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Ammo is expensive; save me $: Train my Spotter.

Jimmy D in AK

Myrmidon
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Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 14, 2010
475
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Alaska (AK)
OK, I asked Frank back in February (insert guilt trip here LOL) if TES could cover how to be a better (or at least useful) spotter. Some of what I’d like to be addressed was covered in his Ko2M recap. What remains is: spotter positioning to shooter, when to get elevated, inclement weather spotting, and whimpy projectiles (small caliber/low velocity impacts). Thanks

Jimmy D in AK
 
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More time on the glass would be one suggestion and back off the power on the spotting scope which will allow you at times to catch bullet trace and spot impacts better. Spotter can be on either side of the shooter would not suggest being directly behind but to each their own. Inclement weather is going to be tough no matter what. Small calibers can still be picked up, try backing off the power a little. Another suggestion is working on spotting yourself through your own scope by working on the fundamentals this may be more effective. I shoot alone alot of times and have to spot myself which helps when shooting competitions as well.
 
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Being directly behind the shooter does make locating and following trace a little easier, but communication ability should always be the primary consideration. A spotter does zero good if he can follow trace, but can't communicate effectively with the shooter.

Better glass does provide more clarity for spotting "whimpy projectiles", but I still have yet to find a true magic solution in the spotting scope itself. Rather I've found when possible altering targets to be lighter so they ring louder or move more freely to work much better. Hit indicator lights are another practical solution. Providing feedback on hit/miss location is great, but it gets far too much of the focus and is a small piece of the potential pie of information that can be communicated.

It's more about finding what works for your team than must have golden rules. For example I would rather have wind speed calls so I can focus on target/reticle and shooting fundamentals than to get a hit/miss call as I can see hit/miss information through the rifle scope itself if my fundamentals are solid. To that end, I actual prefer to get mirage (0, 30, 60, 90) calls rather than wind speeds. A few reasons: 1) We find mirage direction and angle is easier to read accurately than a wind flag or brush 2) mirage can be read in the wind the bullet is actually going to fly through instead of reading the wind at ground level that is blowing a poorly placed flag or some clump grass 3) I only need to know pattern of the changes and general wind speed to effectively bracket the target (caveat: inside 1 mile)
 
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More time on the glass would be one suggestion and back off the power on the spotting scope which will allow you at times to catch bullet trace and spot impacts better. Spotter can be on either side of the shooter would not suggest being directly behind but to each their own. Inclement weather is going to be tough no matter what. Small calibers can still be picked up, try backing off the power a little. Another suggestion is working on spotting yourself through your own scope by working on the fundamentals this may be more effective. I shoot alone alot of times and have to spot myself which helps when shooting competitions as well.

Walker,

Thank you for the reply, I'll be helping out with the Alaska Precision Rifle Classes Frank Galli & Marc Taylor are teaching for the next 6 days. I'll try powering down on the Swaro and see if that yields some results. I'll get back to you on the outcome. Truly appreciate your time.

Regards

-James
 
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Being directly behind the shooter does make locating and following trace a little easier, but communication ability should always be the primary consideration. A spotter does zero good if he can follow trace, but can't communicate effectively with the shooter.

Better glass does provide more clarity for spotting "whimpy projectiles", but I still have yet to find a true magic solution in the spotting scope itself. Rather I've found when possible altering targets to be lighter so they ring louder or move more freely to work much better. Hit indicator lights are another practical solution. Providing feedback on hit/miss location is great, but it gets far too much of the focus and is a small piece of the potential pie of information that can be communicated.

It's more about finding what works for your team than must have golden rules. For example I would rather have wind speed calls so I can focus on target/reticle and shooting fundamentals than to get a hit/miss call as I can see hit/miss information through the rifle scope itself if my fundamentals are solid. To that end, I actual prefer to get mirage (0, 30, 60, 90) calls rather than wind speeds. A few reasons: 1) We find mirage direction and angle is easier to read accurately than a wind flag or brush 2) mirage can be read in the wind the bullet is actually going to fly through instead of reading the wind at ground level that is blowing a poorly placed flag or some clump grass 3) I only need to know pattern of the changes and general wind speed to effectively bracket the target (caveat: inside 1 mile)

Goosed,

Great advice and I'll see what comes of it this coming week as I'm helping out with the Alaska Precision Rifle Course Frank Galli & Marc Taylor teach up here. I've got a good piece of glass (Swarovski STR-80/MRAD) so I think that's covered. I'll give the mirage over wind flag method a try and see what it yields for me (our locality may be too cool/humid... maybe not). I COMPLETELY agree on the spotter/shooter communication piece and think it's often overlooked (by me at times). Awesome to see someone on the boards preaching fundamentals of marksmanship. Anyway thank you for your time and I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards,

-James
 
I have also found that if you dial the focus in front of the target (to where the target is just a bit blurry) it helps me pick up trace better. The air that is being disrupted by bullet flight is now more in focus helping pick up the trace.

Another issue is when shooting at trans sonic ranges, you lose trace. The bullet is no longer traveling fast enough to disrupt the air. That's when real experience and time in the glass helps...

Spotting truely is an art... Guys that do it well are A HUGE ASSET... Definitely an area of growth for me!
 
I COMPLETELY agree on the spotter/shooter communication piece and think it's often overlooked

Yes, because it has to be... when your not a team or normal shooting buddies. If the spotter doesn't know the shooters come-ups or worse yet is on a different base, all they can do is call a correction by using.. the "more or less method" and estimating conversions if the base units are not matching, I don't think either is ideal, but that is all you have when you don't know the shooters.. like the RO or where one spotter is calling for a group of unknown shooters.

On one end you have guys spotting with no subtensions, guys calling miss locations all the way to guys trying to communicating with stage theatrics. For most field shooters without paper target rings to index from, spotting is about compromises, but for all, speed a simple clear comunication trumps all.

As an example of one end:
We all now what a mess it is when BR guys take their subtension-less spotters in to field and call misses by parts of plate/plates corrections or inches - then try to retranslate into corrections. Watch the first Ko2m videos and you'll see some great range shooters doing just this.. They'd be better off with a spotter on a rifle scope calling and spotting like field spotters. BUT lets take that off the discussion table because spotters without subtensions really has no place in field spotting.

As an example on the stage theatrics end:
I am sure we've all scene this maybe even tried it - The guy is really into the spotters roll and practices with his buddy.. Yep, they think"we're really low drag... now".. The theatrics goes something like .. Spotter ready, Shooter ready, Roger that, Send it, Sending.. Correction, Up .5 Right .1, Roger that, Up .5 Right .1, Spotter ready, Shooter ready, Send it, Sending... Bla bla bla..

Sure sounds super cool, but hell, there was no real information in that lengthy exchange and it takes brain resources and time while the wind has other plans.. Also, in 99.9% of the cases, why would one call a 1/10 correction if there was a miss? What, so that one might be able now just hit an edge, or miss by a 1/10 less? Really, at longer ranges and where there is wind, where you want that spotter, there is usual at least a 1/10 variability in wind shot to shot anyway. Yet, it is something I hear that all the time.

Ok, we should have some short hand language, such as "hold" means pause, not move your reticle over 1.5 mils over there etc.. but if we're with unfamiliar people, I get it, we are still going to need to say "hold on the left edge of the plate" because you find yourself with a confused shooter if you say "index on the right edge" or whatever.

My 2 cents:
For me, in the ideal situation, the spotter knows the the range and come-ups of the shooter and has the spotter's subtensions indexed (in their spotter). The return correction is simply called at the new total hold required. It is super fast and eliminates the shooter making mistakes by adding or subtracting etc. But truth be told, we are often now spotting on the rifles, so the corrections are given in the more lazy -- up/down; left/right correction only. You can't do the same with a p4fine or Gap reticle on the rifle as you might on a spotter with a geared head and grid reticle.

I have to say, trace is cool, but it is a very course one.. If all you have is thick plant life, or way out and need to look for the general impact area amongst a lot of things that might hide the splash, great.. BUT pulling back 2/3, blurring the target or whatever, just to see trace, compromises the most important part, in most cases. As such, I default to being next to the shooter for easier comunication.. unless I was in one of the first two situations.

Lastly, the spotter does have the responsibility to practice.. I'd focus more on the type of signatures, learning what skips and rollups look like that your getting near the target. If your a spotter, try to figure out were the dead spaces are. If they are any where near your targets or your targets are Silhouetted/ridged, know just how difficult spotting will be. Oh and as a spotter you learn that solids just suck..LOL
 
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