The Loyal Legions die for their country....
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www.marinecorpstimes.com
Here are the names of the Marine killed and those presumed dead after Corps AAV accident
Two Marines remain hospitalized.
www.marinecorpstimes.com - Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
I hated riding in AAV's. They're death traps with all the individual gear stacked and tangled together everyone had.
I never rode in one but I get the heebie jeebies looking at them wallowing in the sea with the top hatch open on their way to the beach.
I don't know how anyone inside can get out alive if one got swamped or got holed in any way.
Even on land operations it sucked. I thank God I never got nailed by an IED or similar. The ensuing shitshow would have been a nightmare on earth.
As an old Amtracker; this is horrible, but it's not news.
My ride was the older LVTP5A1. That little step in front is for the 30cal barbette gunner to stand on.
Note that both of these pics are of models, but they are dead nutz accurate, too. The NVA could put a round through both, (aluminum) sides with a 7.62x54R. We genuinely appreciated their preference for the x39. We carried tapered wooden pegs to drive into bullet holes and prevent leaks.
We tried being smarter back in the day; we rode on top, even when fording the Dong Ha River.
I essence, we were the M113 ACAV's Bigger Brother.
Greg - 1st Tracs Cua Viet June -Nov 1967; also 11th Engr, Bn. Dong Ha Nov 1966-June 67, and TDY 12th Mar Rgt, Camp Carroll Spring Monsoon 1967.
My ride was the older LVTP5A1. That little step in front is for the 30cal barbette gunner to stand on.
Note that both of these pics are of models, but they are dead nutz accurate, too. The NVA could put a round through both, (aluminum) sides with a 7.62x54R. We genuinely appreciated their preference for the x39. We carried tapered wooden pegs to drive into bullet holes and prevent leaks.
We tried being smarter back in the day; we rode on top, even when fording the Dong Ha River.
I essence, we were the M113 ACAV's Bigger Brother.
Greg - 1st Tracs Cua Viet June -Nov 1967; also 11th Engr, Bn. Dong Ha Nov 1966-June 67, and TDY 12th Mar Rgt, Camp Carroll Spring Monsoon 1967.
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Sounds as if the bilge pumps weren't working. That's a horrible way to go.
Two types of failure its seems with these things in my unlearned existence.
They come out of the well deck and plummet like a rock.
They get out and underway than its realized they are in trouble and peeps start to unass the vehicle.
Machines never know when they will decide to fail.
They come out of the well deck and plummet like a rock.
They get out and underway than its realized they are in trouble and peeps start to unass the vehicle.
Machines never know when they will decide to fail.
21 years as an AAV guy off and on ( hence the "1833" in my screen name).
They sink occasionally. Usually you get a good bit if warning before it happens, and much more often than not you can get them to land/ship before they do. Contrary to what one might think though, they don't just up and sink...there are trigger points for evacuation...and even a dead in the water AAV that is taking on water will make it for quite a few minutes before it goes under.
Why they took casualties and sank that quickly is up for speculation for a while. I'll not add my .02 until I hear more in the community (even though I'm retired we keep tight).
Last casualty I know of before this was several years ago at the schoolhouse where a student entered the water with the hand throttle engaged and submarine'd it. The instructor got everyone out but himself...damn hero.
They sink occasionally. Usually you get a good bit if warning before it happens, and much more often than not you can get them to land/ship before they do. Contrary to what one might think though, they don't just up and sink...there are trigger points for evacuation...and even a dead in the water AAV that is taking on water will make it for quite a few minutes before it goes under.
Why they took casualties and sank that quickly is up for speculation for a while. I'll not add my .02 until I hear more in the community (even though I'm retired we keep tight).
Last casualty I know of before this was several years ago at the schoolhouse where a student entered the water with the hand throttle engaged and submarine'd it. The instructor got everyone out but himself...damn hero.
As an old Amtracker; this is horrible, but it's not news.
My ride was the older LVTP5A1. That little step in front is for the 30cal barbette gunner to stand on.
Note that both of these pics are of models, but they are dead nutz accurate, too. The NVA could put a round through both, (aluminum) sides with a 7.62x54R. We genuinely appreciated their preference for the x39. We carried tapered wooden pegs to drive into bullet holes and prevent leaks.
We tried being smarter back in the day; we rode on top, even when fording the Dong Ha River.
I essence, we were the M113 ACAV's Bigger Brother.
Greg - 1st Tracs Cua Viet June -Nov 1967; also 11th Engr, Bn. Dong Ha Nov 1966-June 67, and TDY 12th Mar Rgt, Camp Carroll Spring Monsoon 1967.
Well shit Greg. I knew you were cool...i just didn't know why...YAT YAS.
YAT YAS back atcha.
Greg, any experience with the M114 ?As an old Amtracker; this is horrible, but it's not news.
My ride was the older LVTP5A1. That little step in front is for the 30cal barbette gunner to stand on.
Note that both of these pics are of models, but they are dead nutz accurate, too. The NVA could put a round through both, (aluminum) sides with a 7.62x54R. We genuinely appreciated their preference for the x39. We carried tapered wooden pegs to drive into bullet holes and prevent leaks.
We tried being smarter back in the day; we rode on top, even when fording the Dong Ha River.
I essence, we were the M113 ACAV's Bigger Brother.
Greg - 1st Tracs Cua Viet June -Nov 1967; also 11th Engr, Bn. Dong Ha Nov 1966-June 67, and TDY 12th Mar Rgt, Camp Carroll Spring Monsoon 1967.
I read an article today about the vehicles encountering rough seas beyond the surf zone...
Each AAV has about a 3' square opening in the front on top, called the intake plenum. Its main purpose is to suck in tremendous amounts of air to help keep the engine cool on land (that's as brief as I can make it) There is a hydraulic door that closes when the vehicle is in water mode, as the 30 gallons of coolant is circulated across the bottom of the hull, essentially being cooled by contact with the sea (and that's why we call it the 'contact cooler').
Water pressure onto the top of the vehicle can actually be heavy enough to open that door to the intake plenum...especially if there is a hydraulic issue (no pressure to keep the door up then among other things).
The bilge pumps are rated to pump out 430 GPM if everything is working correctly, but if there is a hydraulic issue then you can scrub 230 GPM off as two of the bilge pumps are hydraulic and two electric.
Several *towed* AAVs have been sunk because they were pulled nose first through the water with no hydraulic pressure to keep the door closed on the intake plenum.
A Marine with a head injury that proved fatal would seem most likely from a cargo hatch across the top. With extra armor (EAAK) they also have extra strong springs attached...I have a fried who has little use of his hand 20 years later after a cargo hatch closed on it...and he's lucky it didn't cut his hand in two. The wound was brutal when it happened. Perhaps the Marine got his head caught in a slamming hatch in rough seas as he tried to eagress out the top (crew transfer SOP) without his helmet on? It takes two dudes to open one. That's how strong/heavy they are. Purely a guess.
Since reports of gross negligence aren't floating around, I'm going to assume that this was close to a perfect storm of sorts. Evidence is so deep and been down for so long already that unless there is an obvious broken part when they get it to the surface, all we'll have to go on is personal accounts.
I don't know what the sea state was either...we have that and a modified surf index to use to let us know if it's safe to enter the water.
Each AAV has about a 3' square opening in the front on top, called the intake plenum. Its main purpose is to suck in tremendous amounts of air to help keep the engine cool on land (that's as brief as I can make it) There is a hydraulic door that closes when the vehicle is in water mode, as the 30 gallons of coolant is circulated across the bottom of the hull, essentially being cooled by contact with the sea (and that's why we call it the 'contact cooler').
Water pressure onto the top of the vehicle can actually be heavy enough to open that door to the intake plenum...especially if there is a hydraulic issue (no pressure to keep the door up then among other things).
The bilge pumps are rated to pump out 430 GPM if everything is working correctly, but if there is a hydraulic issue then you can scrub 230 GPM off as two of the bilge pumps are hydraulic and two electric.
Several *towed* AAVs have been sunk because they were pulled nose first through the water with no hydraulic pressure to keep the door closed on the intake plenum.
A Marine with a head injury that proved fatal would seem most likely from a cargo hatch across the top. With extra armor (EAAK) they also have extra strong springs attached...I have a fried who has little use of his hand 20 years later after a cargo hatch closed on it...and he's lucky it didn't cut his hand in two. The wound was brutal when it happened. Perhaps the Marine got his head caught in a slamming hatch in rough seas as he tried to eagress out the top (crew transfer SOP) without his helmet on? It takes two dudes to open one. That's how strong/heavy they are. Purely a guess.
Since reports of gross negligence aren't floating around, I'm going to assume that this was close to a perfect storm of sorts. Evidence is so deep and been down for so long already that unless there is an obvious broken part when they get it to the surface, all we'll have to go on is personal accounts.
I don't know what the sea state was either...we have that and a modified surf index to use to let us know if it's safe to enter the water.
Rest in peace warriors, Semper Fi!
Going off the description of being able to be effectively blown into two pieces by a land mine, I don't think I'd have wanted to be in one. Which seems to be what the military said anyway because they got shelved.
I recall reading about some kind of APC or amphibious vehicle or some such during the 60s and 70s that was very like a M113 only bigger and, I think, had a full roof on top or had dorsal hatches which made it little more than tracked coffin because its armor wasn't up to snuff and the only way out could be jammed easily. I may be misremembering, however.
The Trac was found in about 350ft of water.
Remains have been removed for the rendering of honors, and the vehicle is being recovered.
Semper Fi, Brothers. RIP
O/T, researching the M114, it turns out to have been a failed experiment; a lower lighter weight version of the M113, powered by a Chev 283, intended as a scout vehicle, and as described above; incapable of surviving a land mine explosion intact. Abrams declared them inadequate and ordered them removed form the the US Army inventory, but it took several years before it could be replaced, due to funding shortfalls. Proxmired again!
My favorite most interesting armored vehicle was the M-50 Ontos.
As it happened, during Boot Camp, I was assigned to paint the Platoon Flag. It showed an Ontos about to roll over the top of the observer.
Greg
Remains have been removed for the rendering of honors, and the vehicle is being recovered.
Semper Fi, Brothers. RIP
O/T, researching the M114, it turns out to have been a failed experiment; a lower lighter weight version of the M113, powered by a Chev 283, intended as a scout vehicle, and as described above; incapable of surviving a land mine explosion intact. Abrams declared them inadequate and ordered them removed form the the US Army inventory, but it took several years before it could be replaced, due to funding shortfalls. Proxmired again!
My favorite most interesting armored vehicle was the M-50 Ontos.
As it happened, during Boot Camp, I was assigned to paint the Platoon Flag. It showed an Ontos about to roll over the top of the observer.
Greg
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Thankfully only rode on top,,in a desert.
Dusty,,but safe.
We did amphib assults,,but we rode LCAC.
Had a new Avon tied down,, watched it come up off deck. Yup through prop.
Not the first to go down. Sucks
Dusty,,but safe.
We did amphib assults,,but we rode LCAC.
Had a new Avon tied down,, watched it come up off deck. Yup through prop.
Not the first to go down. Sucks
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I got 'woke' when I under stood the meaning of the term..."Expendable combat unit."
RIP, brothers.
I can tell you from personal experience doing amphibious assault rehearsals onto San Clemente Island, the seas can be either glass, or 3-5 foot rolling swells.
People who came up with that term and think in those terms "Expendable Combat Unit " should be dialed in fuck hold overs.
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