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Am I foolish for holding out?

B

Boyscout618

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Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 9, 2011
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DC area
For months I have been designing my ideal precision rifle in my head, all based around one stipulation: chambered in 7mm-08. I have hunted with this round my entire life, and I have been thinking of building a long range (out to 800-1000 yards, hopefully, give or take) rig on a fairly tight (read: not custom) budget. The main purpose is a fun range rifle, maybe getting into competition someday. I've searched everywhere, and have been unable to come up with a heavy barrel factory rifle that is available on my budget. My best bet, I'm thinking, is to throw either a 700 SPS, Tikka T3 or Weatherby Vanguard in a chassis or nice(r) stock and see what I can achieve before I save enough to rebarrel to a heavier profile. I want something in the 9-9.5 twist range, I've shot the 150 SMK out of my 9.25 700 thin-barrel hunting rifle to good success (.70" @ 100 yards, farthest I've taken it is 525).

My question is, am I foolish for holding out? Everyone and their mother seems to be jumping on the 6.5 Creedmore bandwagon, and this just doesn't appeal to me. I want something unique, in the same caliber as my hunting rifle because, well, I just do. I have a buddy who reloads for me right now, and I plan on getting into it when I have more time, but that won't be for another year or so. With all the new 6.5CM rifles and ammo coming out, is it worth it to cut my losses and join the lemmings? Or should I keep saving for a custom rig? Secondary question, where can I go from here? How far will a factory rifle in a KRG X-Ray or Bell & Carlson/Manners stock take me? Optics are already acquired, Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP. Thanks for any advice or recommendations!
 
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7mm-08 will be difficult to find factory ammo. Also the cartridge is going to have a hard time pushing the heavy 7mm bullets at fast speeds.

If you don't reload, it's really hard to argue against the 6.5 Creed. There are reasons why so many people are shooting it now adays.

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I would look for used rifles in the classifieds. There are some good deals if you are patient and right now it seems like the market is pretty soft. Take the AIAE mk3 with 2 barrels and all the accessories under 3k, that's a deal. Makes me realize I'm stuck with my mk 3's.
 
Who cares what everyone and their mother is going crazy for? You don't really need any reason to build what you want.. just that you want it. All I would say is that many times, a trendy cartridge like the Creedmor is popular for certain reasons. As long as you realize the limitations/advantages/disadvantages of what you want, go for it.

As far as holding out, I think I would go one of two ways. Custom rifles are expensive, and on top of that - they take quite a while to get parts for and have built. So, what I do is buy parts one piece at a time. Place an order for a stock, it will take a few months to get to you. When funds have recuperated, place an order for an action, then your barrel, then your optics.. you get the point.

Another great option as mentioned above is to get a rifle from the classifieds here on The Hide.
 
I've learned that no matter what. I still want what I want.

You can compromise and get something different but it probably won't end your desire for what you want.
 
A problem with the 7/08 is they are build on short actions typically and as such you can't take advantage of the high BC 7mm bullets. Now a straight .284 win or even your 7/08 built and throated on a long action you can get some solid performance but again your back to custom at a price on dollars and time.

Right now the 6.5creed owns the world and honestly unless your looking to get true top of the heep performance or you are heavily invested in some other caliber in terms of reloading equipment and components I think the 6.5 creed is a no brainer.

And if you don't reload all the more reason. Match ammo is as cheap as it get in 6.5 creed and the open market is receptive to 1x brass so you can get hornady ammo for $25 and the. Resell the brass for $8-$10. Nothing else is touching that these days


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Tikkas rarely take much in the way of "truing". I would get a doner tikka and screw a heavy barrel in 7-08 onto it. Get yourself an x-ray and you'll be good to go! Don't let the "limitations" of your favorite caliber come between you and your rifle of choice. There are plenty of people taking the old shitty 308 past 1k with the 6.5 crowd snickering about their superior caliber. My main suggestion is don't skimp on what you want, because you'll end up buying what you really want anyway wishing you would have done it in the first place.


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TIKKA T3 should fit the bill for a 7-08 build , europtic has donor T3s starting &$498 and tikkaperformance has everything else you will need .7-08 is nice but if you are going for a build anyway 280AI is what I'd choose for extended range shooting non magnum .
 
Take a Tikka 270/30-06 from EuroOptics, and rebarrel it to a 280AI (or 284 Win) would launch high BC 7 mm bullets at very good speed. It will beat 6.5's if increased recoil is no issue
 
Why not go ahead with the 7mm-08 in a Remington action, and later down the road, if you find that you're having trouble finding ammo, or if you want to "sample the green grass on the other side", you can just pick up a Remage 6.5 barrel, and have both calibers without having to buy another gun :D.

Or heck, check out that Switchlug setup, you can send your Remington in to West Texas Ordnance and they can hook you up with a 6.5 barrel and a 7mm-08 barrel and you can swap em' out with only an allen wrench. Either way, you can decide to do these things later on, so there's little to no risk in starting a build right now in 7mm-08 to see how you like it!

(You could also get the 6.5 first and then switch to 7mm-08 if you don't like it. One way or another. More important to just start shooting, shooting will give you a much better idea of what you want.)
 
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For a 7mm you need to go long action for the sake of BC. 7 Rem Mag is great but I think the 280AI is better than that. However, I prefer short actions for competition for several reasons. One reason is keeping a cheek weld when you get to a stage that requires 12 quick rounds is far easier.

People gravitate to the 6.5 for mathematical reasons. I have taken a lot of deer with the 7mm-08 but have since replaced it with a 6.5CM. And I would hardly call the 7mm-08 unique. If you want to stay away away from the herd then go 6.5 SAUM. But the further from the herd you go the more you will need to rely on rolling your own and brass is less plentiful.

I have not put my paws on one yet but I think the Bergara HMR is going to give the Tikka CTR a real run. While my preference is strongly for full customs I am going to pick one of these up (over a CTR) as a back up and to train others. You might want to give it a look.
 
No need to go with a long action or a magnum to play with 7mm at LR. A 162 ELD can easily be driven to 2750-2800 fps with the appropriate COAL (2.9+"), barrel length (24-26") and powder. But it may not fit in a magazine. The 162 ELD has a 0.33 G7 bc IIRC. At 2800 fps it is extremely good, far better than a 308 and equal to a 6.5. Beyond 1000y the 7-08 starts pulling ahead with the high BC bullets. But if you want to stay with 150 gr bullets, I would use a 6.5 with 140-147 grainers instead.
 
Rem 700 sps 7-08
Manners or McM
PT&G Stealth DBM
Accurate Mags Binderless
162 ELD's
Reloder 17
.308 Lapua brass


Tall cotton brother.
 
A bunch of crap here.
Folks shoot 175 to 178 grain bullets in the .308 all the time and think that they are the bee knees.
What the fuck makes them think the 7-08 can't shoot 162 grain bullets faster than the .308 can shoot 175's?
The 162 ELD-M has a very respectable G1 of .670 (far higher than the .30 175 SMK) It is no big deal to push those to 2700 in a 24" barrel.
Occasionally, you can find a Remington Varmint Synthetic in 7-08.
Your best bet, if you want to keep this very reasonable, is to purchase a savage target action (they come with a barrel nut and recoil lug) and purchase a barrel, make sure it has the old style barrel nut, not the smooth one.
This is a pretty good deal, and no, they are not the equivalent of a Criterion or other higher end barrel, but you get the headspace gages and barrel nut wrench.
http://www.eabco.net/E-R-Shaw-Savage-Barrels--24-Varmint-Contour-BlueStainless_p_14134.html

You'll also need a barrel vise, the wheeler one works just fine. They can be had for about 69 bucks. Install in a decent stock and you should be quite happy.
You could do this one of two ways, you can buy the parts from various vendors or you can buy the action and barrel from northland shooters supply (higher barrel cost, but much better barrel).
A KRG or Element chassis will get you on your way.
 
Just commenting.

Years ago I saw exactly the custom rifle I wanted in the classifieds including my cartridge of choice. I estimated the guy spent $3500 to build it new and I bought it for $1900. Most I'd ever spent on a rifle, I borrowed some of the $ and had that paid off in a short while.

Then a few years later I saw a guy selling a HS stock with DBM for cheap, then another guy had a M700/260 barreled action for a decent price. Glass bedded them myself, worked up a load and sold the whole thing for a $250 profit.

Nowadays we have Remage, bugnut, etc. These barrel/nut systems can be installed by anyone.

Just saying, buying new is the most expensive way of doing it.

Patience.









 
Not foolish at all, IMO... go with what works for you.

If it makes you feel any better, I am kicking around a plan for my next build to be a switch-barrel setup with .284 Shehane and 6.5 Addiction barrels. Neither of those are particularly popular chamberings, but I believe that for my uses, they'll be effective.
 
Wow, thanks for all the info guys, I have a lot more to look into now! I guess based on what I'm hearing I like the idea of starting with a factory Tikka in 7-08 (which are 9.5 twist), throwing it in a X-Ray and shooting the crap out of it to build my long range legs and practice with reloading. Once I have that base I can rebarrel to a heavier contour, probably go to a 9 or 9.25 twist for the heavier bullets.

How limited would I be with the AICS or copycat mags as far as OAL for the heavier bullets? My current load OAL for my 700 is at 2.845 and that was pretty close in the internal mag if I remember correctly. I think the 9.5 twist should shoot the 150 SMK (1.250") pretty well, but the ELD-X 162 is 1.478 and the 175 is 1.567...
 
Boyscout618 said:
Wow, thanks for all the info guys, I have a lot more to look into now! I guess based on what I'm hearing I like the idea of starting with a factory Tikka in 7-08 (which are 9.5 twist), throwing it in a X-Ray and shooting the crap out of it to build my long range legs and practice with reloading. Once I have that base I can rebarrel to a heavier contour, probably go to a 9 or 9.25 twist for the heavier bullets.

How limited would I be with the AICS or copycat mags as far as OAL for the heavier bullets? My current load OAL for my 700 is at 2.845 and that was pretty close in the internal mag if I remember correctly. I think the 9.5 twist should shoot the 150 SMK (1.250") pretty well, but the ELD-X 162 is 1.478 and the 175 is 1.567...
Click to expand...

That SMK has a piss poor form factor. You would be better off with the 150 grain eld-x bullet, the G1 is over 100 points higher.
 
Sounds like you have the start of a very cool build op keep us updated as to your progress!
 
Build it. You can take the 7mm-08 and easily compete using Hornadys eld-x ammo. It is somewhat expensive. About $30 per box. But the BC is good (.574) for a 150gr bullet. And you could get it moving with a 26" barrel. Probably 2800fps. Get an action, savage/remington/tikka, order up a barrel (pacnor), and drop it in a B&C stock. There you have a "budget build" that will shoot just as good as any "custom".
 
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Im not really getting the point of this thread. You say you have your "ideal" build planned out. Then your asking if your being foolish for not jumping on a bandwagon that you have no interest in..........
 
I joined the lemmings. Factory match cartridge with a lightly modified factory gun (trigger, stock, handguard) makes me look like a hero as I don't consider myself particularly gifted with a rifle.
 
SuperSneakySniper said:
Why not go ahead with the 7mm-08 in a Remington action, and later down the road, if you find that you're having trouble finding ammo, or if you want to "sample the green grass on the other side", you can just pick up a Remage 6.5 barrel, and have both calibers without having to buy another gun :D.

Or heck, check out that Switchlug setup, you can send your Remington in to West Texas Ordnance and they can hook you up with a 6.5 barrel and a 7mm-08 barrel and you can swap em' out with only an allen wrench. Either way, you can decide to do these things later on, so there's little to no risk in starting a build right now in 7mm-08 to see how you like it!

(You could also get the 6.5 first and then switch to 7mm-08 if you don't like it. One way or another. More important to just start shooting, shooting will give you a much better idea of what you want.)
Click to expand...

This^^ is exactly what I was going to recommend; except that I would start out with the Switchlug system from West Texas Ordinance.

https://westtexordnance.com/switchlug/

https://youtu.be/qjHqB6WMzVM




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Yeah I'm starting to drool over that switchlug myself... Only problem is the only way to get it (that i'm aware of) with an action that has an integral lug, is to get a Manners stock custom fit to it and that's a 7 ish month wait. Unfortunately none of the chassis manufacturers that I'm familiar with can support a recoil lug as thick as an integrated lug + switchlug.
 
Boyscout618 said:
Wow, thanks for all the info guys, I have a lot more to look into now! I guess based on what I'm hearing I like the idea of starting with a factory Tikka in 7-08 (which are 9.5 twist), throwing it in a X-Ray and shooting the crap out of it to build my long range legs and practice with reloading. Once I have that base I can rebarrel to a heavier contour, probably go to a 9 or 9.25 twist for the heavier bullets.

How limited would I be with the AICS or copycat mags as far as OAL for the heavier bullets? My current load OAL for my 700 is at 2.845 and that was pretty close in the internal mag if I remember correctly. I think the 9.5 twist should shoot the 150 SMK (1.250") pretty well, but the ELD-X 162 is 1.478 and the 175 is 1.567...
Click to expand...


I have a Tikka 7-08. It would be a good platform to build off for what you have in mind because it is essentially a long action after replacing or modifying the bolt stop.The dbm and mag would need to be replaced to give you more length, maybe 2.9-3" (?) and that will cost a bit but it's also not too complicated. Or go with a KRG/AICS mag. The factory chambering already accommodates longer rounds.
 
Thanks for all the info guys, it really has helped. May look into getting an action and sending it to Pac-Nor to be trued and have a barrel screwed on, sounds like they have some high quality stuff. Also looks like RW Snyder's BCR wouldn't hurt too bad, as far as customs go. Has anyone had experience with ER Shaw's custom Mk VII? Looks like I could buy the barreled action as I want it and throw it in a stock of my choice....
 
Best advice build your own and have fun doing it. It's gonna be yours when your done. Take your time and do it right
 
Build whatever you want, but you've got to have the $$$ to feed it as well.

6.5 CM would be a lot cheaper to feed it.


 
Boyscout618 said:
Thanks for all the info guys, it really has helped. May look into getting an action and sending it to Pac-Nor to be trued and have a barrel screwed on, sounds like they have some high quality stuff. Also looks like RW Snyder's BCR wouldn't hurt too bad, as far as customs go. Has anyone had experience with ER Shaw's custom Mk VII? Looks like I could buy the barreled action as I want it and throw it in a stock of my choice....
Click to expand...

The ER shaw is simply a savage action, which you could do yourself, though their prices are actually quite good. They also have a very reasonable price for truing and rebarreling a model 700. Understand, this isn't a full blown custom, but a good price for basic work that will likely yield a very good shooter.
 
fdkay said:
The ER shaw is simply a savage action, which you could do yourself, though their prices are actually quite good. They also have a very reasonable price for truing and rebarreling a model 700. Understand, this isn't a full blown custom, but a good price for basic work that will likely yield a very good shooter.
Click to expand...


ER Shaw is about the same quality as a production gun/barrel.

If you are going to do the build, I would not even consider them. Pac Nor is leaps and bounds better quality. Pretty much every other major barrel manufacturer that would be recommended on this site is too.

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NovaHunter said:
ER Shaw is about the same quality as a production gun/barrel.

If you are going to do the build, I would not even consider them. Pac Nor is leaps and bounds better quality. Pretty much every other major barrel manufacturer that would be recommended on this site is too.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

True, they are the same quality as a good production barrel, I never said otherwise.
I have had some very good production rifles with production barrels.
If you actually read my post, I said as much in regards to the barrel.
The difference is, if he is on a budget, he can get the barrel, headspace gages and barrel nut wrench for 200 bucks.
The barrel will likely surpass his abilities and is a good introduction, he will gain experience in changing his barrel and he will have a barrel accurate enough for the task.
 
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