Gunsmithing Am I out of line? Build problems

[sleeplz]

You can get issues with anything firearm related. How the smith or company handles those issues will make or break them though.

Smiths who are “non name” who don’t know what they’re doing will screw up and either learn from it or sink with the ship

Smiths who have built a reputation have that because they know what they are doing and take care of their customers if issues arise

When you go to the smiths your not just paying for the part your paying for the customer service as well.

It’s how places like LRI, Tac Ops etc get the reputation. If you stick with companies who know what they’re doing you’ll come out a happy customer on the other end, period

I have zero issues with using a Smith, but if I can cut down the wait time, why not just buy reputable parts and make it work.

I guess do what you want is the answer. But I remember reading a thread where a guy used a reputable Smith and still had accuracy issues; than tacops had to jump in and help out. Wasted ammo and shipping, that's gonna be a no for me dog.

 

[hafejd30]

I have zero issues with using a Smith, but if I can cut down the wait time, why not just buy reputable parts and make it work.

I guess do what you want is the answer. But I remember reading a thread where a guy used a reputable Smith and still had accuracy issues; than tacops had to jump in and help out. Wasted ammo and shipping, that's gonna be a no for me dog.

I 100% agree with you. Some don’t have the knowledge or tools or they want certain specs etc. Yes tac ops helped that guy out. Which is why he should have just went to tac ops in the first place.

Not everyone has the knowledge or cares to learn it. They just know what they want and want it to work when it gets to them

 

[Dthomas3523]

What should be said is:

Feel free to buy parts and assemble. But know that sometimes it doesn’t always work perfectly as there is no way to make everything universal. You have have to tweak things to feed right or bed if not up to your required standards. So either be ready to do this work yourself or pay a smith. Hope that it works perfectly for you, but don’t be surprised if it doesn’t.

Not:

Just buy things and screw together and it always works.

 

[lash]

But is this 20+ builds, by 20+ different people, with no prior knowledge on assembling a firearm and just want standard prefit barrels etc?

If it is then excellent. But I can’t name 20 people within 20 miles that could take a box of gun parts and assemble them into a usable rifle. Let alone work out the kinks

Now if we’re talking at least 1 knowledgeable person who helps 19+ others that’s a different story. Not everyone has the tools and knowledge when they step up from a factory rifle platform

This is ridiculous. First off, yes you are right in that not everyone can assemble a rifle nor should they. But to assume or tell people that it is magic to assemble a rifle is complete misinformation too. It is not that difficult for anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability to do. Those that say so are full of themselves or full of shit, pick one.

Now this is not to say that anyone can do it, nor does it mean that just because you can assemble high quality parts, that you are a gunsmith. I have assembled rifles with great success, with zero gunsmith training, but a gunsmith does much more.

I’ve also had some very nice rifles built by a competent gunsmith. When I want something truly custom, I hire a good gunsmith. They have the tools, competence and experience to do things that I don’t have. Assembling a bunch of parts does not a fine rifle necessarily make.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This is ridiculous. First off, yes you are right in that not everyone can assemble a rifle nor should they. But to assume or tell people that it is magic to assemble a rifle is complete misinformation too. It is not that difficult for anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability to do. Those that say so are full of themselves or full of shit, pick one.

Now this is not to say that anyone can do it, nor does it mean that just because you can assemble high quality parts, that you are a gunsmith. I have assembled rifles with great success, with zero gunsmith training, but a gunsmith does much more.

I’ve also had some very nice rifles built by a competent gunsmith. When I want something truly custom, I hire a good gunsmith. They have the tools, competence and experience to do things that I don’t have. Assembling a bunch of parts does not a fine rifle necessarily make.

The point is, if it were just as easy as “just bolt it together”

No one would ever have feeding issues, or wandering zeros. Which we see in numbers every single match.

There needs to be an aterisk or caveat along with the build your own recommendations.

 

[sleeplz]

The point is, if it were just as easy as “just bolt it together”

No one would ever have feeding issues, or wandering zeros. Which we see in numbers every single match.

There needs to be an aterisk or caveat along with the build your own recommendations.

Also caveat with going smith route.

 

[DairyDictator]

But I remember reading a thread where a guy used a reputable Smith and still had accuracy issues; than tacops had to jump in and help out. Wasted ammo and shipping, that's gonna be a no for me dog.

Yes tac ops helped that guy out. Which is why he should have just went to tac ops in the first place.

If that's the thread I think it is (and if I remember correctly), the guy sent an Impact action to SAC and they used a Bartlein blank, and a high quality stock. They ended up replacing everything but the action and it still wouldn't shoot. I believe Impact basically blamed everything else for the failure.

I highly doubt sending it to SAC was a mistake, and I don't think sending it to Tac Ops was the only/better solution. Not ragging on Tac Ops in the least, but SAC also generally knows what they're doing. Pretty sure he just got a lemon from Impact.

 

[hafejd30]

I’ve also had some very nice rifles built by a competent gunsmith. When I want something truly custom, I hire a good gunsmith. They have the tools, competence and experience to do things that I don’t have. Assembling a bunch of parts does not a fine rifle necessarily make.

Your last paragraph is exactly what I’m referring to. You just have the knowledge and tools to reach that point

Some don’t, simple as that

Or some just don’t want to and have the money to pay someone that does. I know a decent amount of people, much more fortunate than myself, who would rather pay people to do certain things for them. Be it painting a bedroom to building a rifle.

To those reading this:

No it’s not magic. Yes it’s basic skills. No spending a ton of money with high end parts from a tier 1 smith will not put a gold medal around your neck. Yes I’ve seen rebarrelled savages beat up custom rifles on 1,000 yard fclass lines

Just pay attention to torque specs and you’ll at very least avoid needing the smith anyway

 

[Dthomas3523]

Also caveat with going smith route.

Yes, if you’re not using a well known/trusted smith, you may have issues.

 

[hafejd30]

Reloading your own ammo is also just as easy as assembling your own rifle

But I don’t see Hornady’s ammo division going belly up anytime soon either

 

[FALex]

The shitty thing about your story is that this happened to a Tikka rifle, which untouched, would have easily outperformed this "custom" build.

 

[lash]

The point is, if it were just as easy as “just bolt it together”

No one would ever have feeding issues, or wandering zeros. Which we see in numbers every single match.

There needs to be an aterisk or caveat along with the build your own recommendations.

This is true of an erector set as well.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This is true of an erector set as well.

Play semantics all you want.

Every single match I see it and have to help people. Every week I get multiple PMs here.

Their rifle doesn’t run as bolted together. Once I explain to them they need to tweak a few things, their response is always in one form or another “oh, I read online (a lot of times the hide) all I had to do was bolt it together.”

I also work with a ton of manufacturers (many are hide vendors) and one of if not the biggest complaint and “returns” they see are rifles assembled at home.

 

[Bradu]

And how many of those threads are gunsmith builds.

Which part it the hard part?

1. Putting two pins in a trigger? For fucks sake, they're not even roll pins. Easier than puttin a gas block on.

3. Screwing a 2ft 5lb screw into an action? What happens? You cross thread it?

4. Bolting a barreled action into a stock or chassis? If this is the hard part, I guess you can never take your rifle apart...

Mounting a scope? Gunsmiths tune your mags for you? Putt8ng a muzzle brake or suppressor on? Checking headspace using a piece of brass? Setting your sizing die up?

If these are problems for you, pick a different hobby.

You obviously haven’t seen the shit people fuck up. I’ve fixed several issues that people have attempted when putting together guns. I even had to fix shit bedding jobs from a so called gunsmith. Let’s not forget those that don’t understand the difference between inch pounds and ft pounds... I don’t have any problem assembling my on shit. Look at the people that have no business reloading either but obviously you know it all so no point in discussing this with you.

 

[hafejd30]

You obviously haven’t seen the shit people fuck up. I’ve fixed several issues that people have attempted when putting together guns. I even had to fix shit bedding jobs from a so called gunsmith. Let’s not forget those that don’t understand the difference between inch pounds and ft pounds... I don’t have any problem assembling my on shit. Look at the people that have no business reloading either but obviously you know it all so no point in discussing this with you.

You obviously don’t know what your talking about.... @reubenski knows his shit

Anyone can assemble a rifle. You just buy the pieces, bolt it all together and win matches. Zero knowledge needed!!!

Forget the chance that you use a piece of brass for headspace and crush it because you don’t know what your doing, forget the fact that you’ve never done it before but watched a 5 minute YouTube video and are now a competent gunsmith and forget the fact that these actual gunsmiths have a 1 year waiting list but are just screwing people over who should have just as much knowledge on the subject

This whole thread started because a “gunsmith” fucked up this guys rifle. And that dumbass comes on saying someone who knows nothing about guns should do it themselves. Little eye opening there fuck stick, the guy who thought he knew what he was doing put the OP in this predicament in the first place

Your wasting your time with this reubenski fucktard

 

[Rthur]

Have measured plus .006 on a prefit on a very popular custom action.


R

 

[hafejd30]

Have measured plus .006 on a prefit on a very popular custom action.


R

Fake news

You just bolt that bitch on and destroy the X-Ring at 1K!!!

 

[Bradu]

Name and describe, briefly, the long range, precision rifles you own.

Daisy red Ryder and a crickett 22 but not sure what this has to do with anything.

 

[Bradu]

You obviously don’t know what your talking about.... @reubenski knows his shit

Anyone can assemble a rifle. You just buy the pieces, bolt it all together and win matches. Zero knowledge needed!!!

Forget the chance that you use a piece of brass for headspace and crush it because you don’t know what your doing, forget the fact that you’ve never done it before but watched a 5 minute YouTube video and are now a competent gunsmith and forget the fact that these actual gunsmiths have a 1 year waiting list but are just screwing people over who should have just as much knowledge on the subject

This whole thread started because a “gunsmith” fucked up this guys rifle. And that dumbass comes on saying someone who knows nothing about guns should do it themselves. Little eye opening there fuck stick, the guy who thought he knew what he was doing put the OP in this predicament in the first place

Your wasting your time with this reubenski fucktard

Apparently, listing my rifles is the new format for a resume on here Makes perfect sense to me

 

[hafejd30]

Does it not occur to you that the example you're using is....exactly opposite....the point you're trying to make? There have been more "gunsmith fucked up my build" threads than there have been "I ordered a prefit and it did you work out for me" threads. Prove me wrong.

So you want to get offensive, make it personal, and call names, huh? A moderator is arguing this point with you and doesn't see anything wrong with your conduct? @Dthomas3523 Is this how we're going to do it? Just let me know....

Your literally tattling on me?? Lolololol

If I get banned for stressing the fact that those who don’t know anything about assembling a rifle should go to a person who makes his living off doing that then so be it

I’d rather get banned then have someone blow a rifle up in their face or hurt someone else because they tried to do something they knew nothing about and didn’t think it was at least a good idea to consult a smith

It’s like telling someone to adjust a trigger when they aren’t comfortable with it or know nothing about it. It’s not just turn some screws and call it good. Wake up buttercup there is some common sense involved here

 

[Bradu]

Argue it on it's merits. Don't cop out. What do you got?

What's the hard part?

1. Installing a trigger?

3. Screwing a barrel on?

4. Bolting a barreled action into a stock or chassis?

5. Mounting a scope?

6. Tuning a mag?

7. Puttng a muzzle brake or suppressor on?

8. Checking headspace using a piece of brass?

9. Setting your sizing die up?

Oh look, I can screw on a barrel

 

[hafejd30]

Go ahead. Keep not addressing each simple step. Just so we all know you're a "play it safe" fudd that shoots a R700

Sending me PM’s won’t change anything big guy.....

 

[Bradu]

Go ahead. Keep not addressing each simple step. Just so we all know you're a "play it safe" fudd that shoots a R700

Not even my gun but it's good to see how judgemental you are. Oh look, the poors are here

Desert tech covert, desert tech srs, sako trg22, two AIAE mk 3's and a few custom built rifles. Are you happy now or do I need to provide pics? Let's hear your collection...

Not once did I say there is anything difficult about it. There are a lot of people that struggle to mount a scope and you think they should be assembling rifles. Look at the people that gall stainless because they don't know to use antiseize. I can go on and on why the average person shouldn't assemble their own gun but it's pointless discussing it with you.

 

[hafejd30]

Not even my gun but it's good to see how judgemental you are. Oh look, the poors are here

Desert tech covert, desert tech srs, sako trg22, two AIAE mk 3's and a few custom built rifles. Are you happy now or do I need to provide pics? Let's hear your collection...

Not once did I say there is anything difficult about it. There are a lot of people that struggle to mount a scope and you think they should be assembling rifles. Look at the people that gall stainless because they don't know to use antiseize. I can go on and on why the average person shouldn't assemble their own gun but it's pointless discussing it with you.

I say at this point we just hit the ignore button....

To the OP,

You can ask for a refund but if it doesn’t work out I wouldn’t make a stink about it. Just eat the $$ and walk away.

In the future if you want a reputable gunsmith just post what you want on here and more than likely the reputable smiths will contact you. They are literally that good. If you don’t feel comfortable there’s no reason to buy the tools/gauges and attempt yourself.

If you choose to approach it yourself then do your research for quality components and the correct way to assemble all of it with the proper ft/in lbs setting so you don’t destroy anything

Best of luck to you sir. Tikka’s are excellent guns/actions and when you are done you’ll have a great rifle

Sorry for tying your thread up with nonsense

hafejd30 out.

 

[sleeplz]

Oh look, I can screw on a barrel
View attachment 7512453

Don't do it you madlad, without a reputable gunsmith certificate you might forget inch lbs to ft lbs while your in the process. Noooo.

 

[Bradu]

Really all we're talking about here is screwing a prefit on right? Is some guy buying a TriggerTech for his rifle, "building a rifle"? Is ordering a self-timing muzzle brake and putting it on building a rifle? Is buying an MPA, MDT ACC, KRG Bravo and putting it in building a rifle? Is mounting a scope building a rifle? These upgrades happen all the time and don't constitute building a rifle. Yes, people have issues with each of these steps. Their ability to problem solve and trouble shoot on their own is what keeps it from being a thread in this forum or not. And these threads will never stop. Ive been in here since 2008 and have seen it the entire time.

Really, the only step that isn't common practice is ordering a prefit and putting it on. The only risk you run is getting a fucked up prefit. Which is the same risk you run in getting a fucked up barrel installed by a fucked up smith. After all, smiths are chambering and threading barrels and selling them as prefits through the mail. Very little difference between them chambering a barrel and threading it on without testing it first.

The vast majority of smiths do not test feeding. They do not tune mags for you. They do not time triggers. They do not, as a matter of routine, mount your scope for you.

So if you want to build your own rifle with a prefit barrel and action that accepts prefits, yes...you must do a little bit of research and learning to assemble it for yourself. No different than doing some research on setting mag height when upgrading to an MPA chassis or what torque to use on the rear screw of a Manners stock with their unsupported tang. Or why AW mags aren't working so hot in your two lug action. Its all a learning curve and we'veall been through it. To include issues with Smiths.

People learn languages, learn to code, learn to wrench, learn to wire their own addition to their house, pour concrete, install their own air-lockers....all the fucking time. Yes, the wide margin of human competence <-> incompetence also means that people put gasoline in diesel engines, accidentally delete files, cant reticles, overdose, electrocute themselves, etc.

Change my mind: screwing together a rifle using a prefit barrel is No more dangerous than the process of reloading. But you're not on the reloading forum screaming about the sky falling are you?

There will always be an example of why someone shouldn't do something. I'm pretty sure the two guys trying to "win the internet " do all these things themselves and didn't listen to the elitists that told them they shouldn't try. Probably there wasn't a gang of marys telling them not to at the time.

Honestly this last bit of dumpster fire is really about online posturing. Guys thought @kadams15was coming off as arrogant and started ganging up. Just a bunch of internet tough guys. Id love to meet @hafejd30 person and see how much of a billy badass he really is.

You have no idea of my background so how are you going to keep running your mouth? You quietly dismissed my list of guns to make me qualified to have this discussion and neglected to post yours since we are apparently having a dick measuring contest

We can also discuss the amount of people that can't set up a die properly since you brought it up. Just take a look at the amount of case head separations out there, all you have to do is Google that and read for days...

I fix other mechanics fuck ups daily so I can say that even most of them have no business putting a gun together along with a lot of other people unless they have some guidance. I don't mean YouTube either.

 

[DairyDictator]

Well that was fun....

How assembling a rifle became a hissy fit is beyond me.
Bunch of middle aged housewives.....

 

[Bradu]

I didn't "quietly dismiss" your shit. I was typing.

This is a classic case of, "I CAN'T CONTROL THE VOLUME OF MY OWN VOICE!"

WTF are we talking about here? NOONE should assemble their own rifle using a prefit and well know stock/ chassis? Or ANYONE can assemble a rifle using anything they buy online? We're both speaking in absolutes on the opposite spectrum as we start to narrow in on details. Talking past each other. Really because both want to stuff each other in the face so bad. Its all clever emojis and sarcastic bullshit.

So you pay a smith to do everything for you with your stable of elite rifles?

I'm actually enjoying watching you act like a child. I've said what I've had to say and even gave examples of why people have issues all while you wanted me to post what rifles I own as that somehow makes me qualified or not Watching you post how you want to meet the other guy in person because we both know you aren't going to do shit. This is cheap entertainment for me on a Saturday night Oh fuck, there's thise damn emojis again lol

 

[Bradu]

Btw, I'm done with this. Sorry OP.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Does it not occur to you that the example you're using is....exactly opposite....the point you're trying to make? There have been more "gunsmith fucked up my build" threads than there have been "I ordered a prefit and it did you work out for me" threads. Prove me wrong.

So you want to get offensive, make it personal, and call names, huh? A moderator is arguing this point with you and doesn't see anything wrong with your conduct? @Dthomas3523 Is this how we're going to do it? Just let me know....

I hadn’t seen read the post since then.

And no, it’s not. But I guess everyone already got belligerent already

 

[TheGerman]

I've dealt with great gunsmiths (one is on here) and I've played the fuck fuck waiting bullshit shell game version as well with others.

Other than not wanting a seperate build/scope for each caliber, the other reason I got the MRAD was so that I never had to fuck around with any of this again.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

My very last rebarrel was a hot dumpster fire of a transaction. A somewhat well known smith that is a active vendor here. Evasive communication, long wait time, over charged from quoted price, sloppy work, and incorrect chamber. Since that transaction I've built several guns and ordered four more prefit barrels. If I can avoid a gunsmith I absolutely will.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Sometimes the overwhelming urge to have a new Shiny Thing, overwhelms common sense.
We've all played in that field, and been spattered in shit accordingly.
Take time to research your gunsmiths.
I love the wealth of knowledge on this site.
Pillage that information for your own interests.
I'm lucky in that I have my machine tools at work, and outstanding gunsmiths locally.
Snipers Hide has helped out people I know, as well as myself.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Peenie Weenie Competition

.17 - .22: Peenie so small, you need to squat to piss.... Girlie Man.

.303: A real man with respectable Man Bits.

.30-06: Yup, them be decent Monkey Junk.

.308: No worries, got the all situations peenie

6.5 Creedmoor: The "Rock Star" of the Rifle world.....size and talent.

.338 Lapua Magnum: Manly Manliness!
Move over chaps, the Porn Star has arrived!

.50 : Over compensating.

All joking aside, it doesn't matter a jot what people own or shoot.
Just shoot what you have, and enjoy.

 

[DairyDictator]

Peenie Weenie Competition

.17 - .22: Peenie so small, you need to squat to piss.... Girlie Man.

.303: A real man with respectable Man Bits.

.30-06: Yup, them be decent Monkey Junk.

.308: No worries, got the all situations peenie

6.5 Creedmoor: The "Rock Star" of the Rifle world.....size and talent.

.338 Lapua Magnum: Manly Manliness!
Move over chaps, the Porn Star has arrived!

.50 : Over compensating.

All joking aside, it doesn't matter a jot what people own or shoot.
Just shoot what you have, and enjoy.

Does that mean my 6 millimeter peter is average??

 

[Lawnboi]

The smith is returning some of the money. So I’ll refrain from blasting him on the internet.

 

[Superjet]

The smith is returning some of the money. So I’ll refrain from blasting him on the internet.

Good to hear. Have you shot the damn thing yet?

 

[FjallJager]

There are a million factors that can fuck up a rifle. The best thing you can do is just move on and realize you got an education. Never use that dude again.

LIke above; Tikka pre-fits, Tikka drop in stocks and you are done.

 

[Lawnboi]

Good to hear. Have you shot the damn thing yet?

Negative holidays are slowing me down. I’d like to put a box or 2 of factory ammo through it but it’s not looking like that’s going to happen since I can’t find a single box. I do have all the components I need to get going just need to make some ammo.

On a side note I did end up finding 3 pounds of varget today. Now I have enough to justify trying some 124 hammer hunters in this rifle.