rimfire at the NRA N50

steve123

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Mike's hobby is continual improvement on every aspect of his rifle and slugs, the guy is seemingly tireless. He shoots more than anyone I know as well, so between "everything" he's hard to beat. He sent me a pic of a 250/23x he shot last month, amazing!

Airguns have come a long way and he's partly responsible for that!
 
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TheDave

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Electronic triggers with guns in sleighs. Takes all human element out of the shot. Unless I’m missing something
Wind.

Beyond that, should we all be shooting muzzle loaders? Because optics, rifled barrels, metal chassis, etc. also take the human element out of the shot.
 
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Norman1950

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I have started down the path of Air Rifles and it is sure a different ball game. The factor that attracted to me the guns is the ability to be more accurate.
The way it was explained to me, is that in Air Rifles can regulate the exact same volume of air for each shot. With powder in a 22LR there can be the smallest inconsistencies in which can affect the way the bullet behaves in flight. It is easier to get the standard deviation numbers down to the mid single digits.
More consistent velocities equals the same and repeatable results. Now it is becomes more of the tool behind the trigger than the rifle/ammunition.
 
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22lfb

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It's still the same issue with finding consistent ammo... However it's easyer to sort pellets by weight/size. Which is sort of the "air gunners re-loading". Shooting air guns is the majority of shooting I do. I actually own way more air guns than powder burners :giggle: And my competition rifle is by far the most expensive gun I own...
 
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woogie_man

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The amount of time and energy this shooter does with his rifles is amazing. He leaves nothing to doubt and is an amazing shot on his own. The electronic trigger, and sled complaint is stupid. A light trigger is a light trigger, and all the others are using sleds as well. So the only real difference was the projectile propellant and the shape of the projectile.
 

TurboTrout

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So it’s basically a 50yrd bench deal?

Cool the tech is advancing, but still kinda meh

If it was kicking ass at NRL22 it’d spark my interest
 
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Norman1950

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I shoot with 2 guys that use Air Rifles in out NRL22 Matches and do quite well. We do long range stage, 100, 200 and 300 and they are hitting all 3 distances.

Check out the Rocky Mountain Airgun Challenge, amazing rifles. Top end rifles are about the price of a nicely set up Voodoo
 

seanh

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Electronic triggers with guns in sleighs. Takes all human element out of the shot. Unless I’m missing something
Thats BR for you...very little human element involved. If you want the human element, Standing, kneeling, sitting and prone… you can use a sling, but that's it...no bench, no rest
 

whatsupdoc

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    The amount of time and energy this shooter does with his rifles is amazing. He leaves nothing to doubt and is an amazing shot on his own. The electronic trigger, and sled complaint is stupid. A light trigger is a light trigger, and all the others are using sleds as well. So the only real difference was the projectile propellant and the shape of the projectile.
    What are you talking about? A trigger on the rifle and a button on a box sitting on the bench is NOT the same thing.
     
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    woogie_man

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    Sure it is. A trigger is just a trigger.

    Adjust a competition trigger down as low as it goes and tell me the difference. When you can get triggers in the grams of weight, there is no difference.

    These electronic triggers are hard to shoot and get use to as well. Currently have a RedWolf that has an electronic trigger and it is tough to shoot well after using a traditional trigger.
     

    steve123

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    I outshot my friend today at 300Y with my 25 cal Uragan King PCP in 25 cal using swaged slugs on a 7" diamond which I hit 4 times in a row. He was shooting his Anschutz 54 22rf with RWS target rifle ammo.
    The difference was the wind stayed constant for me. I was using 2.4 mils of windage and my ES is around 10 fps. His wind hold is about half mine but his vertical is more.
    It was a good day for me, I hit the 2.5", 2", 1" spinners with one shot each and also threaded the 1" bell target, all at 100Y. I usually don't hit those 1"ers on the first shot.

    The thing that pisses me off about PCP airguns is POI shifts. Usually it's due to things like, shrouds, barrel bands, or frailty in the system.
    Mikes BR rifle he used for N50 is the opposite, it's over built. It has a one piece and a thick action and a top of the line Muller barrel. It's highly tuned as good as it can be as well and he was tethered to the tank.

    22rf's don't have POI shifts near as much PCP's do, especially Vudoo's, etc. Take my word for it!

    Most PCP's are made for hunting not target shooting. I'll be so excited when the day comes that a powerful PCP repeater is made that will send .2 BC projectiles/slugs at 950-ish fps and is overbuilt like Mike's, about as precise, and of course lacking POI shifts!!!

    One of the worse POI shifting PCP's I've owned was a FX Impact. I never figured out how to correct that. It amazes me that those skinny barrel liners centered with orings in a shroud can hold zero long enough to win a match with but those guys do quite well at RMAC with them.
     

    SkyScrapin

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    I outshot my friend today at 300Y with my 25 cal Uragan King PCP in 25 cal using swaged slugs on a 7" diamond which I hit 4 times in a row. He was shooting his Anschutz 54 22rf with RWS target rifle ammo.
    The difference was the wind stayed constant for me. I was using 2.4 mils of windage and my ES is around 10 fps. His wind hold is about half mine but his vertical is more.
    It was a good day for me, I hit the 2.5", 2", 1" spinners with one shot each and also threaded the 1" bell target, all at 100Y. I usually don't hit those 1"ers on the first shot.

    The thing that pisses me off about PCP airguns is POI shifts. Usually it's due to things like, shrouds, barrel bands, or frailty in the system.
    Mikes BR rifle he used for N50 is the opposite, it's over built. It has a one piece and a thick action and a top of the line Muller barrel. It's highly tuned as good as it can be as well and he was tethered to the tank.

    22rf's don't have POI shifts near as much PCP's do, especially Vudoo's, etc. Take my word for it!

    Most PCP's are made for hunting not target shooting. I'll be so excited when the day comes that a powerful PCP repeater is made that will send .2 BC projectiles/slugs at 950-ish fps and is overbuilt like Mike's, about as precise, and of course lacking POI shifts!!!

    One of the worse POI shifting PCP's I've owned was a FX Impact. I never figured out how to correct that. It amazes me that those skinny barrel liners centered with orings in a shroud can hold zero long enough to win a match with but those guys do quite well at RMAC with them.
    My impact fix mk2 .25 is insanely consistent but I haven’t chased it at range like I have my 22rf setup. They are both equally fun to shoot but the impact is probably more accurate and it’s 33% the cost and way more affordable to shoot.

    I finally found a thermal that works with it and plan on taking a pig in the coming week or two. Might even record it 😆
     

    woogie_man

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    Did just notice that the "trigger" isn't actually on the rifle.

    "Mike Niksch, owner of Thomas Rifles, won the PRO class with a very strong performance. What is remarkable, and perhaps even historic, is that Mike won with an air rifle, defeating all the high-end unlimited-type .22 LR rimfire rifles in the process. This may be the first time an air rifle out-performed high-end rimfire rigs in head-to-head competition, shooting the same targets in the same match. Overall Match Winner and PRO Class runner-up Lou Fontana observed: “The real significance of this weekend is that Mike Niksch and his brand new Thomas Slug air rifle outshot several unlimited .22 LRs in PRO class. This should be a paradigm shift for most. That may have never been done in competition before. I’ll add it was done at the NRA Whittington Center monitored by a NRA Range Officer.”

    Seems that everything was ok with the NRA guys, as he was shooting in the unlimited class...... so yeah
     

    whatsupdoc

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    Sure it is. A trigger is just a trigger.

    Adjust a competition trigger down as low as it goes and tell me the difference. When you can get triggers in the grams of weight, there is no difference.

    These electronic triggers are hard to shoot and get use to as well. Currently have a RedWolf that has an electronic trigger and it is tough to shoot well after using a traditional trigger.


    Did you read my post??????
    Did you see the trigger on the AIR RIFLE it is a BOX ON THE BENCH the shooter makes no contact with the rifle to release the sear.
    Do you really believe this is the same as pulling a trigger on a rifle?


    nat50x13.jpg
     

    seanh

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    So the the electronic triggering mechanism is an issue but 2oz triggers and a 20+# bench vice is cool?

    Do you shoot from a mechanical rest/bipod?

    Yes hitting that button at the proper time is the same as a mechanical trigger
     

    jbell

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    I love air rifles more than anything. I actually sold all my centerfire this past winter to dedicate all my time to air and a little rimfire. However my air rifle game is a bit different than what's being talked about here. I love 10m air!

    IMG_20210303_082427172.jpg
     

    22lfb

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    Ok, this is my current Field Target setup; Steyr LG110 & March Highmaster 10-60x56.

    lg110marchftdm.jpg


    Might not be everyone's cup of tea (even I thin it looks like some sort of prosthetic crutch), but it shoots very well and fits me like a glove!
     

    steve123

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    I love air rifles more than anything. I actually sold all my centerfire this past winter to dedicate all my time to air and a little rimfire. However my air rifle game is a bit different than what's being talked about here. I love 10m air!

    View attachment 7708561
    JB, you should try Field Target. It's all steel knock down targets and often the winners and other highest scoring shooters are at the top because of hitting most of the standing and kneeling shots. I have a feeling you'd be good at this game.
     
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    steve123

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    So the the electronic triggering mechanism is an issue but 2oz triggers and a 20+# bench vice is cool?

    Do you shoot from a mechanical rest/bipod?

    Yes hitting that button at the proper time is the same as a mechanical trigger.


    From a post on AGN forum I read recently, Mike N said that he beat his previous scores when he used his electronic trigger years ago "with his mechanical trigger" afterwards.

    He also stated he does like some other advantages of an electronic trigger vs mechanical. Especially not having to cock the rifle.

    His 2oz mechanical trigger doesn't upset the sight picture one bit. I know because I've shot his last BR rifle. A solid bench, a solid rest, and the weight of the rifle, means the rifle is perfectly stable.
     
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    steve123

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    My impact fix mk2 .25 is insanely consistent but I haven’t chased it at range like I have my 22rf setup. They are both equally fun to shoot but the impact is probably more accurate and it’s 33% the cost and way more affordable to shoot.

    I finally found a thermal that works with it and plan on taking a pig in the coming week or two. Might even record it 😆

    I literally had to rezero my FX Impact every time I shot it. It'd hold zero for the most part for a session but the next day or week it was off at least .2 mil at 30Y and often .5 mil. I felt like smashing that thing against a tree.

    It wasn't inaccurate but not impressive either. 1" at 50Y basically.

    I also had other problems with it. Had to send it back for warranty repair and when the reg failed again I sent it off to my GS to fix it and tune it.

    I liked the high capacity mags is about all I can give a thumbs up on.
     

    steve123

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    Here's my Thomas HPX I named SURELY.

     

    jbell

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    JB, you should try Field Target. It's all steel knock down targets and often the winners and other highest scoring shooters are at the top because of hitting most of the standing and kneeling shots. I have a feeling you'd be good at this game.
    I haven't ever looked into it. I'll see what's around. I just have to pay close attention to hobby creep! Ha
     

    carbonbased

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    What I want to see is a competition in which there is but one rifle that everyone must use. Takes most of the gun part out of the equation.

    Of course, either the gun would have to be quite adjustable or people would have to be put in “weight class” type of groups, sort of like wrestling. As in, small people would compete against small people using a smaller form-factored rifle, and bigger people etc etc.

    I suppose you’d have ultra-putzes that would try to subtly sabotage the gun after their turn. Always one in the crowd. Have to keep a close watch on those fuckers.
     
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    mrt949

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    Saw that at a match .Next match we taped the turet cover during lunch break
    What I want to see is a competition in which there is but one rifle that everyone uses. Takes most of the gun part out of the equation.

    Of course, either the gun would have to be quite adjustable or people would have to be put in “weight class” type of groups, sort of like wrestling. As in, small people would compete against small people using a smaller form-factored rifle, and bigger people etc etc.

    I suppose you’d have ultra-putzes that would try to subtly sabotage the gun after their turn. Always one in the crowd. Have to kept a close watch on those fuckers.
     
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    carbonbased

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    Saw that at a match .Next match we taped the turet cover during lunch break
    It just amazes me that people do this sort of thing. Competition, unchecked, can turn into a sickness. Lord of Flies at the range…

    Edit: @mrt949 do tell me about that incident you reference above.
     
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    mrt949

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    The match was a smalbore rifle silhouette match in 1991 Jacksonville fl.
    The incident happened on day one of a two day match .
    It just amazes me that people do this sort of thing. Competition, unchecked, can turn into a sickness. Lord of Flies at the range…

    Edit: @mrt949 do tell me about that incident you reference above.
     
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    I love air rifles more than anything. I actually sold all my centerfire this past winter to dedicate all my time to air and a little rimfire. However my air rifle game is a bit different than what's being talked about here. I love 10m air!

    View attachment 7708561
    My boy just started 4H air rifle and pistol. I have no idea where to start! It's nuts.
     

    SkyScrapin

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    I literally had to rezero my FX Impact every time I shot it. It'd hold zero for the most part for a session but the next day or week it was off at least .2 mil at 30Y and often .5 mil. I felt like smashing that thing against a tree.

    It wasn't inaccurate but not impressive either. 1" at 50Y basically.

    I also had other problems with it. Had to send it back for warranty repair and when the reg failed again I sent it off to my GS to fix it and tune it.

    I liked the high capacity mags is about all I can give a thumbs up on.

    Mk 1 or Mk 2?

    What caliber?
     

    theLBC

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    i only have one air gun, but it wasn't cheap. on the bright side, i can dump an 8-shot mag in ~2secs.
    if you slow down the playback you can see all 8 shots. this is a .22 inside the house, lol @10 yards.


    did it faster on the second try, but let the poa wander. bottom right was initial zeroing.