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Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

drmarc

ToothDoc
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2003
509
3
Hillbilly , Kentucky
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exc...test=latestnews

gunspiccopy_monster_397x224.jpg


Updated May 14, 2010
EXCLUSIVE: Toy Gun Sold in U.S. Can Easily be Converted to the Real Thing
By Diane Macedo
- FOXNews.com


Felons, illegal immigrants and all others banned from buying a gun in the United States have a new alternative if they’re looking to get their hands on a firearm: Just buy a toy.

A FoxNews.com investigation reveals that a popular recreational pellet gun can be converted easily to a real semi-automatic weapon. And while the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is already aware of the issue, these “toys” -- new, top-of-the-line airsoft rifles -- continue to be sold throughout the country.

Like paintball without the paint, the propane-powered airsoft guns are designed to shoot quarter-inch plastic pellets and are generally used for recreation or in military and law enforcement training.

When the ATF seized a shipment of 30 of these guns in October from a port in Tacoma, Wash., it said they could be “readily convertible” to machine guns. But gun experts called that claim absurd and said the ATF was overstepping its bounds.

Now one of those critics is reversing his position, saying at least one airsoft manufacturer has taken the quest to be authentic a little too far.

“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

Having concluded that several other airsoft guns could not be converted to fire real ammunition, Gonnuscio said he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's.

To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”

And once that's out of the way, the rest is even easier. The AR-15 receiver is the only part of the semi-automatic rifle that is given a serial number, and is the only part that is regulated. All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.

The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.

Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.

But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”

The ATF has made no reported moves to regulate or seize any more of the airsoft guns, which continue to be sold in stores around the country, and it appears to be bowing to critics and reconsidering its stance on the guns' convertibility.

“We’re having to take a serious look at this, so it’s just something that we’re reviewing, and I’m hoping we’ll have some information that we can make available to the public certainly very soon,” ATF spokesman Drew Wade told FoxNews.com.

But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.

The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.

"The ATF is regulating the wrong part as a firearm receiver, not the part that goes bang," Savage said.

“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breech or bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” he added.

The reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that when the gun was created it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number, he said. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.

And though federal law has since defined a gun’s receiver as the part “which provides housing for the hammer, bolt, breechblock and firing mechanism,” Savage says the bureau has continued to mark and regulate the lower part of the AR-15 to avoid confusion.

“In the stream of commerce, you’d have uppers that were marked and regulated and then lowers that were marked and regulated, you could see the confusion on a dealer basis” in determining which parts require licensing and which don’t, Savage said.

But even though the upper half of the gun can be bought by anyone, Gonnuscio still says that banning the airsoft receivers and implementing a few new rules for airsoft manufacturers could be a good start to keeping unregulated AR-15s off the street.

“I would hope that the ATF applies pressure to the manufacturers of these airsoft guns to redesign them so they cannot be converted," he said. "Make them move the pin holes ... so that an upper can’t be attached to it without major machining.

"Fill in some of that gap so that they would literally have to chuck this thing up in a mill and totally reconfigure it to work. Tighten up the magazine well so a regular magazine won’t fit in it.”

And because the U.S. is such a big market for these airsoft guns, Gonnuscio said, a foreign manufacture would change the product if its current design were banned here.

“There are tons of good uses for these guns: We use them for training, kids do reenacting with them, kids get out there and play just like the old days. We played BB gun wars when we were kids and we survived. These are little plastic balls that are shot by electricity or propane.

"So let them have their toys. Just make sure they're still toys.”
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

Inquiring minds want to see a YouTube video of a successful conversion!
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

I may be crazy but doesn't it sound like a plan to make uppers tougher to get?
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

There was one of the Japanese Airsoft makers I can not remember which one . But their Airsoft AR lower was actually a real lower at least as far as the specs on the dimensions and yes it would mate to a real upper(ATF stomped that one as soon as they found out about it). The problem was they were not made of mil spec alloy and I would have been highly reluctant to have actually fired one even though the upper is the part that actually makes the firing possible. I agree with the other poster this sounds like a plan to start regulating gun parts IMO and I have a feeling once they start the lower will still be regulated also. It is probably time to start buying AR parts and putting them away for a rainy day.
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emilio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may be crazy but doesn't it sound like a plan to make uppers tougher to get? </div></div>

ditto, my thoughts exactly.
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

"You go first"



I wanna see an ATF agent dump a beta mag through his converted airsoft.....

Then we can talk.


Good luck
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

Glad I bought my 10 uppers and 10 lowers a few months back. Not to mention parts kits, grips, and so on. They are in a large locked locker in my storage unit
wink.gif


Just in case!
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go ahead, make a firing model with a plastic crap lower, see how many rounds it fires before you dump the cross pins and make a nice bit of work on your hands or face </div></div>

The ones they are talking about are not plastic , they are the full metal airsoft guns. The problem is that they are pot metal and will still end up doing what you were talking about. FAIL in grand style ...
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"You go first"



I wanna see an ATF agent dump a beta mag through his converted airsoft.....

Then we can talk.


Good luck


</div></div>

I can handle the beta mag part if you got the ammo and the ATF guy. I'll YouTube that shit like a mofo!
grin.gif
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

It does seem to me like it would be a lot less trouble for the criminally inclined to steal or otherwise obtain a gun for criminal reasons, rather than spend about a grand on one that may or may not work very well. I don't think most criminals would like <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> kind of paper trail of gun parts leading to their front door. Stupid, stupid, stupid on all parts.

I'm up for videoing if one of those ATF guys wants to test fire one though!
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emilio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may be crazy but doesn't it sound like a plan to make uppers tougher to get?</div></div>

+1
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"You go first"



I wanna see an ATF agent dump a beta mag through his converted airsoft.....

Then we can talk.


Good luck


</div></div>

I'll do it with a 22 conversion all day long. Not anything where something is flying in and out of a buffer tube though. I'm not an ATF agent though.
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weaver126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">these people are idiots. and airsoft guns dont run off propane! </div></div>

Like Shane45 said above, I believe the "Green Gas" airsofter's use is propane with some silicone oil additive in it....I think..
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drmarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: weaver126</div><div class="ubbcode-body">these people are idiots. and airsoft guns dont run off propane! </div></div>

Like Shane45 said above, I believe the "Green Gas" airsofter's use is propane with some silicone oil additive in it....I think.. </div></div>
they do make adapters you can screw to those camping propane bottles to fill the gas airsoft guns. http://www.airsplat.com/Items/GG-AI-PROP-ADAP.htm
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

From what I understand there are better quality of the Airsoft models offered. I was told some of the Japan models are better quality with a higher price also . I have seen a couple of the re-chargeable battery operated Jap AR's and M14's and they are pretty nice feel for weight and spec. size . I am not doubting that some are pot-metal and plastic shit .
I live just down the road from this place. The Airsoft shop that got fucked out of 12-k order of airsoft toys for there Ma&Pa shop that they have next door to there glass shop. (imho) It Is NOT Right and ATF manhandling of the public. ( IMHO ) & and I have little respect for there sometimes underhanded tactics and fistfucking of the Public & the 2nd .
This is the 1st I read of this particular updated report that is posted now. And also I read that ( Leo Gonnuscio ) saying, ... " <span style="font-style: italic">he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's</span>.."
I know Gonnusio and I also know for fact the guy is knowledgeable and a working Smith & also formal trained by uncle sugar and one of your own kind . I was surprised by that statement that he made that I just read, but if he said it could be done . I (personally) then would Not Doubt it .
'I just read this Thread' so now my curiosity is pretty peeked. I will stop by the guys house tonight or tomorrow for my own curiosity and take a look & talk to him about the statements made by him. I am pretty sure it was one of the high quality Jap Airsoft AR Lowers that he used to check out the possibilities of making it function with TG. & working Upper. As I saw one of the battery operated, upper-end-$ Jap airsofts laying in the shop, last I was there.

Also : As far as the statement ,,, " <span style="font-style: italic">Felons, illegal immigrants and all others banned from buying a gun in the United States have a new alternative if they’re looking to get their hands on a firearm: Just buy a toy</span>. "
Around my country . No Need for illegals to buy toy guns. It is perfectly legal for illegal immigrants to buy any firearm plus ammo they want here. Just by showing a few months of residency by having a few months utility bills paid and a state ID card .
.
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"You go first"



I wanna see an ATF agent dump a beta mag through his converted airsoft.....

Then we can talk.


Good luck


</div></div>

I can handle the beta mag part if you got the ammo and the ATF guy. I'll YouTube that shit like a mofo!
grin.gif
</div></div>

I'm in for the ammo.... in keeping with the theme though I should probably donate some wolf stuff.
smile.gif


Who's got an ATF guy they can spare?
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

OK I talked to him ( Gonnuscio ). It is only one model that will convert . It is, 1 - Propane model only . The Airsoft Trigger Group in the unit was 'Not' changed-out & was usable to funtion with only a few strokes of a File work . A working Upper was put strait on the Airsoft Lower and 1 live round was fired without malfunction or destruction of the modified Lower .
.
 
Re: Airsoft Ar's still an issue, update on BS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LFOD1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Inquiring minds want to see a YouTube video of a successful conversion! </div></div>
+1