Am I planning this precision reloading properly

[JimGnitecki]

This is a sort of sanity check. I recently bought an LMT MWSE rifle (308 caliber AR-10 type semiauto rifle, with 16 inch chromelined barrel). I want to make ammunition far superior in consistency than what I could make on my existing Dillon 650 progressive machine (which I am selling). Speed and volume are not the targets. Accuracy, consistency, and the ability to “feel” every step of every cartridge are.

I have posted this question on 2 sites that I have come to really like, because they both have very knowledgeable and experienced members: Snipershide.com and SIGforum.com.

So, here we go . . .

The ammunition starting point is:

Sierra Matchking 175g bullet (because I want to be able to shoot 700 yards)
Lapua 308 cases (Bought 200 new, on sale)
Winchester large rifle primer
IMR 4895 powder (everyone says this powder absolutely will work as a starting point)

Here’s a listing of the tools I want to try using, most either here already, or on their way from Sinclair, Bruno’s, and Harrell’s:

Tumbler

Corn cob media

Polish for tumbling cases? (needed or just a pollutant on the cases?)

Case lubricant - Imperial Sizing Die Wax, applied by hand, not lube pad

Harrell Turret press (turret, so that once set ideally, dies will never be disturbed)

Shell holders (Redding #1 pn 11001)
Shell holders (Redding set of graduated competition shell holders – to use with sizing die to change or control sized case headspace, as needed, without disturbing die once set)

Redding pn 69100 decapping die

Redding pn 36155die set with:
Sizing die (Type S Match Full Length with titanium nitride coated bushing )
Seating die (Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die, with micrometer adjustment)
Redding titanium nitride sizing bushing, size = .336”,pn = 76336 . Bushing sized to make neck ID .003” under bullet diameter (.308” bullet + .155 case neck thickness x 2 - .003)
Redding carbide sizing button kit pn 49307

Sinclair lock ring pliers for Redding dies

Case trimming tool: Sinclair-Wilson Ultimate Stainless with stand & micrometer adjustment
Wilson carbide cutter for ss micro case trimmer
308 case holder for Wilson ss micro case trimmer - for new (unfired) cases
308 case holder for Wilson ss micro case trimmer for fired cases
Case holder clamp for Wilson ss micro case trimmer
Wilson handheld case mouth deburring tool (outside of neck)
Case mouth chamfering tool (inside of neck)
Case neck brush

No Expander die (instead controlling neck-to-bullet squeeze via .336 external bushing noted above)

Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall gauge to determine ideal case-base-to-bullet-ogive dimension

Hornady (Stoney Point Chamber-All) Bullet Comparator Body PLUS headspace bushing set (to measure headspace on fired cases and then reloaded cases)
308 bullet ogive gage insert for above
Hornady anvil base for above (make the comparator / headspace tools easier to use consistently)

Primer pocket cleaner
Primer pocket uniformer tool
Flash hole deburring, chamfering, uniforming tool - Sinclair
Priming tool - Sinclair PT-2000
Sinclair priming tool shell holder for 308

RCBS combo powder dispenser and digital scale
Case powder funnel - aluminum, for 308

Loading blocks
Cartridge case (50) x4
Wilson 308 cartridge case gage


Here’s my proposed process:


Determination of Ideal Base to Bullet Ogive
Purpose: Determine ideal base to bullet ogive dimension that places bullet .010" to .020" short of lands contact.
Use Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall gauge with 308 special threaded case to determine point of lands contact.
Use digital calipers + Stoney Point bullet comparator body + 308 bullet ogive gage insert + Hornady anvil base to determine base to ogive dimensions, when just touching lands.
Subtract 0.010" to 0.020" to get ideal starting base to bullet ogive dimension. Record.
Measure & record ideal OAL of cartridge.
Tools: Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall Gage, special threaded 308 case, digital calipers, Stoney Point bullet comparator body, 308 bullet ogive gage insert, anvil base

Case metrics
Purpose: Determine how firing in MY rifle has altered case dimensions, and use that information to set up case sizing & bullet seating to optimal dimensions for rifle accuracy and case life.
Take measurements on a good sized sampling of unfired & fired cases, where unfired cases match the brand & lot number of the fired ones (DONE)
Measure unfired cases: body diameter, OAL, outside neck diameter, inside neck diameter, neck wall thickness (reconcile to OD & ID measurements) , headspace, COAL.
Measure fired cases: body diameter, OAL, outside neck diameter, inside neck diameter, neck wall thickness (reconcile to OD & ID measurements) , headspace.
Calculate differences.
Weigh cases, & segregate by weight
Calculate & record ideal target dimensions for cases being loaded:
Case OD - just below shoulder .4549” (= fired case OD .4579 - .003")
Case OD - just above base .4687” (= fired case OD .4717 - .003')
Neck OD .336” (= .308 bullet dia + case neck wall thickness .155 x 2, - .003")
Headspace not yet done (= fired case headspace - .002" to .003")
Case OAL 2.008” (based on dimensions of unfired Lapua and Federal cases as delivered)
Cartridge OAL = Determined by previous operation, but expect to be somewhere near 2.800 (per posting thread suggestions & Federal GM actually measured. MAKE SURE IT WILL FIT IN P-MAGS!!)
Case weight range = not yet done
Tools: Digital caliper, digital micrometer, bullet comparator body, headspace bushing, anvil base, digital scale
Supplies: unfired cases, fired cases

Clean cases in tumbler
Tools: Tumbler
Supplies: Corn media

Inspect cases (any obvious defects, bulging, cracks, etc)

Lubricate case with Imperial die wax
Apply just enough, not enough to cause case denting.
Supplies: Imperial Die wax

Deprime
Deprime fired cases on station 1 of 308 turret of Harrell turret press.
Tools: Harrell press, 308 turret, Redding shellholders, Redding decapping die

Set sizing die
Install correct neck sizing bushing into Redding sizing die to get Neck OD = .308 bullet dia + case neck wall thickness x 2, - .003" = .336” bushing
Install +.010 graduated shellholder into press.
Install Redding sizing die into station 2 of 308 turret on Harrell press, bottoming it on the shellholder?
Size a fired case, measure, & change to lower height shellholder in sequence (i.e. +.080", +.060", +.040", and so on) to get to optimal dimensions previously determined.
Compare headspace. Case OD, neck OD, and case OAL to ideal dimensions previously determined, & determine how to handle deviations from ideal.
Repeat sizing an UNFIRED case. Note any differences, and determine how to handle.
Final tighten die & recheck.
Record correct graduated shellholder size!
Tools: Press, 308 turret, sizing die, neck sizing bushing, graduated shellholders, digital caliper, digital micrometer, bullet comparator body, headspace bushing, anvil base
Supplies: unfired AND fired cases

Size cases
Size cases to optimal dimensions via preset sizing die in station 2 of 308 turret, using correct previously determined graduated shellholder.
Tools: Previously set up 308 turret, press
Supplies: unfired or fired cases

Trim cases
Trim cases to optimal predetermined length = 2.008”
Tools: Wilson case trimmer, 308 insert (for "new" or "fired" cases, depending on what batch being trimmed)
Supplies: Sized cases (fired or unfired)

Case neck turning: No (NOT recommended for semiauto rifles – too much stretch upon firing)

Deburr case mouth (outside)
Deburr outside of case mouth, using Wilson hand deburring tool
Tools: Wilson hand deburring tool
Supplies: Trimmed cases

Chamfer case mouth (inside)
Chamfer case mouth (inside) (sometimes little or no chamfering needed for boattail bullets) using Wilson chamfering tool on Wilson trimmer
Tools: Wilson chamfering tool, Wilson trimmer
Supplies: Trimmed cases

Remove lubricant from cases
Supplies: Lubed cases, paper toweling

Clean primer pockets
Tool: Primer pocket cleaner

Uniform primer pockets
Tool: Primer pocket uniformer tool

Flash hole perfecting
Tool: Flash hole deburring, chamfering, uniforming tool

Reweigh cases
Reweigh cases after all metal removing operations have been completed, & resegregate if necessary
Tools: digital scale

Priming
Prime case– seat primers to .003” to .008” below case head. 006” is ideal for semiauto
Tools: Sinclair priming tool, large rifle primer insert

Set target bullet velocity
Set targeted bullet velocity based on loading manual & replicating Federal GM 175g ballistics

Add powder
Weigh & add powder (based on loading manual, based on bullet weight & type, and on targeted velocity)
Current bullet weight & type = 175g Sierra Matchking boattail
Current muzzle velocity target = ? From ?? Inch barrel
Current powder = IMR 4895
Current target powder weight (grains) = safe starting point much lower than 43.5?

Sort bullets
Sort bullets by weight & dimensions:
Segregate bullets by weight
Segregate bullets by base to ogive dimension
Tools: digital scale, digital calipers, bullet comparator, anvil base
Supplies: Bullets

Seat bullets
Use Redding micrometer seating die in station 3 of Harrell turret press.
Seat bullet - to correct OAL : Bullet .010” to .020” short of rifling for semiauto rifle, AND fit into magazine with LONGEST bullets (bullet OAL often varies by .015 to .020”)
Pre-determined ideal case base to bullet ogive = ? (determine via earlier operation)
Set Redding micrometer seating die to attain ideal case base to bullet ogive dimension.
Tools: Press, seating die in station 3, Stoney Point bullet comparator, 308 bullet ogive insert, anvil base
Supplies: sized & trimmed & perfected cases, bullets

Crimp bullet NO! Use neck tension alone, via bushing in die, with sized neck ID = .003” smaller than bullet diameter

Inspection, metrics, recordkeeping
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge fits properly within Wilson 308 cartridge gage.
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge has correct headspace per Stoney Point headspace bushing.
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge has correct case base to bullet ogive dimension per Stoney Point bullet comparator.
Measure case body OD.
Measure neck OD.
Complete Ammunition Batch Data Form
Tools: Digital caliper, digital micrometer, Stoney Point bullet comparator, headspace bushing, anvil base
Supplies: Completed cartridges, batch data form

Box
Insert completed inspected cartridges into ammunition boxes.
Tools: None
Supplies: Boxes, completed inspected cartridges

Label
Complete a label for each box of ammunition. Label contents:
Date
Caliber
Bullet
Process ID
Batch ID

So, have I got this right?
Any errors?
Any omissions?
Any suggested improvements?

Please post your advice . . .

Jim G

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

I wouldn't sort cases or bullets, Lapua and Sierra do a good job already. I'd determine the set back on the case when sizing after firing, as you said 2-3 thousandths. I'd also trim to 2.005. I would deburr the flash hole but not play with the primer pocket. Seat the bullet out to max mag length if you plan on mag feeding.

Good shooting.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

That will work great, but is RIDICULOUS. See my sig line. You'll be much better iff spending that time on the range than at the bench.

Personally, I'd keep the dillon and load on it. I do. Ammo is fantastic!

My rig:

Dillon 650 with casefeeder
Gemini 20 electronic scale
Satern funnel
Forster bushing/bump die (also have their FLS)
sinclair expander
Forster ultramic seater
Lyman tumbler and thumlers vibrator and thumlers rotary tumbler
Corncob and stainless media
Rotary media separator
Case gage
Hex style comparator

4895 will work. Also consider Varget and RE15.

Do a pair of ladders with each powder, bullets jammed. Find max pressure and identify potential loads. Do OCW test, finalize nodes and their limits. Fine tune seating depth.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

turbo54: You say to start with the bullet jammed into the rifling. That raises pressure. Is that to ensure that as you work your way up in powder grains, you see pressure signs in the WORST configuration (bullet jammed into the rifling) so that any variance in OAL after that will if anything LOWER the pressure?

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd also trim to 2.005.
</div></div>

Why 2.005 specifically?

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

There are usually many other shooters at the range, and my LMT throws the fired cases about 2 bays to the right, successfully mixing them with other shooters' cases.

What kind of marker or other marking device is safe to use to mark the base of my cases so I, and others, can quickly identify them? I don't want to use anything that could damage the innards of the rifle when it gets heated and ejected.

Marker? Paint? Or ?

Jim G

 

[turbo54]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">turbo54: You say to start with the bullet jammed into the rifling. That raises pressure. Is that to ensure that as you work your way up in powder grains, you see pressure signs in the WORST configuration (bullet jammed into the rifling) so that any variance in OAL after that will if anything LOWER the pressure?

Jim G </div></div>

Thats right. Identify pressure at worst case scenario, which is bullet jammed. This way you'll never be surprised. Once your OCW is done and you've identified the seating depth your rifle likes, you can redo the pressure ladders at the NEW seating depth, and check for new nodes. If found - do another OCW... it can be an iterative process if you wanna get anal about it - sounds like you might.

 

[JByrd]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

check check check on supplies. drop tumbler/corncob, get thumler tumbler and stainless tumbling media"you can thank me and alota other people later for that suggestion" get a chargemaster.and you will soon forget about sorting all your components as you begin to shoot more, i have seen very little if any diff. in results. time spent shooting watching winds effect will far outweigh weighing and sorting proj.brass. your on the right track and anal enough about details to be on the right track

 

[TRAAV]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Wow

 

[SPAK]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

For the lapua cases, don't worry about the flash holes. Just spot check them to make sure they're open.

I wouldn't weigh the cases either if you're sticking to lapua.

Get a cheapo brass catcher or deflector to keep your brass close by.

You may or may not be able to reach the lands with your bullets. If you can, great. I'd start .020" off the lands to start personally, but I understand the rationale of starting jammed. I just think it's hard to maintain that "jam" with the variations of ogive dimensions unless your sorting by ogive. For this application I don't think it's necessary.

If you can't seat to the lands then seat to mag length and call it good.

Varget is a good powder to use for the .308 as well.

What are you accuracy goals??? Consider your limitations as well as the rifle's accuracy potential in your evaluation... As stated before, nothing will improve accuracy more than trigger time.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Ok, I am hearing loud and clear "thumler tumbler and stainless tumbling media" and also "Varget" powder, so I'll make those changes.

My accuracy goals are currently very limited by my inexperience with rifle shooting. Although I can shoot a handgun reasonably well (on good days I can fire 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards from compact sized semiautos), I have never been taught how to shoot a precision rifle properly.

I have gotten Jeff Cooper's book on rifle shooting (a bit dated now - e.g. almost no coverage on bipods), "Green Eyes and Black Rifles", and a couple of others. I have a squeeze bag but my Atlas bipod was just shipped from B&T yesterday and should arrive next week. The SOPMOD carbine stock on my LMT MWSE rifle is a disaster for precision shooting, as the adjustment lever keeps getting hit by the squeeze bag, and collapses the stock on recoil. I'm thinking a Magpul ACS would be better (adjustment lever is shielded), and would not require permanently altering the rifle (i.e. no Magpul PSS, since that would require breaking the staking on the LMT buffer tube). But, I am afraid that stock might not collapse as much as the SOPMOD, and I want the rifle short for easy storage and transport (we live in an RV).

With my current lack of experience and proper support tools, my last 2 range sessions, using Federal Gold Medal, average 3-shot groups that are still a full 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 inches at 100 yards, because I cannot get a consistent position and hold from shot to shot. I know the rifle is capable of VERY good accuracy, because when I do my act together for a couple of shots, it places the holes on top of each other.

I know I need a lot of trigger time, but I cant afford $1.10 per round for Gold Medal, and can make BETTER than Gold Medal for $.55 with current pricing for components, so figure I'll work both the handloading ladder and the shooting equipment and skills ladder simultaneously. My work schedule allows me to get to the very nearby pistol range once per week, but only allows me to get to the rifle range (an hour each way) only every 2nd week. So, each range session has to really count.

I am enjoying the process a LOT. Very relaxing. The range session is a terrific way to spend a morning now that the Texas weather is finally getting cooler. And I am very patient about details in hand loading - it's not a chore for me, but rather a joy.

Yes, I am a bit anal on things that I get enthused about. It stems from my work. I work at Texas Department of Safety (the TX state police), as a project manager, and my most important current assignment is securing all incoming / outgoing FTP data exchanges to all applicable CJIS and state standards. That REQUIRES being both anal and persistent.

Will Varget run CLEANER than IMR 4895 (not Hodgdon H4895)? My rifle is direct impingement, not piston.

What's a good starting point for Varget with a 175g Sierra Matchking?

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

My fired versus unfired Federal Gold medal cases showed the following amounts of expansion as a result of firing:

Case OD near base: .0036" (from .4681" unfired to .4717" fired)

Case OD just under shoulder: .0060" (from .4519 to .4579)

Case OAL: .0033 (from 2.0085 to 2.0110)

Neck OD: .0065 (from .3391 to .3456)

Does this give us any clues as to the size of my chamber compared to typical in a semiauto 308? (LMT MWSE is rated 308 versus 7.62x51)

Jim G

 

[SPAK]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Formal instruction is always best.

That being said, myself along with many others on the hide have benefitted from the online training offered here.

The video lessons there will give you enough to work on for a long time.

It's an investment up front but well worth it.

Consistency is key. I wouldn't get too wrapped up around the reloading. You're using good equipment so that takes out some of the potential troubles.

I'd spend some time working up a load, but definitely more time practicing the fundamentals. Trying to work up your load without good fundamentals will drive you nuts.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd also trim to 2.005.
</div></div>

Why 2.005 specifically?

Jim G </div></div>

Because 2.015 is the max length and 2.005 is the trim to length for the case.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

I think you are over thinking it a little, but wasn't sure how to not sound like I'm being too harsh, you are loading for a semiauto not a bench gun.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Ok, the reason for 2.005" is a good one. I had noticed that both the Federal and the Hornday had been at 2.008 or so, but if 2.005 is the trim to length, that is appropriate.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are over thinking it a little, but wasn't sure how to not sound like I'm being too harsh, you are loading for a semiauto not a bench gun. </div></div>

Yes, but an LMT MWSE is good to 700 or 800 yards with the chrome lined barrel, and 1000 with the s.s. barrel I can get for $500. So, I WANT to overthink it!

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

I probably over thought my 1000 yard loads a little, too. That's why I didn't want to come off too harsh. I load all my rifle ammo on a T-7 one at a time. I've met a lot of people who load short range ammo, 200 and 300 yard on a progressive and single load and weigh out powder for 600 and out.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

On powders... I'm getting the feeling you are under the impression you can simply pick one and move on. Not so. I recommend you try several and see what works. Varget has proven itself in many 308s but it isn't *the* powder necessarily. Lots of gas operated 308s love 4895. You should try it too. I recommend H4895 though, because I have personally ALWAYS had best results with Hodgdon. Plus, Hodgdon powders are quite temp stable. Other standby powders to consider are 4064, RE15 and 8208XBR .... NOT a comprehensive list, but all good 308 powders. That said, I can say with 95+% confidence that if a 308 rifle *can* shoot, it'll shoot with Varget....with few exceptions!

You mentioned cost savings... LOL! Goid luck with that. Sure, component cost per round is $0.55 or so, but after you tool up and spend the time.....and buy every fancy new gadget....it really isn't so cheap afterall to load your own. Not to say don't do it, I LOVE reloading and wouldn't have it any other way, but the fact is making great precision ammo costs a lot!

On doing load development with bullets jammed....

I forgot you've got a factory throated gun. Don't bother jamming bullets. Seat to magazine length at first, then try deeper in your fine tuning OCW.


The stainless media is a great tool to have in your repertoire, but should not be your only cleaning media. Its too much of a hassle to do all the time. Consider some kind of case drying scheme too. I built a heated, positive-ventilation drying box that works great.....only another $50! See what I mean about costs??

Have fun

 

[JGorski]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a sort of sanity check. I recently bought an LMT MWSE rifle (308 caliber AR-10 type semiauto rifle, with 16 inch chromelined barrel). I want to make ammunition far superior in consistency than what I could make on my existing Dillon 650 progressive machine (which I am selling). Speed and volume are not the targets. Accuracy, consistency, and the ability to “feel” every step of every cartridge are.

I have posted this question on 2 sites that I have come to really like, because they both have very knowledgeable and experienced members: Snipershide.com and SIGforum.com.

So, here we go . . .

The ammunition starting point is:

Sierra Matchking 175g bullet (because I want to be able to shoot 700 yards)
Lapua 308 cases (Bought 200 new, on sale)
Winchester large rifle primer
IMR 4895 powder (everyone says this powder absolutely will work as a starting point)

Here’s a listing of the tools I want to try using, most either here already, or on their way from Sinclair, Bruno’s, and Harrell’s:

Tumbler

Corn cob media

Polish for tumbling cases? (needed or just a pollutant on the cases?)

Case lubricant - Imperial Sizing Die Wax, applied by hand, not lube pad

Harrell Turret press (turret, so that once set ideally, dies will never be disturbed)

Shell holders (Redding #1 pn 11001)
Shell holders (Redding set of graduated competition shell holders – to use with sizing die to change or control sized case headspace, as needed, without disturbing die once set)

Redding pn 69100 decapping die

Redding pn 36155die set with:
Sizing die (Type S Match Full Length with titanium nitride coated bushing )
Seating die (Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die, with micrometer adjustment)
Redding titanium nitride sizing bushing, size = .336”,pn = 76336 . Bushing sized to make neck ID .003” under bullet diameter (.308” bullet + .155 case neck thickness x 2 - .003)
Redding carbide sizing button kit pn 49307

Sinclair lock ring pliers for Redding dies

Case trimming tool: Sinclair-Wilson Ultimate Stainless with stand & micrometer adjustment
Wilson carbide cutter for ss micro case trimmer
308 case holder for Wilson ss micro case trimmer - for new (unfired) cases
308 case holder for Wilson ss micro case trimmer for fired cases
Case holder clamp for Wilson ss micro case trimmer
Wilson handheld case mouth deburring tool (outside of neck)
Case mouth chamfering tool (inside of neck)
Case neck brush

No Expander die (instead controlling neck-to-bullet squeeze via .336 external bushing noted above)

Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall gauge to determine ideal case-base-to-bullet-ogive dimension

Hornady (Stoney Point Chamber-All) Bullet Comparator Body PLUS headspace bushing set (to measure headspace on fired cases and then reloaded cases)
308 bullet ogive gage insert for above
Hornady anvil base for above (make the comparator / headspace tools easier to use consistently)

Primer pocket cleaner
Primer pocket uniformer tool
Flash hole deburring, chamfering, uniforming tool - Sinclair
Priming tool - Sinclair PT-2000
Sinclair priming tool shell holder for 308

RCBS combo powder dispenser and digital scale
Case powder funnel - aluminum, for 308

Loading blocks
Cartridge case (50) x4
Wilson 308 cartridge case gage


Here’s my proposed process:


Determination of Ideal Base to Bullet Ogive
Purpose: Determine ideal base to bullet ogive dimension that places bullet .010" to .020" short of lands contact.
Use Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall gauge with 308 special threaded case to determine point of lands contact.
Use digital calipers + Stoney Point bullet comparator body + 308 bullet ogive gage insert + Hornady anvil base to determine base to ogive dimensions, when just touching lands.
Subtract 0.010" to 0.020" to get ideal starting base to bullet ogive dimension. Record.
Measure & record ideal OAL of cartridge.
Tools: Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall Gage, special threaded 308 case, digital calipers, Stoney Point bullet comparator body, 308 bullet ogive gage insert, anvil base

Case metrics
Purpose: Determine how firing in MY rifle has altered case dimensions, and use that information to set up case sizing & bullet seating to optimal dimensions for rifle accuracy and case life.
Take measurements on a good sized sampling of unfired & fired cases, where unfired cases match the brand & lot number of the fired ones (DONE)
Measure unfired cases: body diameter, OAL, outside neck diameter, inside neck diameter, neck wall thickness (reconcile to OD & ID measurements) , headspace, COAL.
Measure fired cases: body diameter, OAL, outside neck diameter, inside neck diameter, neck wall thickness (reconcile to OD & ID measurements) , headspace.
Calculate differences.
Weigh cases, & segregate by weight
Calculate & record ideal target dimensions for cases being loaded:
Case OD - just below shoulder .4549” (= fired case OD .4579 - .003")
Case OD - just above base .4687” (= fired case OD .4717 - .003')
Neck OD .336” (= .308 bullet dia + case neck wall thickness .155 x 2, - .003")
Headspace not yet done (= fired case headspace - .002" to .003")
Case OAL 2.008” (based on dimensions of unfired Lapua and Federal cases as delivered)
Cartridge OAL = Determined by previous operation, but expect to be somewhere near 2.800 (per posting thread suggestions & Federal GM actually measured. MAKE SURE IT WILL FIT IN P-MAGS!!)
Case weight range = not yet done
Tools: Digital caliper, digital micrometer, bullet comparator body, headspace bushing, anvil base, digital scale
Supplies: unfired cases, fired cases

Clean cases in tumbler
Tools: Tumbler
Supplies: Corn media

Inspect cases (any obvious defects, bulging, cracks, etc)

Lubricate case with Imperial die wax
Apply just enough, not enough to cause case denting.
Supplies: Imperial Die wax

Deprime
Deprime fired cases on station 1 of 308 turret of Harrell turret press.
Tools: Harrell press, 308 turret, Redding shellholders, Redding decapping die

Set sizing die
Install correct neck sizing bushing into Redding sizing die to get Neck OD = .308 bullet dia + case neck wall thickness x 2, - .003" = .336” bushing
Install +.010 graduated shellholder into press.
Install Redding sizing die into station 2 of 308 turret on Harrell press, bottoming it on the shellholder?
Size a fired case, measure, & change to lower height shellholder in sequence (i.e. +.080", +.060", +.040", and so on) to get to optimal dimensions previously determined.
Compare headspace. Case OD, neck OD, and case OAL to ideal dimensions previously determined, & determine how to handle deviations from ideal.
Repeat sizing an UNFIRED case. Note any differences, and determine how to handle.
Final tighten die & recheck.
Record correct graduated shellholder size!
Tools: Press, 308 turret, sizing die, neck sizing bushing, graduated shellholders, digital caliper, digital micrometer, bullet comparator body, headspace bushing, anvil base
Supplies: unfired AND fired cases

Size cases
Size cases to optimal dimensions via preset sizing die in station 2 of 308 turret, using correct previously determined graduated shellholder.
Tools: Previously set up 308 turret, press
Supplies: unfired or fired cases

Trim cases
Trim cases to optimal predetermined length = 2.008”
Tools: Wilson case trimmer, 308 insert (for "new" or "fired" cases, depending on what batch being trimmed)
Supplies: Sized cases (fired or unfired)

Case neck turning: No (NOT recommended for semiauto rifles – too much stretch upon firing)

Deburr case mouth (outside)
Deburr outside of case mouth, using Wilson hand deburring tool
Tools: Wilson hand deburring tool
Supplies: Trimmed cases

Chamfer case mouth (inside)
Chamfer case mouth (inside) (sometimes little or no chamfering needed for boattail bullets) using Wilson chamfering tool on Wilson trimmer
Tools: Wilson chamfering tool, Wilson trimmer
Supplies: Trimmed cases

Remove lubricant from cases
Supplies: Lubed cases, paper toweling

Clean primer pockets
Tool: Primer pocket cleaner

Uniform primer pockets
Tool: Primer pocket uniformer tool

Flash hole perfecting
Tool: Flash hole deburring, chamfering, uniforming tool

Reweigh cases
Reweigh cases after all metal removing operations have been completed, & resegregate if necessary
Tools: digital scale

Priming
Prime case– seat primers to .003” to .008” below case head. 006” is ideal for semiauto
Tools: Sinclair priming tool, large rifle primer insert

Set target bullet velocity
Set targeted bullet velocity based on loading manual & replicating Federal GM 175g ballistics

Add powder
Weigh & add powder (based on loading manual, based on bullet weight & type, and on targeted velocity)
Current bullet weight & type = 175g Sierra Matchking boattail
Current muzzle velocity target = ? From ?? Inch barrel
Current powder = IMR 4895
Current target powder weight (grains) = safe starting point much lower than 43.5?

Sort bullets
Sort bullets by weight & dimensions:
Segregate bullets by weight
Segregate bullets by base to ogive dimension
Tools: digital scale, digital calipers, bullet comparator, anvil base
Supplies: Bullets

Seat bullets
Use Redding micrometer seating die in station 3 of Harrell turret press.
Seat bullet - to correct OAL : Bullet .010” to .020” short of rifling for semiauto rifle, AND fit into magazine with LONGEST bullets (bullet OAL often varies by .015 to .020”)
Pre-determined ideal case base to bullet ogive = ? (determine via earlier operation)
Set Redding micrometer seating die to attain ideal case base to bullet ogive dimension.
Tools: Press, seating die in station 3, Stoney Point bullet comparator, 308 bullet ogive insert, anvil base
Supplies: sized & trimmed & perfected cases, bullets

Crimp bullet NO! Use neck tension alone, via bushing in die, with sized neck ID = .003” smaller than bullet diameter

Inspection, metrics, recordkeeping
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge fits properly within Wilson 308 cartridge gage.
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge has correct headspace per Stoney Point headspace bushing.
Check to ensure that each completed cartridge has correct case base to bullet ogive dimension per Stoney Point bullet comparator.
Measure case body OD.
Measure neck OD.
Complete Ammunition Batch Data Form
Tools: Digital caliper, digital micrometer, Stoney Point bullet comparator, headspace bushing, anvil base
Supplies: Completed cartridges, batch data form

Box
Insert completed inspected cartridges into ammunition boxes.
Tools: None
Supplies: Boxes, completed inspected cartridges

Label
Complete a label for each box of ammunition. Label contents:
Date
Caliber
Bullet
Process ID
Batch ID

So, have I got this right?
Any errors?
Any omissions?
Any suggested improvements?

Please post your advice . . .

Jim G
</div></div>
I can tell you right now the .336 Bushing wont work for Lapua cases, I got one and there is absolutely no tension on the bullets, NONE. I went with a RCBS Tungston Disulfide .334 bushing for my new lapua brass and .331 for Win cases. And I use the Hornady NS match dies, they work very well and theyre less expensive than Redding or RCBS. I would'nt worry about a micrometer seating die, just set those 175MKs to 2.830" OAL and theyll shoot as good as anything. Mink oil or Hornadys Unique case lube will work instead of the much more expensive Imperial wax. No need to weight Lapua cases, they already come sorted from the factory, but beware of a lot of neck tension when you seat your first bullets, they size them well from the factory, too. You might have to run the mouth of the case over the expander if the necks happen to be dinged like some of mine were, then chamfer them again even though lapua does that at the factory. O

Once you fire them youll notice the .336 bushing wont give you any tension when you go to resize them. Bullet will push in with ease with your fingers. Luckily Midway gave me a refund so to speak with $18.99 for the .336 Hornady bushing in midway money or whatever its called. Im thinking about lubing the inside of the necks when I seat my next round of bullets since the necks are pretty tight(Unfired Lapua brass). Im awaiting my order from Hornady which includes seating stems that fit their Match bullets, then maybe I wont have an indent on the jackets when I seat the Hornady 178HPBTs in the unfired brass. Thats how tight the new lapua brass is. Otherwise everything else you mentioned sounds like youre building a Benchrest rifle, in other words, youre spending way too much on reloading accessories, but its your money. Im getting over 2700fps with PP2000MR powder in my 700 SPSS, varget or RE15 is a favorite for many shooting the 175MK.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I am hearing loud and clear "thumler tumbler and stainless tumbling media" and also "Varget" powder, so I'll make those changes.

My accuracy goals are currently very limited by my inexperience with rifle shooting. Although I can shoot a handgun reasonably well (on good days I can fire 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards from compact sized semiautos), I have never been taught how to shoot a precision rifle properly.

I have gotten Jeff Cooper's book on rifle shooting (a bit dated now - e.g. almost no coverage on bipods), "Green Eyes and Black Rifles", and a couple of others. I have a squeeze bag but my Atlas bipod was just shipped from B&T yesterday and should arrive next week. The SOPMOD carbine stock on my LMT MWSE rifle is a disaster for precision shooting, as the adjustment lever keeps getting hit by the squeeze bag, and collapses the stock on recoil. I'm thinking a Magpul ACS would be better (adjustment lever is shielded), and would not require permanently altering the rifle (i.e. no Magpul PSS, since that would require breaking the staking on the LMT buffer tube). But, I am afraid that stock might not collapse as much as the SOPMOD, and I want the rifle short for easy storage and transport (we live in an RV).

With my current lack of experience and proper support tools, my last 2 range sessions, using Federal Gold Medal, average 3-shot groups that are still a full 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 inches at 100 yards, because I cannot get a consistent position and hold from shot to shot. I know the rifle is capable of VERY good accuracy, because when I do my act together for a couple of shots, it places the holes on top of each other.

I know I need a lot of trigger time, but I cant afford $1.10 per round for Gold Medal, and can make BETTER than Gold Medal for $.55 with current pricing for components, so figure I'll work both the handloading ladder and the shooting equipment and skills ladder simultaneously. My work schedule allows me to get to the very nearby pistol range once per week, but only allows me to get to the rifle range (an hour each way) only every 2nd week. So, each range session has to really count.

I am enjoying the process a LOT. Very relaxing. The range session is a terrific way to spend a morning now that the Texas weather is finally getting cooler. And I am very patient about details in hand loading - it's not a chore for me, but rather a joy.

Yes, I am a bit anal on things that I get enthused about. It stems from my work. I work at Texas Department of Safety (the TX state police), as a project manager, and my most important current assignment is securing all incoming / outgoing FTP data exchanges to all applicable CJIS and state standards. That REQUIRES being both anal and persistent.

Will Varget run CLEANER than IMR 4895 (not Hodgdon H4895)? My rifle is direct impingement, not piston.

What's a good starting point for Varget with a 175g Sierra Matchking?

Jim G </div></div>
Check this site out.
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

JGorski: Thank-you for all the feedback! Lots to digest. I have previosuly read that article you referenced too.

Jim G

 

[JGorski]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JGorski: Thank-you for all the feedback! Lots to digest. I have previosuly read that article you referenced too.

Jim G
</div></div>
If youre going to trim your lapua brass you really dont need to trim it down that far, just find the one piece of brass thats the shortest and trim them all to that length, mine were all within .002" so I dint bother trimming them, just checked some now and they went 2.008-2.010", just load em up and go shooting. No other prepping need to be done with Lapua brass. If I can help you any other way just whistle, lol

 

[turbo54]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JGorski: Thank-you for all the feedback! Lots to digest. I have previosuly read that article you referenced too.

Jim G
</div></div>
If youre going to trim your lapua brass you really dont need to trim it down that far, just find the one piece of brass thats the shortest and trim them all to that length, mine were all within .002" so I dint bother trimming them, just checked some now and they went 2.008-2.010", just load em up and go shooting. No other prepping need to be done with Lapua brass. If I can help you any other way just whistle, lol </div></div>

My personal belief is to keep necks long. I advise measuring your chamber and determining max allowable case length and measuring your cases (just a few, not the whole lot) every 2-3 firings. When you're within .005" of max, trim them back so they're .010"-.015" away from max. This minimizes throat erosion, helps maintain cartridge concentricity, minimizes the amount of material to be trimmed when you do trim, and therefore minimizes the "burr" on the outside of the caseneck you need to remove after trimming.

Or get a giraud and trim to .005" under max every other firing.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My personal belief is to keep necks long. I advise measuring your chamber and determining max allowable case length and measuring your cases (just a few, not the whole lot) every 2-3 firings. When you're within .005" of max, trim them back so they're .010"-.015" away from max. This minimizes throat erosion, helps maintain cartridge concentricity, minimizes the amount of material to be trimmed when you do trim, and therefore minimizes the "burr" on the outside of the caseneck you need to remove after trimming.

Or get a giraud and trim to .005" under max every other firing. </div></div>

I understand the logic. It also seems to me that the slight extra case length provides a slight more total neck tension without increasing the "interference fit" of the case versus bullet, since the area of contact is proportional to length of the neck.

Jim G

 

[turbo54]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

After reviewing the OPs shopping list again, I HIGHLY advise spending a little extra money on a Giraud trimmer. I know it's pricey (~$450), but your intended trimming "rig" isn't cheap either, yet the giraud is FAR, FAR superior.

Research it a bit and I'm sure you'll agree. Plus, the resale of them is absolutely outstanding. When you're done with it, it will literally sell for $400 in less than 10 minutes here on the hide.

And again, being your list already carries a high pricetag, I suggest you order a sinclair expander die, and some expander or turning mandrels. These things are incredibly useful! I size my .308 Lapua cases down with a .330 bushing in my Forster die. Then I run into the sinclair expander die with the .308 "turning" mandrel, which leaves the case ID at .306 for .002" neck "tension". This yields great consistency in bullet seating and concentricity.

And one last appeal:

Please reconsider your choice to ditch your Dillon 650. I Love, Love, LOVE my Dillon 650 for loading "precision target ammo". The casefeeder makes case handling so easy, and it allows me to do all kinds of operations very quickly.

Here is what I do (briefly)...

1. Put Lee universal Decapper in toolhead
2. Dump fired cases into casefeeder
3. Quickly/easily, and with one hand, decap cases
4. Dump cases into rotary tumbler with stainless media
5. Install toolhead with.... Station 1: Forster bushing/bump die...... Station 2: Sinclair expander..... Station 3: Satern Funnel...... Station 4: Empty, when the ram is up, I stick a bullet into the case sticking out of the toolhead...... Station 5: Forster ultraseater....

Thats all there is to it. I can't imagine going back to a single state, or even a turret press. I can load precision target ammo just as fast as I can dole out weighed charges, for which I use a RCBS uniflow to throw a charge onto my Gemini 20 digital scale, and adjust as necessary to achieve +/- .04gr.

No better way to do it, as far as I'm concerned, and I've tried a bunch of different methods.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reviewing the OPs shopping list again, I HIGHLY advise spending a little extra money on a Giraud trimmer. I know it's pricey (~$450), but your intended trimming "rig" isn't cheap either, yet the giraud is FAR, FAR superior.

Research it a bit and I'm sure you'll agree. Plus, the resale of them is absolutely outstanding. When you're done with it, it will literally sell for $400 in less than 10 minutes here on the hide.

And again, being your list already carries a high pricetag, I suggest you order a sinclair expander die, and some expander or turning mandrels. These things are incredibly useful! I size my .308 Lapua cases down with a .330 bushing in my Forster die. Then I run into the sinclair expander die with the .308 "turning" mandrel, which leaves the case ID at .306 for .002" neck "tension". This yields great consistency in bullet seating and concentricity.

And one last appeal:

Please reconsider your choice to ditch your Dillon 650. I Love, Love, LOVE my Dillon 650 for loading "precision target ammo". The casefeeder makes case handling so easy, and it allows me to do all kinds of operations very quickly.

Here is what I do (briefly)...

1. Put Lee universal Decapper in toolhead
2. Dump fired cases into casefeeder
3. Quickly/easily, and with one hand, decap cases
4. Dump cases into rotary tumbler with stainless media
5. Install toolhead with.... Station 1: Forster bushing/bump die...... Station 2: Sinclair expander..... Station 3: Satern Funnel...... Station 4: Empty, when the ram is up, I stick a bullet into the case sticking out of the toolhead...... Station 5: Forster ultraseater....

Thats all there is to it. I can't imagine going back to a single state, or even a turret press. I can load precision target ammo just as fast as I can dole out weighed charges, for which I use a RCBS uniflow to throw a charge onto my Gemini 20 digital scale, and adjust as necessary to achieve +/- .04gr.

No better way to do it, as far as I'm concerned, and I've tried a bunch of different methods.
</div></div>

I understand the logic behind both the Giraud trimmer and Dillon progressive advice. But both violate the new rules I have implemented because we live in an RV:
- Anything I use must be simple, preferably handpwoered versus electric (the RCBS dispenser / scale is a necessary evil until I can find something smaller & simpler, like a small Harrell powder dispenser plus higher precision digital scale to set and check the Harrell's output)
- Anything I use must be SMALL and as LIGHTWEIGHT as possible

I know the Dillon 650 is excellent as far as progressives go, but having used 4 650s over the years, I know where its feel and its precision are not quite there - no criticism of Dillon intended with this remark - the Dillon 650 is about as excellent as a high speed machine can be made. But even in its role as a high speed machine, it DOES screw up at times, and when you use it as a slow, precision tool, it's not what it was specifically designed for, and there are better choices in my opinion. And, it's just waaaaay to large to jusitfy the valuable square footage it is consuming in the confines of the RV given the little time it is actulaly being run.

I also HAD a power trimmer years ago, the best available at the time, and I just don't like that approach. I want a small. manual operation that I can observe closely and slowly and control very precisely. The Sinclair / Wilson ss Ultimate trimemr satisfies the criteria that I have set for the way I want to do trimming.

I am debating whether or not to do the stainless steel pin media / Thumbler thing. I am put off by the need to use water and the messy process of post-tumbling separation of cases, water, and tiny ss pins, without making as heck of a mess and losing pins down the drain. I'm going to look for a filter that will trap the .040" diameter ss pins but let the water through.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

As for Lapua quality . . .

I did notice that the Lapua cases measured out (digital micrometer and digital caliper)WAY more consistent than either the Federal Gold Medal or the Hornady A-Max cases did. It was right there, clearly visible in the numbers. Not just a tiny bit more consistent, but hugely more consistent.

I figure though that if I go through all these time consuming steps, I;d feel silly skipping the "easy" steps of case measuring and correction, because . . . .

Note that even Lapua screws up. I sampled 15 cases from ONE sealed box of 100 new cases, and found that about half had neck wall thickness of .0155, and the other half .0165! Clearly, cases from 2 different production lines got packed in the same box. This of course necessitates segregating the 2 sizes at a minimum, and changing neck sizing bushing if I want to keep all cartridges in a finished ammo box the same.

To add insult to injury, the Lapua rep who replied to my orignal inquiry about thickness of Lapua 308 cases told me that he measured a handful of them himself after getting my email, and found they were all .0150"! They DO vary, despite their consistency on most other metrics of the case.

The Stoney Point Chamber-All Overall Gage, coupled with the special threaded 308 case, will give me the distance from case base to rifling contact. I then measure that case base to ogive measurement using the bullet comparator with 308 insert, and the anvil base, in the digital caliper. If I back off .010" to .020" and make my ammo that way, will that be a safe starting point? I know some find that running the bullet right into the rifling a bit provides better results on some rifles, but again I figured I'd start at a nice safe setting.

I'm new to precision rifle handloading, so keep the advice coming.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Jim, you really dont need to seat your bullets into the lands if youre using MKs, magazine length should work just fine, but run some test and see for yourself, maybe itll work for ya.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim, you really dont need to seat your bullets into the lands if youre using MKs, magazine length should work just fine, but run some test and see for yourself, maybe itll work for ya. </div></div>

I'm hoping so, since I want to use ONLY ammunition that feeds from the magazine. No single round loading directly into the chamber. The rifle has to remain a semiauto, not a "bolt gun".

Jim G

 

[Merlin_019]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Also 2 weeks into loading .308 standard and subsonics. Where did you find a deal on the brass? For the experienced vets, I'm looking at the powder charge and scale combos. The Chargemaster combo is high on my list. All have a large number of great values and still have substantial 1 star reviews to their credit. Any solid advice? Thanks in advance!

 

[Ring]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also HAD a power trimmer years ago, the best available at the time, and I just don't like that approach. I want a small. manual operation that I can observe closely and slowly and control very precisely.</div></div>

dont discount the little lee trimmer.. its fast and accurate, and can be powdered by a cordless screwdriver or drill if needed

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

The Lapua cases were on sale at Cabela's a copule of weeks ago, at $.55 each. Not sure if that deal expired or ?

The combo dispenser and scale units have both advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:

- Convenient - dial up the number of grains you want once, and do other operations on your handloading while the scle dispenses each laod for you

- Good (not perfect or great) accuracy

Disadvantages:

- Very susceptible to any strong air currents you might have in your room (e.g. AC kicking on, heat kicking on). The more sensitive (better) the scale is, the more suceptible it is. You need to keep it sheltered. This is why the betetr ones come with a clear plastic pivoting cover for the scale paltform

- Very LARGE (this is why I am about to sell my RCBS combo unit, as we live now in an RV with limited space)

- Accuracy is good, but not perfect. It can vary +/- a tenth of a grain and still be "per manufacturer specs"

- Slower to use than a powder measure (that has been set up using a scale as a check, of course)

The most accurate is apaprently the Prometheus, which is both large and very expensive, but apaprently very accurate.

I intend to replace my RCBS combo unit with a very precise SMALL scale, plus a SMALL powder measure that will attach onto my Harrell turret press.

Jim G

 

[Tomcat]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Have you considered a Chrono to test the speed?

Also - I have a S1050, 650, 550, and a Forster.

I am not satisfied with way Dillon throws Varget. I get variences of +-.5 grain with their thrower. If I let the poweder settle, then a full grain over is quite common.

I use the stainless media - my process:
Decap using a universal decapper, (no sizing) on the 650.
Clean in SS (Messy yes, but they come out like brand new)
Trim using a Dillon trimmer / resizer on the 650.

Resize and prime on the 650.

Powder up using a Chargemaster

Seat on the Forster single stage using a Redding Micrometer die.

Crimp on either the 550 or 650 or the Forster.

I know its convoluted, but I gain some efficiency using the 650. My concern is that I cant feel if primer pockets are expanding using the progressive press, maybe Ill switch to hand priming.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Yes, a chronograph is in my future plans. Probably an Oehler, as I ahve plans for that second "check" channel. Need to save up some more disposable cash.

Jim G

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Loading in an RV changes things a little. Cuts down on storage space.

 

[Ballistic308]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Charge those cases with 42.1g of IMR 4895 and seat them to 2.805" and call it done. That is the OCW.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

What does "OCW" mean?

Jim G

 

[Ballistic308]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does "OCW" mean?

Jim G </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">O</span></span>ptimal <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">C</span></span>harge <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">W</span></span>eight

Got here for the load development: http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

And go here for his forum: http://practicalrifler.6.forumer.com/index.php?sid=0c480cb44f2230dcaace7e4671c27bcd

 

[seanh]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

if cases are getting flung that far out try getting an adjustable gas block. The last AR I had I was able to tune the cycling so that the cases were within arms reach.

You'll have to retune the block when you swithch load but it's real easy to do....simple turn of a screw

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

IS the gas block on the LMT MWSE actually easily replaceable? Remember, the LMT MWSE has a unique barrel that is user-changeable.

Jim G

 

[Lockdown1243]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

150g Hornady SST's
Winchester Brass
45.0g Varget
Fed 210M Primers
2.810 COAL

This is a great load out of the 16" CL barrel, I'm shooting .5-.6 MOA FIVE shot groups all day with this and it's very cheap. It has a super low SD and ES. Average FPS on this load is 2426. Enjoy a wonderful purchase. I'm running a NF NXS NP-R1 5.5-22x50 scope on mine.

Also look at RL15 for increasing your velocity as well. I will post results from that as well. The name of the game is to get as much out of the 16" barrell that you can.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

The only way for the Stoney point tool to ACCURATELY measure you seating depth is to modify a case fired in your rifle. Take one and have a machinest drill and thread it for the tool. You'll come out waaaayyy better.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

If you are going to all that trouble to make the gun shoot, get a brass catcher. No way would I allow my cases to be flung 10' or more and then put them in my dies or chamber.

Get one of those cheap fold up net laundry baskets from Wal Mart and cut one side of it out. Stand it next to your ejection port and it will catch every case that comes out. No damage and no searching for Lapua brass among all of the other things on the ground.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lockdown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">150g Hornady SST's
Winchester Brass
45.0g Varget
Fed 210M Primers
2.810 COAL

This is a great load out of the 16" CL barrel, I'm shooting .5-.6 MOA FIVE shot groups all day with this and it's very cheap. It has a super low SD and ES. Average FPS on this load is 2426. Enjoy a wonderful purchase. I'm running a NF NXS NP-R1 5.5-22x50 scope on mine.

Also look at RL15 for increasing your velocity as well. I will post results from that as well. The name of the game is to get as much out of the 16" barrell that you can. </div></div>

Wow! I have the Matchkings and 4895 on hand and ready to go as soon as my Harrell press arrives, but after that, I just may try THIS laod as well!

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only way for the Stoney point tool to ACCURATELY measure you seating depth is to modify a case fired in your rifle. Take one and have a machinest drill and thread it for the tool. You'll come out waaaayyy better. </div></div>

That's a great idea on how to improve the precision. I wonder what a machinist would charge me to do that to one case.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are going to all that trouble to make the gun shoot, get a brass catcher. No way would I allow my cases to be flung 10' or more and then put them in my dies or chamber.

Get one of those cheap fold up net laundry baskets from Wal Mart and cut one side of it out. Stand it next to your ejection port and it will catch every case that comes out. No damage and no searching for Lapua brass among all of the other things on the ground. </div></div>

THAT sounds pretty easy and inexpensive. I will try that, or a fishing net, or something similar.

Jim G

 

[Lockdown1243]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

You can't beat the SST load for a flesh killer round. I'll take a .5-.6 MOA "hunting" bullet over a SMK all day out of the 16" CL barrel. From my time with the MWS, it really likes the lighter bullets out of that short barrel. Also, be sure to put something on your brass deflector to help prevent putting large dings in your casings. The brass really hauls ass out of those guns.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only way for the Stoney point tool to ACCURATELY measure you seating depth is to modify a case fired in your rifle. Take one and have a machinest drill and thread it for the tool. You'll come out waaaayyy better. </div></div>

That's a great idea on how to improve the precision. I wonder what a machinist would charge me to do that to one case.

Jim G </div></div>

It turns out that Hornady (new owner of Stoney Point) offers this service for the asking if you are using their OAL measurement tool. I am woging to send them two fo my fired cases, and they will send back one that they have suitably modified (threaded base, and neck ID sized to allow easy insertion and sliding of a bullet).

Jim G

 

[glockdan78]

Re: Am I planning this precision reloading properly

Jim are you in austin?