I've found myself caught up in the "group size" concept and wonder if I am expecting too much. After having my hunting rifles stolen (both would go MOA all day) I went out and picked up a Remington LTR.308. I thought this might give me the best chance for out of the box accuracy. After trying it out, I found that 1" groups were no problem with 3/4" being the norm. I managed one 7/16 group and now I am wondering if I am just expecting too much from a factory rifle? Should I be thrilled with my current results or bang my head against the wall trying to keep every group under 1/2"?
Re: An honest opinion please
You're not necessarily expecting too much. The difference between a 1.5-1 MOA gun and a 1/2 MOA gun is extreme. I've got two customs, and they are more than capable when I am. I like purpose built rifles if for only one reason. They tell me I'm the only problem. I am a .5-.7 shooter even though I've shot my share of .2-.3's. You may want to give your load a little development time. I shoot with a local police sniper and he experiences the same accuracy with FGMM, but with handloads it gets better. Remember that your LTR is also a very lightweight gun compared to most tactical rigs so it will bounce around a lot and be harder to control.
Hope some of this helps.
You're not necessarily expecting too much. The difference between a 1.5-1 MOA gun and a 1/2 MOA gun is extreme. I've got two customs, and they are more than capable when I am. I like purpose built rifles if for only one reason. They tell me I'm the only problem. I am a .5-.7 shooter even though I've shot my share of .2-.3's. You may want to give your load a little development time. I shoot with a local police sniper and he experiences the same accuracy with FGMM, but with handloads it gets better. Remember that your LTR is also a very lightweight gun compared to most tactical rigs so it will bounce around a lot and be harder to control.
Hope some of this helps.
Re: An honest opinion please
Are you doing this with hand loads or factory?
I try to keep every group I shoot as small as possible but, I don't sweat it if they are not under .5 with a factory rifle.
Any time spent shooting is better than time spent working.
Enjoy
Are you doing this with hand loads or factory?
I try to keep every group I shoot as small as possible but, I don't sweat it if they are not under .5 with a factory rifle.
Any time spent shooting is better than time spent working.
Enjoy
Re: An honest opinion please
3/4 inch groups out of a light factory rifle is doing pretty good.
Its not a bench rest gun...its a practical gun. Teeny groups belong to the bench rest guys whereas I'd say .75 moa averages are good enough for most of the comps you'll use that type of rifle for.
The real question is what distances are you shooting it at? If your getting .75 MOA at 700 yards its pretty dang good for a factory rifle I would imagine.
3/4 inch groups out of a light factory rifle is doing pretty good.
Its not a bench rest gun...its a practical gun. Teeny groups belong to the bench rest guys whereas I'd say .75 moa averages are good enough for most of the comps you'll use that type of rifle for.
The real question is what distances are you shooting it at? If your getting .75 MOA at 700 yards its pretty dang good for a factory rifle I would imagine.
Re: An honest opinion please
weapons shooting 1MOA+ has killed more than 1/4 moa has..
I had to set some standards for myself or keep wrapping rifles around trees if I shot a small group i expected it to be repeatable on demand this is a long trail of tears for a tactical shooter.
I have one fat hole capable rifles and have pulled off some less than 1" at 570 yard groups last week this is not the norm..
I strive for 1/2MOA and don't worry if its 3/4 to 1MOA on my bad days at 570 yards I worry more about if my group was where it should be over how big it is.
100 yards is no indication of concern for me except zero reference .
I test myself and equipment at distance 500-600 yards is far enough to tell what you and equipment are capable in real time use.
custom or factory there are 1/4MOA and worse ..
custom doesn't give automatic immunity to a shooter you still must to do the job..
weapons shooting 1MOA+ has killed more than 1/4 moa has..
I had to set some standards for myself or keep wrapping rifles around trees if I shot a small group i expected it to be repeatable on demand this is a long trail of tears for a tactical shooter.
I have one fat hole capable rifles and have pulled off some less than 1" at 570 yard groups last week this is not the norm..
I strive for 1/2MOA and don't worry if its 3/4 to 1MOA on my bad days at 570 yards I worry more about if my group was where it should be over how big it is.
100 yards is no indication of concern for me except zero reference .
I test myself and equipment at distance 500-600 yards is far enough to tell what you and equipment are capable in real time use.
custom or factory there are 1/4MOA and worse ..
custom doesn't give automatic immunity to a shooter you still must to do the job..
Re: An honest opinion please
You first need to figure out what your goal is.
If you are looking for benchrest style .001" groups then you need a full custom and learn to fire the rifle with only the pad of your finger.
If you are looking for practical accuracy then your LTR is just fine. If you are getting consistent 3/4 MOA groups out of it utilizing perfect form and applying the fundamentals each time, then you may be using all the rifle has to offer. If that's not good enough for you, then take it to a custom smith and have him work it over until it's capable of better. HOWEVER I would make sure that before you go to that extent that YOU are capable of better.
For me, a 3/4 MOA rifle will do what I need it to do. I like to shoot itty-bitty groups, but it's not necessary for marksmanship training or work.
All I need for marksmanship training is enough accuracty to be able to tell if the wild shot was a result of my input.
You first need to figure out what your goal is.
If you are looking for benchrest style .001" groups then you need a full custom and learn to fire the rifle with only the pad of your finger.
If you are looking for practical accuracy then your LTR is just fine. If you are getting consistent 3/4 MOA groups out of it utilizing perfect form and applying the fundamentals each time, then you may be using all the rifle has to offer. If that's not good enough for you, then take it to a custom smith and have him work it over until it's capable of better. HOWEVER I would make sure that before you go to that extent that YOU are capable of better.
For me, a 3/4 MOA rifle will do what I need it to do. I like to shoot itty-bitty groups, but it's not necessary for marksmanship training or work.
All I need for marksmanship training is enough accuracty to be able to tell if the wild shot was a result of my input.
Re: An honest opinion please
Thank you gentlemen. I was beginning to believe that I was expecting too much and you have proved my point. To date, all of my shooting has been at 100 yds. (I still need to extend my range but clearing brush is something I'll put off until pure guilt forces me to work on it) I will be the first to acknowledge that my shooting skill isn't what it use to be but it is always nice to know that a rifle will shoot better than I can.
All of my shooting is done with handloads (I need to try some Fed. Match just as a baseline reference) but to be honest, as long as society stays in place, this will just be a deer gun.
Thank you gentlemen. I was beginning to believe that I was expecting too much and you have proved my point. To date, all of my shooting has been at 100 yds. (I still need to extend my range but clearing brush is something I'll put off until pure guilt forces me to work on it) I will be the first to acknowledge that my shooting skill isn't what it use to be but it is always nice to know that a rifle will shoot better than I can.
All of my shooting is done with handloads (I need to try some Fed. Match just as a baseline reference) but to be honest, as long as society stays in place, this will just be a deer gun.
Re: An honest opinion please
I would suggest doing a few things to simplify your ability to shoot small.
I would print some X's using a large type style with a word processor program. Then adjust the scope to shoot about an inch low. This allows you to nest the crosshairs at the precise intersection of the X, and continue shooting without wiping out your aiming point. This simple technique could shrink your groups by quite a bit. Or, demonstrate you're already shooting to the rifle/ammo's full potential if it doesn't. But I think it will, at least somewhat.
Greg
I would suggest doing a few things to simplify your ability to shoot small.
I would print some X's using a large type style with a word processor program. Then adjust the scope to shoot about an inch low. This allows you to nest the crosshairs at the precise intersection of the X, and continue shooting without wiping out your aiming point. This simple technique could shrink your groups by quite a bit. Or, demonstrate you're already shooting to the rifle/ammo's full potential if it doesn't. But I think it will, at least somewhat.
Greg
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